Force Heretic Trilogy.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-09-07 10:27am

The NJO:Force Heretic trilliogy. Read the first one, it's barely readable. Are the other two better? Would it spoil the NJO completely if i just skipped them and when on to the final prophecy?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-07 11:51am

The Force Heretic trilogy is what made me abandon the NJO. I read all three books, got bored, and still haven't read the last two.

Skip them. Refugee (the second book) is horrible, and Reunion isn't really magnificent either.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-09-07 12:00pm

You get what you want from The Final Prophecy and TUF, which are much better written

Edit, because for spellings, im drunk

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-07 01:08pm

You should have finished Force Heretic. While those three books SUCKED, they led up to Final Prophecy (which was really good) and TUF (which ROCKED!!!!).

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-09-07 01:11pm

I need to find SBS, and Destinny's way..

They have gone into the Void known as The Bedroom

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-09-07 01:50pm

Praxis wrote:You should have finished Force Heretic. While those three books SUCKED, they led up to Final Prophecy (which was really good) and TUF (which ROCKED!!!!).

Yeah but if I skip them, with it make much difference to my enjoyment of those good books?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-09-07 01:56pm

Not as such

except for the Yenethan< SSi Ruuk, Bakura, and a few other plot lines involving Tahiri

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-09-07 03:27pm

Why are these books so bad?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-07 03:44pm

Tribun wrote:Why are these books so bad?

Because so many little whiny fans wanted Anakin back because they were Anakin/Tahiri shippers

.

That being said, I loved Remnant since we finally got to see Pellaeon shine (Directing a major offensive from a bacta tank = priceless) and anything that involves the Imperials (except for the Bantam-era Imperial comeback of the week) is mostly good. Plus, with his connections and status severed, we also got to see Nom Anor's true feelings and conflicts come to rise. Since I never read the Black Fleet trilogy, I wasn't crazy about that subplot.

Then for Refugee - eh, I had mixed feelings on that. I loved that we got to get a better look at Chiss culture, but the Bakura subplot was un-needed and really felt like filler.

And finally, Reunion. We get a decent (amazing, isn't it?) tie-in with the prequel era through Zonama Sekot -- though again, the Han/Leia subplot sucked, redeemed only by Pellaeon's battle performance.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-09-07 04:21pm

They sucked because the main plot of the series grinded to a halt so they could go after a fucking living planet which can them a nice fucking stupid way to end the series without showing what dumbasses half the characters were.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-09-07 04:39pm

Tribun wrote:Why are these books so bad?

Matter of opinoin I suppose. Alot of people have hated the NJO as a whole for its apparent lack of quality, but I'm not sure abotu that. It startted off kinda slow/lame (Vector Prime was okay, the stackpole duology was meh, and Balance point sucked ass.).. but once you startted getting into Luceno and Keye's work it got better.. reaching a high point with Star by Star and Allston's duology.

That's where I think some of the latter books tend to suffer (some of them at least) - everything past Rebel Stand is largely "downhill" Star by Star was such a good read, that when you read the others after the Allston books you got disappointed - Dark Journey sucked, Traitor kinda sucked too (Its about the only SW book I think I have read in one day, mostly because I skimmed/skipped over parts of it.) It picked up some with Destiny's Way... and then I think you get the Force Heretic books (which are about average - I wasn't ecstatic about them but they had some definitely interesting moments).

I can't say I liked Final Prophecy either... The the Unifying Force was okay.. but not as good as I had hoped for a climax. Overall, while maybe a third to a half of the series is so so in my opinion, I think it only had maybe a handful of books that trruly sucked (Balance point, Dark journey, and the Final Prophecy in particular.).. which kind balances out with the high points (Luceno's duology, the Allston Duology, and topped off with Star by Star.)

Frankly, I think the Clone Wars novels are starting off worse so far.. although I do like the Medstar duology so far.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-07 05:28pm

Remnant was good, at least, the parts about the Imperial remnant.
The other books were just BORING. They went from planet to planet, found out the Yevetha got nuked, fixed problems on Bakura and other worlds, etc, etc...boooring.
When we get to Final Prophecy, though...whoo!

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-07 05:29pm

Praxis wrote:Remnant was good, at least, the parts about the Imperial remnant.
The other books were just BORING. They went from planet to planet, found out the Yevetha got nuked, fixed problems on Bakura and other worlds, etc, etc...boooring.
When we get to Final Prophecy, though...whoo!

Personally, my only problem with TFP was that I wish the Quorealists subplot had been introduced slightly earlier in the series, perhaps during DW.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-07 07:02pm

The Bakura excursion was absolutely pointless, it had no reason to be there. It really pissed me off.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-07 09:07pm

As was the whole Yevethan thing.

In fact, the last two force heretic books should have been combined into one, shorter one. Remove the whole yevethan thing, remove Bakura, remove all the extra planets Luke and Jacen stopped by to ask directions to Zonama Sekot...etc. There, a short, concise, to the point book that sets the stage for TFP.

Although the thing with the governer becoming a droid was fairly cool, and showed just how advanced Star Wars is...

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-07 10:08pm

Praxis wrote:As was the whole Yevethan thing.

In fact, the last two force heretic books should have been combined into one, shorter one. Remove the whole yevethan thing, remove Bakura, remove all the extra planets Luke and Jacen stopped by to ask directions to Zonama Sekot...etc. There, a short, concise, to the point book that sets the stage for TFP.

Although the thing with the governer becoming a droid was fairly cool, and showed just how advanced Star Wars is...

Plus on a side note, it did present a SW tale in its most memorable form -- a trilogy.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-09-07 10:32pm

Meh, can't really comment on the whole three book series, since I've just read the first book. But it is coming down off of a high. Star by Star, Rebel Dream, and Rebel Stand, were excellent books that actually continued the god damn war instead of go off on tangents and let the war continued through bits of dialouge.

