Thoughts and questions about the Empire under Palpatine

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Mange
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Thoughts and questions about the Empire under Palpatine

Post by Mange »

With the premiere of the final (?) Star Wars movie ever coming closer and closer, I had some random thoughts about the Empire under Palpatine's reign that I thought could be condensed into one thread. To my knowledge, not very much has been said about life in the Empire in various canon sources, so this is a topic for speculation. I'm sorry if this has been covered before, this is also a bit long-winded (I'm pretty sure this is overanalyzing and perhaps I'm also overcomplicating things), so please bear with me. Perhaps this is outright stupid and doesn't belong in the forums, in that case I'm truly sorry.

In TPM and AOTC we learned how the Republic is organized and that it didn't possess any military forces on its own (except for perhaps some sort of police/customs for patrolling space and the Senate Guard) until Supreme Chancellor Palpatine declared in the Senate that he would create a Grand Army of the Republic. There weren't any need for a military since there were no internal or external threats and because of the Republic being under the protection of the Jedi Order. Thus, every member system must have had its own military (if there was need for one), such as the small volonteer force on Naboo. We don't know yet exactly how Palpatine becomes Emperor, we know that it most likely will happen in Revenge of the Sith, but when Palpatine received emergency powers in AOTC, it was supported by the majority of the Senate. It's been known for years that certain senators such as Bail Organa of Alderaan and Mon Mothma of Chandrila opposed Palpatine's declaration of Emperor and instigated a rebellion. The organization behind this rebellion, known as the Alliance to Restore the Republic (or simply the Alliance) must have been dependent on the planetary defense forces that the different member worlds of the Alliance had at their disposal and ships that either was stolen or bought through illegal channels. At any rate, these forces must have been very, very weak compared with the resources the emerging Empire must have had at their disposal when the Clone War ended. When the Rebellion came into full swing, it would have been easy for the Empire to use propaganda as an efficient tool to portray the members and supporters of the Alliance as terrorists, and perhaps even stage violent acts and lay the blame on the Alliance.
I have a few questions for discussion.

1. If a majority of the population in the emerging Empire supported Palpatine's bid to become Emperor, why the need for a massive war machine?

2. It has been established that the Republic encompassed almost the entire SW galaxy, then what was the Empire's goals (except to work as a tool to help the Sith getting revenge)? Was the goal simply to integrate the systems that previously wasn't part of the Republic and consolidate its hold without further expansion, or were there more ambitious goals than that?

Connected to this is the classical issue, why is the Empire evil (besides the fact that it's controlled by an evil Dark Lord of the Sith)? There are some allusions made in the Star Wars novelization. I only own a pair of Swedish translations of the novelization (one from '77 and one recent), so I can't quote, but as Luke approaches the Death Star in the opening stages of the Battle of Yavin, Luke is thinking on the injustices and disappearances that took place in the Empire. It's also possible to draw some speculative conclusions on the reactions by the news that the Emperor dissolved the Imperial Senate and decentralized the government so that the local governors was given direct control. With the Imperial Senate dissolved, it seems as if the sectors and the various systems lost all influence on their local politics, and became dependant on the nature of the Imperial governor, but would the ordinary citizen of the Empire care about this? From the Dark Empire Sourcebook (WEG-material I know, but still):
Far from the watchful eye of the Empire and its clean, orderly police-state planets, there is a totally different world not patrolled by armed and armored troops, lacking curfews and weapons detectors and sentry droids. Most Imperial citizens never enter this world, moving only in hermetically sealed, environmentally sculpted corridors and mallplexes. But if they left behind their safe luxury liner world for a while, they would see a unique environment with its own rules.
The above passage describes almost an Utopia (for the more civilized systems perhaps). The Imperial society is safe, although there are restrictions in place, and above all, orderly. The Empire strives for order. If the population in an orderly society is subjected to Imperial propaganda about the Rebellion, wouldn't it seem as if the Alliance strives for chaos?

I hope there are some novels published after the premiere of Revenge of the Sith that expands on the Empire during Palpatine's reign. Again, I'm not very well versed in the EU, so I don't know what's been covered there.
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Re: Thoughts and questions about the Empire under Palpatine

