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Lucas explains the Parsec issue (DVD commentary)
Posted: 2004-09-21 05:07pm
by Mange
And there's one of the concepts that is sort of controversial is the fact that when Han Solo talks about getting from point A to point B. He talks in terms of 'parsecs', which is distance rather than time. The premise being that in order to travel through Hyperspace you have to plot a course around all of the stuff. You know, all of the uh, planets and stars and everything. So that the fastest way between two points is a straight line and it's up to your navi-computer and your navigations skills. That's what makes you go fast and in the particular case of the Millennium Falcon, the Millennium Falcon has an extremely sophisticated navigation system. So its, the reason it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not because it actually has speed but it has navigational skills that allows it to go from point A to point B faster than anybody else. And, of course, that was never explained and people got very confused by it but if you follow the story, I think you would figure it out, that speed is determined by distance. I mean, it's the speed that you get to a point is the distance you travel. If there's a lot in the way and if you fly through something it'll, obviously, destroy you. So the idea is you got to plot a course around everything to get there in the fastest route.
I thought this was really interesting when I listened to the ANH DVD commentary track. It was good to get some sort of clarification.
Posted: 2004-09-21 05:09pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
Actually, that pretty much IS the EU explenation...
Posted: 2004-09-21 05:11pm
by Mange
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Actually, that pretty much IS the EU explenation...
Oops, my bad. Perhaps I should edit that out then. Thanks Spanky!
Posted: 2004-09-21 06:10pm
by DocHorror
its a nice way for george to make up a bullshit excuse for his lack of knowledge about space.
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:01pm
by Mark S
That's what I've always thought about the speed of hyperspace. Theoretically you could go from one side of the galaxy to the other in a day but you have to plot your course around all the crap in the way. Because of that, Maul can get to Naboo for Coruscant quickly because there is a straight route, while going from Tatooine to Alderaan may take longer because of the course that must be taken.
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:06pm
by Darth Garden Gnome
It would seem to me (therefore putting the rest of this post in jeporady of extreme wrongness) that since our galaxy is mostly empty space and indeed, most of our universe, one could go to lightspeed all the way across the galaxy and never worry about touching a single thing... Sure you would need to take precautions and always want charted courses, but I find it difficult to believe that there's some truly massive object blocking all paths to a certain planet from a whatever location, and that one would need to take lengthy amounts of time to maneuver around it.
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:10pm
by Illuminatus Primus
Physically hitting mass shadows might not be the only issue; the gravitational wells of massive stellar bodies could derange the trajectory of the unsufficiently prepared traveler, and at hyperdrive speed, put them amazingly off-course.
Besides, according to SW ICS, the Falcon has "warp stabilizers" which help it "tunnel" in hyperspace. Perhaps this allow the Falcon to barrel deeper into stellar gravity wells without the hazards and inconcienences other ships have.
Ancilliary: Does this perhaps change the meaning of the "Point Five" hyperdrive rating?
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:18pm
by Darth Garden Gnome
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Physically hitting mass shadows might not be the only issue; the gravitational wells of massive stellar bodies could derange the trajectory of the unsufficiently prepared traveler, and at hyperdrive speed, put them amazingly off-course.
I don't know. All the examples we have of SW vessels getting stuck in gravity wells (artificially generated by Interdictor cruisers, but AFAIK same difference) the ships simply drop out of hyperspace instead of being thrown off course. Indeed, I can't think of any instances of a ship being thrown off course while in hyperspace for any other reasons.
As my knowledge of astronomy is truly limited, I ask, are the gravity wells of massive stellar bodies big enough to be of any true significance, when we look at it on a galactic scale?
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:31pm
by Batman
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
I don't know. All the examples we have of SW vessels getting stuck in gravity wells (artificially generated by Interdictor cruisers, but AFAIK same difference) the ships simply drop out of hyperspace instead of being thrown off course.
Of course. They drop out of hyperspace to
prevent them being thrown off course. It's a safety measure.
As my knowledge of astronomy is truly limited, I ask, are the gravity wells of massive stellar bodies big enough to be of any true significance, when we look at it on a galactic scale?
Look at the size of a solar system. What do you think is holding the planets in their orbit? Gravity.
That's the bare bones minimum size for its gravity well, assuming that imediately outside the outermost planet's orbit the effect ceases (which it doesn't).
That's 12 light-hours for a measly sun-type star. The sphere extends to 6
lightyears if we include the Oort cloud.
Given that there's much larger stars and that there's a shitload of them...
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:34pm
by Drooling Iguana
DocHorror wrote:its a nice way for george to make up a bullshit excuse for his lack of knowledge about space.
Actually, the "parsec" thing was a last-minute change. In the novelization, which was based on earlier versions of the script and released before the movie, Han said that he made the Kessel run in "twelve standard timeparts." Lucas had it right the first time, but decided to change it for some reason.
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:43pm
by Stravo
Drooling Iguana wrote: Lucas had it right the first time, but decided to change it for some reason.
You mean like Greedo shooting first? Sounds to me like the man has an issue with second guessing himself.
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:49pm
by Illuminatus Primus
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I don't know. All the examples we have of SW vessels getting stuck in gravity wells (artificially generated by Interdictor cruisers, but AFAIK same difference) the ships simply drop out of hyperspace instead of being thrown off course. Indeed, I can't think of any instances of a ship being thrown off course while in hyperspace for any other reasons.
