total population of the Galactic Empire?

[master_yoda]

Does anyone know this? I did some stats a while back, & the population was around 10-1,000 quadrillion.Anyone know? 9I'd say around 3-10 billion per average planet)

[Executor]

Does anyone know this? I did some stats a while back, & the population was around 10-1,000 quadrillion.Anyone know? 9I'd say around 3-10 billion per average planet)

The WEG Star Wars The Roleplaying Game, Second Edition Book states 100 Quadrillion.
I think this number is too low, there are around 20 million sepiant species, i think I read somewhere, that would give an aveage of only 5 billion beings of each species. I would expect a minimum of at least a thousand times this, so around 100 Quintrillion.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

100 quadrillion is a bit low, I'll say about 10 quintillion, and assuming 50,000,000 inhibited planets, that gives us about 200 billion species per planet. That seems high to me, so I think there are more than 50 million inhabited planets.

[LordChaos]

I've always gone on the assumption that, for aboslut minimum, one is looking at 1,000,000 (1 million) worlds with an average population of at least 2,000,000,000 (2 billion) each, and another 10,000,000 (10 million) with an average population of 200,000,000 (2 hundred million) each. These numbers are bound to be on the low side, but produce a total population (minnimum) of 4,000,000,000,000,000 (whatever 'llion that is).

What's interesting is, if you assume an average life span of 100 years (not unreasonable if the majority are "human" as we know it), an "eligeble for millitary service" window of onlly 10 years (say 20-30), with an average enlistment period being 5 years and only 1% of the eligable personel enlisting (extreamly low for a millitaristic state), you end up with a standing force of 2,000,000,000,000 (that's 2 trillion) at any given time, and averaging turnover rate of 400,000,000,000 a year. If the year is 365 days, that's over 1,000,000,000 personall gradutaing training every day.

and trekies thought the Jem'Hadar had the edge in millitary buildup......

[Master of Ossus]

I've always gone on the assumption that, for aboslut minimum, one is looking at 1,000,000 (1 million) worlds with an average population of at least 2,000,000,000 (2 billion) each, and another 10,000,000 (10 million) with an average population of 200,000,000 (2 hundred million) each. These numbers are bound to be on the low side, but produce a total population (minnimum) of 4,000,000,000,000,000 (whatever 'llion that is).

What's interesting is, if you assume an average life span of 100 years (not unreasonable if the majority are "human" as we know it), an "eligeble for millitary service" window of onlly 10 years (say 20-30), with an average enlistment period being 5 years and only 1% of the eligable personel enlisting (extreamly low for a millitaristic state), you end up with a standing force of 2,000,000,000,000 (that's 2 trillion) at any given time, and averaging turnover rate of 400,000,000,000 a year. If the year is 365 days, that's over 1,000,000,000 personall gradutaing training every day.

and trekies thought the Jem'Hadar had the edge in millitary buildup......

That seems reasonable.

BTW, Jem'Hadar had an advantage in military buildup over the Federation and their Alpha Quadrant schoolmates. They would NOT have an advantage over the Empire.

[David]

Federation on PSF????



Back you! Back!

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I've always gone on the assumption that, for aboslut minimum, one is looking at 1,000,000 (1 million) worlds with an average population of at least 2,000,000,000 (2 billion) each, and another 10,000,000 (10 million) with an average population of 200,000,000 (2 hundred million) each. These numbers are bound to be on the low side, but produce a total population (minnimum) of 4,000,000,000,000,000 (whatever 'llion that is).

What's interesting is, if you assume an average life span of 100 years (not unreasonable if the majority are "human" as we know it), an "eligeble for millitary service" window of onlly 10 years (say 20-30), with an average enlistment period being 5 years and only 1% of the eligable personel enlisting (extreamly low for a millitaristic state), you end up with a standing force of 2,000,000,000,000 (that's 2 trillion) at any given time, and averaging turnover rate of 400,000,000,000 a year. If the year is 365 days, that's over 1,000,000,000 personall gradutaing training every day.

and trekies thought the Jem'Hadar had the edge in millitary buildup......

You gave a minimum galactic population of 4 quadrillion, so with higher estimates, the Empire would have trillions of personell graduating every day!