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

Mange the Swede wrote:1. If a majority of the population in the emerging Empire supported Palpatine's bid to become Emperor, why the need for a massive war machine?
So that he could eliminate any enemy threat on a whim, such as the Rebellion. Also, Palpatine was aware of extragalactic threats of the Ssi-Ruuk, and perhaps the Yuuzhan Vong, amongst other things, due to the capture and integration of the Chiss exile Mitth'raw'nuruodo into the Empire.
2. It has been established that the Republic encompassed almost the entire SW galaxy, then what was the Empire's goals (except to work as a tool to help the Sith getting revenge)? Was the goal simply to integrate the systems that previously wasn't part of the Republic and consolidate its hold without further expansion, or were there more ambitious goals than that?
From what I understand, the Empire's goals in its initial phase was to bring order to the galaxy and crush any threats to Palpatine's power. Once all that was in order, it would enter its next phase, which was described in Dark Empire: The Emperor would use his darkside magic to feed off the life energy of a galaxy of slaves; then he would live forever as a supreme demi-god of sorts.
The above passage describes almost an Utopia (for the more civilized systems perhaps). The Imperial society is safe, although there are restrictions in place, and above all, orderly. The Empire strives for order. If the population in an orderly society is subjected to Imperial propaganda about the Rebellion, wouldn't it seem as if the Alliance strives for chaos?
The entire galaxy isn't bombarded with Imperial propaganda. Perhaps in the Core Worlds and closer sectors to the Imperial Capital, but not in outlying regions, where most of the Rebels' support came from, like Tatooine and Mon Calamari; such areas that held little interest to the Empire.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

The permanent occupation fleet is to prevent any contender beneath Palpatine from rising to importance: the strategic fleets of the Empire could and did neutralise any Moff Governor or admiral who became too...independent.
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Re: Thoughts and questions about the Empire under Palpatine

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1. If a majority of the population in the emerging Empire supported Palpatine's bid to become Emperor, why the need for a massive war machine?
So that he could eliminate any enemy threat on a whim, such as the Rebellion. Also, Palpatine was aware of extragalactic threats of the Ssi-Ruuk, and perhaps the Yuuzhan Vong, amongst other things, due to the capture and integration of the Chiss exile Mitth'raw'nuruodo into the Empire.
Ok, fair enough.
2. It has been established that the Republic encompassed almost the entire SW galaxy, then what was the Empire's goals (except to work as a tool to help the Sith getting revenge)? Was the goal simply to integrate the systems that previously wasn't part of the Republic and consolidate its hold without further expansion, or were there more ambitious goals than that?
From what I understand, the Empire's goals in its initial phase was to bring order to the galaxy and crush any threats to Palpatine's power. Once all that was in order, it would enter its next phase, which was described in Dark Empire: The Emperor would use his darkside magic to feed off the life energy of a galaxy of slaves; then he would live forever as a supreme demi-god of sorts.
That sounds plausible, given the nature of the Dark Side of the Force.
The above passage describes almost an Utopia (for the more civilized systems perhaps). The Imperial society is safe, although there are restrictions in place, and above all, orderly. The Empire strives for order. If the population in an orderly society is subjected to Imperial propaganda about the Rebellion, wouldn't it seem as if the Alliance strives for chaos?
The entire galaxy isn't bombarded with Imperial propaganda. Perhaps in the Core Worlds and closer sectors to the Imperial Capital, but not in outlying regions, where most of the Rebels' support came from, like Tatooine and Mon Calamari; such areas that held little interest to the Empire.
My thought exactly. I doubt that this is the case in the Outer Rim.
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Re: Thoughts and questions about the Empire under Palpatine

Post by vakundok »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:The entire galaxy isn't bombarded with Imperial propaganda. Perhaps in the Core Worlds and closer sectors to the Imperial Capital, but not in outlying regions, where most of the Rebels' support came from, like Tatooine and Mon Calamari; such areas that held little interest to the Empire.
As I remember, Biggs told Luke about them (the farmers on Tatooine) being misled by imperial propaganda (official news channels or something).
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Re: Thoughts and questions about the Empire under Palpatine

Post by JME2 »

vakundok wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:The entire galaxy isn't bombarded with Imperial propaganda. Perhaps in the Core Worlds and closer sectors to the Imperial Capital, but not in outlying regions, where most of the Rebels' support came from, like Tatooine and Mon Calamari; such areas that held little interest to the Empire.
As I remember, Biggs told Luke about them (the farmers on Tatooine) being misled by imperial propaganda (official news channels or something).
Plus Mara has made note on more than one ocassion (most recently, TUF) that COMPNOR was strongest and most influential in the Core worlds. Plus, the Outer Rim really wouldn't buy any of it; the OR fucked them over for years, the Empire ignored them, and the NR practically sacrificed a good wedge of the Rim to the Vong.
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Post by Solauren »

Also, Palpatine had plans to invader and conquer other galaxies
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Post by Jalinth »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The permanent occupation fleet is to prevent any contender beneath Palpatine from rising to importance: the strategic fleets of the Empire could and did neutralise any Moff Governor or admiral who became too...independent.
I wonder what back doors the Emperor developed to "tame" the Death Star should Tarkin (or his replacement) get too ambitious. Some type of self-destruct activated by a secret code? A "shut off" code that essentially leaves the DS an orbiting hulk. Any other ways?