That had been my major complaint in the entire series, so far. The overall war took back stage to the little missions of the main characters, who ran off to do a little of this and a little of that, while the Vong whooped ass in the background.

With Star by Star and the Rebel Dream/Stand books, the war was highlighted. Skip Dark Journey, but Destiney's Way put the cherry ontop of the war. Good shit. Traitor was just a mind fuck for mind fuckiness. While I thought it was a decent enough book, it still was a tangent to the actual war being raged across the galaxy.

Force Heretic I has now leveled it out. While still kind of highlighting the war, the characters are now split up to do more stupid little missions that 'might end the war' in some stupid fashion other than confronting the enemy.

I must say, that I am interested in the new philosiphy that Jacen seems to be putting together for the NJO, and I do like reading about Luke and Mara. But I'm sick of Han and Leia running around patching shit up diplomatically while still getting a good blaster shot from time to time. I hate what their characters have become, since TCoPL. Blah.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-08 12:26am

EXACTLY. All three Force Heretic books are filled with Han and Leia and Jaina running around playing diplomat, and Jacen and Luke and Danni running around playing explorer.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-08 01:21am

Knife wrote:I must say, that I am interested in the new philosiphy that Jacen seems to be putting together for the NJO, and I do like reading about Luke and Mara. But I'm sick of Han and Leia running around patching shit up diplomatically while still getting a good blaster shot from time to time. I hate what their characters have become, since TCoPL. Blah.

Yeah, they also don't work for me the same level as they used to. One of the reviewers over at Force.net's Book section, Mike I believe, has this to say on the Leia/Han relationship:

The more I think about it, the more important it is to me that TUF is the end of Han and Leia's story. I can live with a cameo or two in the post-NJO material, but we couldn't possibly leave these characters in a better place than the one they're in right now.

Of course, it's probably just that as a couple, I like Luke/Mara better.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-08 02:08am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:They sucked because the main plot of the series grinded to a halt so they could go after a fucking living planet which can them a nice fucking stupid way to end the series without showing what dumbasses half the characters were.

I'd agree. That entire Zonoma Sekot thing was totally stupid from the summaries I've read of it. It seems to come out of nowhere and the Vong simply didn't deserve anything half that good after all the atrocities they have done (this is not about a few extremists).

But they've already shown themselves to be dumbasses throughout the whole series.

I liked Star by Star, but honestly, it'd have been nice had they assigned a couple more chapters to the Battle of Coruscant. Hearing all the descriptions of that "pinnacle of NJO", I honestly thought there would be more battle. I think they can afford to snip one or two chapters of the Jedi attempt to kill the voxyn (which dragged on for so long I skimmed through some of it) in favor of what may be the biggest battle ever portrayed in a SW novel.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-08 02:21am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:They sucked because the main plot of the series grinded to a halt so they could go after a fucking living planet which can them a nice fucking stupid way to end the series without showing what dumbasses half the characters were.
I'd agree. That entire Zonoma Sekot thing was totally stupid from the summaries I've read of it. It seems to come out of nowhere and the Vong simply didn't deserve anything half that good after all the atrocities they have done (this is not about a few extremists).

But they've already shown themselves to be dumbasses throughout the whole series.

I liked Star by Star, but honestly, it'd have been nice had they assigned a couple more chapters to the Battle of Coruscant. Hearing all the descriptions of that "pinnacle of NJO", I honestly thought there would be more battle. I think they can afford to snip one or two chapters of the Jedi attempt to kill the voxyn (which dragged on for so long I skimmed through some of it) in favor of what may be the biggest battle ever portrayed in a SW novel.

They had been building up the Zonama Sekot arc since Agents of Chaos I, where Vergere first appeared -- just after Rouge Planet had come out and this had fans wondering if this was indeed the same Vergere of the prequel novel. Destiny's Way finally answered it once and for all and I enjoyed the tie-in with the prequel arc, especially the twist of ZS not being Yuuzhan'tar itself, but an offspring of the Vong's homeworld.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-09-08 02:24am

JME2 wrote:...especially the twist of ZS not being Yuuzhan'tar itself, but an offspring of the Vong's homeworld.

Planetary offspring? Planets have babies now?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-08 02:45am

Stofsk wrote:
JME2 wrote:...especially the twist of ZS not being Yuuzhan'tar itself, but an offspring of the Vong's homeworld.
Planetary offspring? Planets have babies now?

From NJOE:

Sekot reveals that Zonama Sekot is actually a "seed" of the original Yuuzhan’tar (a history that it has actually forgotten over the generations) and that the Yuuzhan Vong themselves are its symbionts. The original homeworld was destroyed in their civil wars, but before it died, it shot its seed into space. When the Yuuzhan Vong got in close proximity to this galaxy, their genes drew them to Zonama, as happened again when it hid in the Unknown Regions.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-08 05:22am

NJOE wrote:Sekot reveals that Zonama Sekot is actually a "seed" of the original Yuuzhan’tar (a history that it has actually forgotten over the generations) and that the Yuuzhan Vong themselves are its symbionts. The original homeworld was destroyed in their civil wars, but before it died, it shot its seed into space. When the Yuuzhan Vong got in close proximity to this galaxy, their genes drew them to Zonama, as happened again when it hid in the Unknown Regions.

Would it be redundant to say this is so brain dead? OK, assuming a planet can something shoot a 'seed' into the vast vaccuum of space, how the fuck did that little seed manage to grow into anything resembling a planet?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-09-08 05:25am

God Only Knows...

Im still stick with SbS Destiny's way and TUF for the best of NJO, with the enemy Lines duology there as well