Variation of intensity; I'm talking about the gravitational pull of a star cluster from possibly ten light-years away.
The gravity wells you're talking about are the intense, with-in-a-planetary-diameter brand.
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:As my knowledge of astronomy is truly limited, I ask, are the gravity wells of massive stellar bodies big enough to be of any true significance, when we look at it on a galactic scale?
Tachyons must obey gravity as much as tardyons.
Posted: 2004-09-21 07:49pm
by Galvatron
Lucas is so full of shit. He basically adopted KJA's explanation after realizing that his own explanation ("Han's a bullshitter") was completely inadequate.
Posted: 2004-09-22 12:39am
by SPOOFE
Eh. I fail to see why Lucas can't simply have thrown in a random, off-hand comment in his movie. The level of importance Han's comment has is nil. He could have very well said, "I jerked off five times in less than twelve parsecs," and the movie woulda been just the same.
Posted: 2004-09-22 12:43am
by Durandal
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Tachyons must obey gravity as much as tardyons.
"Tardyons"? I just got the mental image of an electron riding the short bus and drooling all over itself.
Posted: 2004-09-22 01:15am
by Illuminatus Primus
Tardyons. I didn't make it up, sharp-eyed physics kid.
Saxton prefers the term "bradyon", though I'm not sure why more than one term for the same thing here exists.
wow...
Posted: 2004-09-22 04:57am
by Kurgan
Posted: 2004-09-22 01:11pm
by PainRack
The problem is, this still doesn't solve the EU version of the Kessel Run. It does however, works for older written descriptions of the Kessel Run(Pre Jedi Academy)
Posted: 2004-09-22 07:25pm
by The Silence and I
I like the clarification, it settles a number of points for me; for example how a small, battered, falling apart at the seams freighter can outrun vessels with high-end military technology--having a better navi computer makes me ask how Han got it, but having better engines makes me ask what kind of crap do the Imperials use? On a power per volume basis an ISD ought to be much faster if that was the only factor.
Also, what implications for true speed does this bring up? And is any one ship faster than another, in a straight line run?
Posted: 2004-09-22 07:36pm
by Stravo
The Silence and I wrote:I like the clarification, it settles a number of points for me; for example how a small, battered, falling apart at the seams freighter can outrun vessels with high-end military technology--having a better navi computer makes me ask how Han got it, but having better engines makes me ask what kind of crap do the Imperials use? On a power per volume basis an ISD ought to be much faster if that was the only factor.
Also, what implications for true speed does this bring up? And is any one ship faster than another, in a straight line run?
I can't agree with the statement that it clears up the disparity with the Imperial fleet hyperspace speeds. A tramp freighter with a guy who barely has any money, constantly falling apart has an uber nav computer that a galaxy wide Empire does not?
Posted: 2004-09-22 08:05pm
by The Silence and I
I find it highly unlikely, but easier to accept than the alternative.
There is evidence for a massive computer on board--the entire cockpit is full of readouts and controls. Han had to flip many switches all over the place in ANH to fire up the navicomp. I think it is easier to accept Han has a huge, over clocked computer with a fast, unstable operating system (Three Pee Oh remarked about the computer's odd dialect, remember?) than accepting Han has markedly better engines than high-end military vessels.
Posted: 2004-09-22 08:39pm
by nightmare
Stravo wrote:I can't agree with the statement that it clears up the disparity with the Imperial fleet hyperspace speeds. A tramp freighter with a guy who barely has any money, constantly falling apart has an uber nav computer that a galaxy wide Empire does not?
But you find it more agreeable that he has uber engines? Not sublight of course, although everything points to them being good, just not "uber". Anyway, the point being that there's little difference regarding what part of the MF stands out.
There's also the "navigational skills" part, which to me indicates that Han was what we know him to be, a chancer. Taking higher risks navigating than you would expect would be Imperial protocol, resulting in shorter routes and consequently higher speed. Of course, none of this is new given the EU material. It does, however, support the notion that there's no theoretical speed limit to hyperdrive.
Posted: 2004-09-23 12:00am
by Drooling Iguana
Maybe it's not the computer itself, but the information on it. The sum total of decades of flying around the galaxy by Lando and Han, finding all the little hyperspace shortcuts that no one else knows about.
Posted: 2004-09-23 12:54am
by Illuminatus Primus
Stravo wrote:I can't agree with the statement that it clears up the disparity with the Imperial fleet hyperspace speeds. A tramp freighter with a guy who barely has any money, constantly falling apart has an uber nav computer that a galaxy wide Empire does not?
I'm inclined to agree with Strav; from this angle a better explanation is that the Falcon has a hot-rodded, riced-up hyperdrive running at pour efficiency or unsafe by Imperial warship standards and that's how it gets its speed. Much more plausible than having better computers than an ISD, IMHO.
Posted: 2004-09-23 12:59am
by Spanky The Dolphin
Where did Lucas specifically say that the MF has better astrogation computers than a ISD? I don't recall any mention of that, since he was talking about the Kessel Run.
I think some of you guys are exagerating and over-applying the issue.