He either had to do this or be prepared to permanently station Vader on the DS. Otherwise, Tarkin might have decided that "Emperor Tarkin" sounded better - drop by Coruscant, give it a super-laser kiss, then declare that you're the successor. (I realize this plan is grossly lacking, but the Emperor would likely have some way to stop this type of plan. After all, you can't rule forever if your body is hurtling through space).
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Post by JME2 »

Jalinth wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The permanent occupation fleet is to prevent any contender beneath Palpatine from rising to importance: the strategic fleets of the Empire could and did neutralise any Moff Governor or admiral who became too...independent.
I wonder what back doors the Emperor developed to "tame" the Death Star should Tarkin (or his replacement) get too ambitious. Some type of self-destruct activated by a secret code? A "shut off" code that essentially leaves the DS an orbiting hulk. Any other ways?

He either had to do this or be prepared to permanently station Vader on the DS. Otherwise, Tarkin might have decided that "Emperor Tarkin" sounded better - drop by Coruscant, give it a super-laser kiss, then declare that you're the successor. (I realize this plan is grossly lacking, but the Emperor would likely have some way to stop this type of plan. After all, you can't rule forever if your body is hurtling through space).
The original EGTWAT states that, in addition to the elaborate safeguards on the station, the Emperor would assign an extension of his will/trusted advisor to maintain his control over the station -- in the case of the DS1, obviosuly Vade.r Would he have been stationed there following the destruction of Yavin -- probably.
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Post by Spice Runner »

1. If a majority of the population in the emerging Empire supported Palpatine's bid to become Emperor, why the need for a massive war machine?
As others have said the military was used to intimidate and conquer other powers such as the ssi ruuk (sp?) and whatever was in the unknown regions. I think also that Palpatine planned to expand the empire perpetually. Eventually the massive war machine would be sent out to conquer other galaxies. But then later the rebellion took up the Imperial military's energy and focus.
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Post by Publius »

Unfortunately, there is little in the canonical films and the Expanded Universe describing life in the Galactic Empire for the average citizen, although the rare glimpses here and there afforded by the role-playing materials of West End Games allow one to piece together a surprising picture of such everyday life. This author's comments on that subject may be found in the short essay "De Vitas Civitum Imperii," found in the Examinations section of Mr. Fortner's site. Suffice it to say that the Galactic Empire, as of the era of the films, is a negative Utopia rather than a dystopia.

In the first place, it is possible to say that the Empire does not in fact take a direct hand in the government of the vast majority of its subject worlds. MAJ Hextrophon, the fictitious author of the Imperial Sourcebook records the following in chapter one, "A Primer on Imperial Power":
The Empire has not completely altered the governments of hundreds of thousands of worlds. Such a task would be impractical. The Emperor has left it to his advisors to modify the portions of a planetary government, be it government procedure or members of the ruling body, to conform to the will of the Empire. Less than one planet in 80 has been so modified.

The preferred option is to let a planet run itself much as it has for years, but maintaining a visible Imperial presence so that the rulers know who their ultimate master is. The Empire also encourages the constituent planets to reform their own governments to conform to the Imperial method. In this way, individual worlds eliminate laws and freedoms, replacing them with doctrines and statutes more in line with Imperial edicts.
A somewhat similar gubernatorial arrangement is described in Goroth: Slave of the Empire, although that was more of a puppet state system established because Goroth Prime was not officially a part of the Galactic Empire. In any case, one is reminded of the state of affairs in first century Judaea, where a token military presence under an Imperial praefectus in Jerusalem served to remind the local rulers - viz., the Sanhedrin - that the Imperial eye was indeed watching.

The Mussolini-like worlds described by the Dark Empire Sourcebook - where trains always arrive on time - must surely be in the Core Worlds, the Colonies, and the Expansion Region, and perhaps also in the Inner Rim; the large majority of Imperial citizens would live in these regions. Per the Imperial Sourcebook, one might conclude that these conditions are not in fact imposed by the Galactic Empire, but rather by the Quisling governments of those states themselves.

This comfortable, insulated life would likely predispose most Imperial citizens to be at least passive supporters of Imperial rule. Not to mention that the Galactic Emperor is perceived popularly a beloved figure, the heroic and noble statesman who brought order and stability to a chaotic galaxy after the horrors of the Clone Wars, which the Galactic Emperor took advantage of by divorcing his person from the day to day operations of the Galactic Empire; rather than blaming the revered Galactic Emperor for Imperial viciousness and brutality, it is the Moff Governors, Government ministers, and other political leadership who will inevitably take the fall.

MAJ Hextrophon writes that the Imperial State "intervenes in the politics of a single world with an arrogance new to the governed peoples", and that "these changes have created resentment on some worlds, but the resentment is rarely cause enough for significant support of the Rebellion." There is an evident reluctance to have to do with a revolutionary movement, perhaps as the very concept has been permanently tainted by memories of the Secessionist movement and the ensuing Clone Wars with the Confederacy of Independent Systems.

However, as MAJ Hextrophon points out, life in the Galactic Empire is not uniform. The Imperial State's direct influence in one's life is relative to one's location, with the least direct influence generally in the Core Worlds and the Outer Rim Territories. Nevertheless, support for the Galactic Empire tends to grow stronger as one heads Core-ward, where MAJ Hextrophon says (in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook) "there is still much skepticism concerning the Rebellion," which is viewed by many as "brigands, pirates and anarchists".

Indeed, because of the Imperial State's monopoly on the HoloNet and probable tight regulation of subspace communications networks, Imperial propagandists were generally successful at portraying the Rebellion as "pirates, criminals, and anarchists, intent upon overthrowing the Empire for personal gain," as documented by MAJ Hextrophon in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook.

Whence, then, does support for the rebel Alliance come? MAJ Hextrophon makes a few interesting remarks in the Rebel Alliance text:
Resources, mostly anonymous untraceable "donations" from wealthy families and corporations, were quietly and efficiently gathered. Ships were purchased through dummy corporations, or "stolen" from friendly governments. Recruitment and training organizations were placed on populated planets. Safe worlds were set up. Within a few short years, the Alliance was recognizably the same organization it is today.
Soon after the Declaration was distributed, several systems openly declared their allegiance to the Alliance. This was valiant, but foolish — Mothma attempted to stop them but was too late. Imperial response was swift and harsh, and within weeks all the "Secession Worlds" were suppressed. However, in their few weeks of freedom, the planets were able to transfer much of their weaponry, resources and manpower off-world, into the hands of the Alliance.
Particularly impressionable are the outlying systems, those not yet fully under the domination of the Empire. The Empire applies a lot of political pressure against these systems, using the threat of force to keep them in line. Most systems, knowing the awesome fleets at the Emperor's command and the relatively puny forces of the Alliance, used to see no option but to surrender to the Empire without a battle.

Now, however, the Alliance's stirring victory has given them new backbone. Even if they are not willing to absolutely cast their lot in with the Alliance, they are also less willing to cave in to pressure from the Empire. More importantly. many are surreptitiously aiding the Rebellion, supplying much-needed money, equipment, and soldiers.
Within the Core systems, the Alliance has no allies; in fact, it has few political connections at all. Even if a planetary governor or Moff were to wish to open discussions with the Alliance, their staffs are usually riddled with Imperial Security Bureau agents, making any kind of contact extremely risky for both sides. The huge businesses of the galaxy are even more tightly monitored. Consequently, the Rebellion looks to the outlying systems, underground organizations and nomadic free-traders for political support. Further complicating the diplomatic picture is the Alliance's reputation. The Imperial propagandists have been most effective at portraying the Alliance as a terrorist group, making many planetary and system leaders more than a little hesitant about opening discussions with them. The Alliance Ministry of Education is dedicated to altering that image through counter-propaganda, a task which has been made easier by the Empire's genocide at Alderaan.

Though there are many systems which are generally sympathetic to the Alliance, only a few are willing to openly support it, the others effectively cowed by fear of Imperial retribution. This is not unjustified — If the Empire discovers that a planet has been actively assisting the Alliance, It uses the harshest means at its disposal to punish the planet — witness again Alderaan.
The rebel Alliance is, in short, a state-sponsored terrorist group, largely sustained secretly by rogue states within the Galactic Empire. Although it enjoys widespread theoretical support, actual supporters of the Rebellion remain in the minority, as evidenced by the size of the rebel forces massed for the strike at Endor, which consisted of the entire rebel Alliance if one takes the novelization of Return of the Jedi literally.

Note that the Imperial State does in fact actively promote a healthy mistrust of the rebel Alliance amongst its member states:
Special missions forces have been pressed into "political gain operations" (PGOs) with increasing frequency. Special mission troopers call them "straw man" operations. PGOs are terrorist missions held on worlds where native sympathies vacillate between the Empire and the Rebellion.

In a typical PGO, the special missions troops stage several terrorist attacks, executed in a manner which would suggest that political factions native to the world could have produced the attacks.

Eventually some political faction will appeal to the planetary governor for help. The governor will declare martial law, asking for help from the fleet. The help arrives in the form of hundreds or thousands of additional troops. These troops operate on "new intelligence," rounding up scores of suspected or known Rebel sympathizers for imprisonment or execution. Once the Rebels are out of the way the attacks cease, reinforcing the impression that the Rebellion indeed sponsored the attacks. The special missions force then moves on to another world.
Dialogue from the novelization of A New Hope further suggests that Imperial agents may in fact pose as rebel Alliance recruiters. The Imperial State worked to erode the tenuous support for the rebel Alliance not only by propaganda but also by covert and clandestine operations to portray the rebel Alliance as dangerous terrorists and anarchical criminals.

The ultimate intention of the Galactic Empire can be divined from the evidence of the Expanded Universe, and it is indeed a fascinating picture of malignant narcissism in its most extreme form.

As described by Dr. Sam Vaknin in Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited, narcissism is "a pattern of traits and behaviors which signify infatuation and obsession with one's self to the exclusion of all others and the egotistic and ruthless pursuit of one's gratification, dominance and ambition"; psychoanalyst Dr. Otto Kernberg describes malignant narcissism as
the most severe forms of it — in which there is a particular malignant development that consists of a return to primitive aggression and an idealization of the self as an aggressive self with power over others. This pathological idealization of the self as an aggressive self clinically is called "malignant narcissism." And this is very much connected with evil and with a number of clinical forms that evil takes, such as the pleasure and enjoyment in controlling others, in making them suffer, in destroying them, or the casual pleasure in using others' trust and confidence and love to exploit them and to destroy them. That's the real evil — that synthesis between pathological narcissism and primitive aggression. And we find that at the level of individuals and in groups as well. Sometimes we find it in organizations. We find it in certain fundamentalist ideologies; we find it in certain aspects of mass psychology. That's the real evil.
The structure of the Galactic Empire reflects a variety of statist inclinations, ranging from paternalism to authoritarianism to totalitarianism. The Imperial Senate, composed at least of a working Monarchist majority, would probably tend toward a sort of "Father Knows Best" ideology (especially given that many Imperial Senators would represent the very Mussolinified worlds described by the Dark Empire Sourcebook); the aristocracy and no doubt a large part of the military-industrial complex lean toward a Franquist conception of the state and its r le; and then there is COMPNOR, for whom the Duce's maxim "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State" may as well have been custom-made.

Each of these ideologies was part of something much larger, a much grander plan than any of them might have realized. The history of the Galactic Emperor reveals him to be a consummate manipulator of others, who uses their own intentions and actions to further his goals, often without their realization of the fact. The fact of the matter is that the groundwork for his domination of the Republican Government was already in place when he was elected Supreme Chancellor; his corporate, political, and social connections both as Senator Palpatine and as Darth Sidious were more than adequate to assure him total control of the galactic government before he even claimed it. In essence, the time between The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith was not to accumulate power for himself, but rather to acclimate the galaxy to his exercise of it.

This strategy, similar to the approach used by COL Hamilton in establishing a viable financial structure for the United States, consisted of introducing small, seemingly innocuous measures which aroused no ire from opponents, and a handful of controversial measures; once combined, they linked together to form a chain too strong to be broken by the political opposition once it was realized that the chain did in fact exist.

Much the same sort of strategy is in use with regards to the ideologies of the Imperial leadership. The ultimate form of the Galactic Empire is present in embryonic form within it, doubtlessly being slowly and carefully cultivated by the Galactic Emperor, without anyone being the wiser.

The pristine "luxury liner" worlds are surely intended as an early stage of transformation into idyllic paradisaical worlds like Byss, whose 19.8 billions of inhabitants were slowly being absorbed into the Galactic Emperor himself, by means of "drain life essence", according to the very same Dark Empire Sourcebook. In such worlds, the population are already accustomed to obedience to the "face and voice of Authority," a central tenet to the Galactic Emperor's The Weakness of Inferiors, which is based on the doctrine of "control, without violence."

What is especially significant about this is that The New Essential Guide to Characters states that this was a synthesis of Sith philosophy with the political science work published by Senator Palpatine earlier in his career, work that was extremely well-received among the intelligentsia and academia, and made into standard texts at a number of the galaxy's most prestigious universities - in other words, the unadulterated doctrine of the Galactic Emperor was earlier introduced to and accepted by the galaxy, albeit in a more readily digestible form.

One of the key elements of the ultimate form of the Galactic Empire, not yet fully integrated into the existing framework, was the Galactic Emperor's dark side adepts. These practitioners of the dark side of the Force, who were also a part of the Galactic Emperor's exhaustive study of the Force in all its manifestations, are described by the Dark Empire Sourcebook as follows:
While none of them were permitted to advance far compared to Palpatine's own level of power, they did become quite powerful indeed. Some were taught ways of combat and made into Dark Jedi. Others joined the elite of Imperial functionaries, traversing the galaxy and seeing to the proper enforcement of Palpatine's decrees. Still others were courtiers at the Palace in the new capital on Byss.

Whatever they do, they enact the Emperor's will and policies with his total trust and confidence because their link to him through the Force allows him to always observe them. Before the Emperor's defeat, many had been gathered into the Imperial Ruling Council. It had been planned that eventually these adepts would replace the system of Moffs, Grand Moffs and governors, instituting a Dark Side Theocracy.
Even once the dark side adepts were fully integrated into the Imperial system creating the intended theocracy, the evolution of the Galactic Empire would not yet be complete. The key to the ultimate form lay in the Galactic Emperor's connection to his dark side adepts, and by extension their own connection to the countless Imperial citizens under their rule. As described in Dark Empire II, the Galactic Emperor's Dark Jedi were largely absorbed into his own consciousness, becoming "extensions of his being." This same relationship exists in parallel between the dark side adepts and the Sentinels in the Imperial Citadel on Byss (cf. GADM Thrawn's "borg-implant theory" regarding the Imperial Starfleet at Endor in Heir to the Empire, or Joruus C'baoth's absorption of GEN Covell in The Last Command).

Here one sees the final form of the Galactic Empire: The Galactic Emperor would ultimately consume his dark side adepts into his own ego. In turn, each of these adepts would consume others beneath them, until at last every last sentient being were assimilated into the Galactic Emperor. The Galactic Emperor is already quasi-immortal, having overcome death by means of possessing clone bodies; by then, he would have transcended humanity itself, becoming more a force of nature than an individual being. Indeed, one questions whether he would have need of his original body at all, having every single body in the galaxy as his own.

Here is the ultimate expression of the malignant narcissism described by Dr. Kernberg. Here, the Galactic Emperor, having idealized himself as an aggressor, undertakes not only to control, exploit, and destroy others, but obliterates them as distinct from himself entirely. The end result is the realization of the first stage of Dr. Freud's psychological development, a galaxy in which all life is an extension of the self, where life exists only to satisfy the self's desires and needs.

The military and naval complex of the Galactic Empire, like everything else within the Imperial framework, exists to further the goals of the Galactic Emperor; the Army, Navy, and Marines serve a very practical function within that framework: to protect, enforce, and propagate the Imperial system.

Although, as considered above, the majority of the Imperial population - which, it may be added, includes both humans and non-humans - may support the Galactic Emperor personally, and, very likely to a lesser extent, the Imperial State institutionally, by no means does this mean that the states within the Galactic Empire necessarily have any regard for one another. Indeed, in the "Hand of Thrawn" duology, the former "Star Warriors" come to realize how much of the Imperial armed forces were devoted to suppressing internecine fighting and ancient, violent rivalries within the Galactic Empire. An important part of the Imperial system is law and order, and fighting amongst member states is not conducive toward those ends. Specter of the Past refers to the "petty little wars the Emperor's New Order had so thoughtlessly interrupted."

Additionally, the Imperial armed forces maintain two parallel forces; on the Sector level, in addition to suppressing fraternal warfare, the Imperial military-naval complex also serves as a permanent occupation force, to put down any rebellion directed at the Imperial State itself. At the pan-Empire level, even greater strategic forces exist to subjugate undue independence, warlordism, or secessionism on the part of the full-fledged member states or even the Moff Governors or Grand Moff Governors themselves.

Furthermore, the Imperial armed forces were also responsible for defense of the Galactic Empire's territories from outside aggression, and also conquest of new territories as deemed appropriate by the political leadership (usually undertaken after diplomatic negotiation has failed to secure the desired results). Elimination of the rebel Alliance and like movements would be merely one of many tasks for the Imperial armed forces.

Ultimately, once the dark side theocracy were instituted in its fullest form, the purpose of the Imperial military-naval complex would change; in a guest lecture at the Brionelle Memorial Military Academy, Chandrila, MAJ Hextrophon made the following remarks (found in the Dark Empire Sourcebook):
"[...] With the revelation of the Emperor's possible immortality, a new theory comes to mind. With seemingly no end to his reign, the Emperor could foresee a time when he would want to expand his reign.

"Would a single galaxy be enough for Palpatine the Undying? I think not. The Old Republic had long considered the possibility of contact with other galaxies and made several abortive attempts at it. Palpatine had even secretly destroyed the most recent of these, the Outbound Flight project. According to what we have retrieved from Admiral Thrawn's notes, he led the mission to kill the six Jedi aboard the ship.

"It seems obvious that Palpatine's ultimate goal was the conquest, not just of our galaxy, but of others. What better way to ensure his military supremacy than with these World Devastators? Arriving at world after world, consuming and creating weapons while the battle rages on about them, never lacking for resources or energy ... the thought is terrifying. [...]"
If MAJ Hextrophon's belief is correct, and the known predilections of the Sith indicate that it most probably is, then it seems clear that, like all else in the Imperial system, the Imperial armed forces have their own role in what one might call the Apotheosis of Palpatine. Once he had become God-Emperor - in a way unrivaled even by the Dune saga's Padishah Emperor Leto II, imperial cult and all - it would then become the task of the Imperial armed forces, in the shape of the World Devastators, to extend his all-encompassing rule to other galaxies, as well.

The Galactic Empire in its final form would be a sort of mystical, expansionist anarchy (if every sentient within the Galactic Empire were an extension of the apotheosized Galactic Emperor, the state would be rendered wholly obsolete). Given an immortal enemy imbued with vast preternatural abilities, able to rend the fabric of space and time with his mind, and possessed of colossal engines of destruction capable of self-repair and adaptation, one might conclude that resistance would in fact be futile.

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Post by Enforcer Talen »

fascinating stuff.
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Post by Kurgan »

Perhaps he spliced himself with Jabba's DNA (retrieved from the wreckage of his sail barge), to become... (drum roll) PIZZA THE HUTT!
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Post by Jean Paul »

So... you're saying the whole Galactic Empire, at the most fundamental level, existed for no other reason than to make Palpatine immortal?
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Post by Kurgan »

Evil Overlord's have all sorts of motivations.

Is that anymore crazy than "wanting to have order" or "wanting power" or "wanting my enemies to die"?
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Post by frigidmagi »

From what I'm getting he's saying the Empire exisited to boast Palpatine into Godhood over the SW Galaxy and beyond.


I thought the God Emperor of Warhammer 40k was up there...
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Post by Publius »

Yes. The Galactic Empire's essential nature, its raison d'etre, is to be the vehicle of the Galactic Emperor's Apotheosis, much as a coccoon's essential nature is to be the vehicle of the caterpillar's metamorphosis into a butterfly.

As it happens, the Dark Side Sourcebook contains explicit confirmation of the Galactic Emperor's intentions:
He had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey accross the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.
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Post by Lusankya »

1. If a majority of the population in the emerging Empire supported Palpatine's bid to become Emperor, why the need for a massive war machine?
The war machine could have been the reason the population supported Palpatine's bid - By allowing the public to see a threat (whether it is real or imagined is inconsequential), the population is much more likely to fall quietly in line behine the person they believe is most likely to stop that threat, even if they would not follow alll their directives under more peaceful circumstances. If there was general discontent - not open rebellion - in the republic beforehand, the image of the war machine setting out to stop what appears to be the source of the discontent would encourage people to agree with Palpatine's policies on some level. Even if they disagreed with some of his methods, or his fascist leanings, many would still think "well at least he's doing something, which is better than the stalemate that existed before he came along."

Also, there are many positive effects to come from war. The population is mobilised, given a raison d'etre, and the economy is given a boost due to increased production and the creation of new jobs. If the war is successful, the conquering nation can gain wealth from conquered territories (in medieval times this was particularly true since the ransom for captured nobles wasoften quite substantial. A king's ransom could literally bankrupt an entire nation) and even if it is unsuccessful the other advantages remain. To those people living in the cushy inner systems (as most of the population of the empire does, I believe), these advantages would be the most commonly seen effects of the war. They would see that suddenly old uncle bill who hadn't been able to get a job in years finally found employment working in a gun factory - not only earning his wages but also working for the glory and the protection of the empire. They would hear stories about how the vicious enemies were finally suppressed due to the courage and valour of the imperial troops, and savvy old Palpatine would tell them that THEY had a part in this victory too, because it is only because of their hard work and dedication that this threat can finally be overcome ...

Most importantly, though, even IF most of the population supported Palpatine's rise to emperor, those that did not support him would most likely be violently opposed to a dictatorial regime. They would include militiants like Mon Mothma, Bail Organa and Garm Bel Ibis, who would take advantage of a lack of a central policing force to disrupt the emperor's power in their sectors and possiblyeven seceding from the empire to form separate nation-states. Naturally, if you're a dictator and you want to be taken seriously, you don't let this happen.

2. It has been established that the Republic encompassed almost the entire SW galaxy, then what was the Empire's goals (except to work as a tool to help the Sith getting revenge)? Was the goal simply to integrate the systems that previously wasn't part of the Republic and consolidate its hold without further expansion, or were there more ambitious goals than that?
I don't know. I tend to doubt that the "galactic republic" or the "galactic empire" were quite as galactic as they would have us believe. It kinda strikes me as the way the Romans viewed the world as "The Roman Empire" and "The Barbarians". Humans, which seem to dominate the Galactic Republic/Empire have a tendency to view the world as centred on themselves. Even today, when we know that the universe does not revolve around the Earth, we show this tendency in nationalism, where most people will view world events in relation to how it affects themselves. Certainly the Galactie Empire/Republic was large, but I'm not sure if it actually spanned a whole galaxy.
Connected to this is the classical issue, why is the Empire evil (besides the fact that it's controlled by an evil Dark Lord of the Sith)?
It's evil because the people who won the war said so. :P Nah.
Seriously, though, Most people would agree that enslaving enrtire species and destroying planets is evil, but on the other hand, I'm certain that Palpatine, Tarkin et al made up some kind of justification for this all. Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY wakes up in the morning and says to themselves "I think I'll go out and kill some puppies today. Why? Because it's EVIL! Yeah! EVIL = GOOD!" They're more likely to wake up and say to themselves, "I'm going to go out and kill some puppies today. Why? Because puppies are cute! People buy them and look after them because of this, but they are WEAK! Letting puppies live is a BAD ACT, so I shall go out and show I am strong/protect the people from their weakness/etc.

Sure Palpatine talks about the dark side too, but that doesn't mean that his definition of "dark side" is the same as that of the jedi's. Remember that while both jedi and sith use of the force involves using feeling and instinct, the jedi (before Luke, that is) advocated a lack of emotion. Perhaps the dark side is simply the use of force that comes from emotion - power that is easier to access, but harder to control. If that is the case, the dark side could have many aspects that aren't all neccessarily evil, and the use of anger or hate as a gateway to the dark side could simply be because these emotions are easier for a novice dark side learner to channel into useable energy. After all, they are destructive, and it doesn't often matter how messily you destroy something, wheras other emotions tapped poorly could create a real problem.

Of course, that's just a half-baked theory I thought up on the way to soccer this morning.


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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

:shock:

Wow, you're back. Welcome back aboard. :D
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Post by Lex »

Jean Paul wrote:So... you're saying the whole Galactic Empire, at the most fundamental level, existed for no other reason than to make Palpatine immortal?
Ever heard of the "1000 jähriges Reich"?

Palpatine planned the same, with his clones.
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Post by FTeik »

Very interesting (and enlightening) text, Publius. I think, we need a section for essays such as this. Considering, that most of this is based on WEG, one has to admire how well all of this fits together.

Hmmm, i wonder, if Darth Vader had similar ambitions, if we remember his thoughts in the ANH-novelisation.
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Post by JME2 »

Lex wrote:
Jean Paul wrote:So... you're saying the whole Galactic Empire, at the most fundamental level, existed for no other reason than to make Palpatine immortal?
Ever heard of the "1000 jähriges Reich"?

Palpatine planned the same, with his clones.
Hmm, indeed. Too bad Carnor Jax ruined it all. 8)
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Post by President Sharky »

JME2 wrote:
Lex wrote:
Jean Paul wrote:So... you're saying the whole Galactic Empire, at the most fundamental level, existed for no other reason than to make Palpatine immortal?
Ever heard of the "1000 jähriges Reich"?

Palpatine planned the same, with his clones.
Hmm, indeed. Too bad Carnor Jax ruined it all. 8)
DO NOT SPEAK THE NAME OF THE GREAT BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

I despise Carnor Jax, and the whole premise of Crimson Empire. How could the great Emperor Palpatine not notice that one of his guards was plotting against him? How could the fact that his doctor had betrayed him escaped his all-seeing eye? It's absurd to think that Palpatine would be so easily defeated from within. I just ignore the blasphemous Dark Empire II and Empire's End, along with their idiotic Crimson Empire sequels, and go on believeing that Palpatine's final death took place over Da Scootcha V. I cannot accept that Han fucking Solo simply shot him in the back to finish him.
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Post by JME2 »

President Sharky wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Lex wrote: Ever heard of the "1000 jähriges Reich"?

Palpatine planned the same, with his clones.
Hmm, indeed. Too bad Carnor Jax ruined it all. 8)
DO NOT SPEAK THE NAME OF THE GREAT BLASPHEMY!!!!!!.
Given the feelings that were brought up in the Exploited Universe thread, I should have seen a reaction like that coming. :wink: :oops:

In any event, the only good thing about CEII was the set-up to Vector Prime with the cameo by Nom Anor.
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Post by Techno_Union »

Obviously Palpatine is "evil," but I was reading the SW trilogy all-in-one book last night and the very beginning says how it was really Palpatine's agents who were the evil ones... they essentialy took over and Palpatine just grew remote and went away from the public.

Just thought that was interesting.
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