[Publius]

At the time of Dark Empire, Imperial Centre had a population of only 806 millions; relatively sparsely populated planets like Calamari, Nal Hutta, and even carefully restricted Byss had populations of 27.5 billions, seven billions, and 19.7 billions, respectively. In fact, Nar Shaddaa even had a population estimated to be somewhere between 72.1 and 94.7 billions.

If one were to assume that one-half the population of sparsely-populated Nar Hutta -- to wit, 3.5 billions (or 3.5 thousand millions)-- is typical of each of the one million member systems of the Galactic Empire (ref. Star Wars Roleplaying Game, Second Edition, p. 126), then one can calculate (using American billions) the collective population of the fully civilised worlds of the Empire to be 3.5 quadrillions (or 3.5 thousand billions).

However, note that this figure is extremely conservative, for several reasons -- including (a.) it assumes that each of the massive population centres of the Empire (megalopolises like Imperial Centre, Corellia, Axxila, Alsakan, and Grizzmallt) has a population less than that of pre-interstellar Earth (to wit, six billions); (b.) it fails utterly to take into account the 50 million colonies, protectorates, and governorships also included within the Empire.

If each of those colonies, protectorates, and governorships had a population equal to one-third of that of the Earth -- to wit, two billions (or two thousand millions) -- one may calculate an additional 100 quadrillions (or 100 thousand billions), to which one may add the earlier figure calculated, yielding a total population of 103.5 quadrillions (or 103.5 thousand billions), a figure which nearly matches that given by the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, Second Edition.

However, it should be noted that this figure, so nearly matching that given by that source, is still extremely conservative, assuming very low planetary populations on the scale of modern human civilisation -- to wit, a few billions or less. Imagine if each member world had a population equal to Nal Hutta's seven billions, or to Byss's 19.7 billions, or to Calamari's 27.5 billions. Remember -- Nal Hutta is sparsely populated, its inhabitants spread throughout its plains; Byss is a carefully restricted world, with its every inhabitant meticulously selected and approved before assuming residency; Calamari is a vast ocean, with only scattered cities playing host to its population.

Publius

[NhikRath]

A quote from SWTC: (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/astro.html#coruscant )

All evidence indicates that the [pre-Dark Empire] surface of Coruscant was entirely covered with city, except for small polar caps and tiny isolated seas. The orbital views in The Phantom Menace show consistent and well-lit urban terrain at essentially all latitudes. Supposing that the cityscape amounts to 90% of the global surface, and assuming that the planet is about the same size as Earth, this means an area of about 460,000,000 km². (This is a miserly, worst-case estimate, since the physical characteristics of Coruscant derived from other sources make it larger than Earth.) The typical population density for suburban areas of modern cities on Earth are of an order of magnitude about 10,000 or 20,000 persons per square kilometre (taking the comfortable Australian city of Perth as an example). (Readers who would prefer a USA example could consider New York county, with a 1999 population of 1,551,844 persons, an area of 28 square miles = 72.5km², and a population density of 21,107 persons/km² after metric conversion. Reputedly the densest urban population centre on Earth, Hong Kong, had 98,000 persons/km² in 1999 and remains less built-up than Coruscant by some orders of magnitude.) If Imperial City were only as heavily populated as the suburbs of Perth then the population would be of the order of nine trillion persons. Of course Imperial city is not inhabited in the same way as Perth. These suburbs consist almost entirely of single-level buildings and generous gardens around each family dwelling; Imperial City is composed of spires averaging two miles tall, with hundreds of floors, and very few residents ever set eyes on the soil of their planet. The population density of Imperial City is certainly at least several hundred times that of Perth. The total population of Coruscant must be at least of the order of several thousand trillion (1,000,000,000,000,000), and certainly no less than several hundred trillion.

So what you're talking about as 4 or 5 or 100 quadrillion as a population for the Empire is immensely too low an estimate. The population of Coruscant alone is between 900 trillion and about 1 quadrillion, assuming a density of only 100 times that of Perth's suburb area.

There's no reason to believe that Coruscant is the most populated world in the Galactic Empire, especially in light of the existence of vast prison worlds and thriving commercial sectors. Hong Kong, the most densely populated area on Earth, has nowhere near the proportionate political influence of Coruscant in the Star Wars Universe, so there is no real substance to the belief that some major commerce world on some major trade route (serving the same role as the city of Hong Kong) would not have perhaps 10 times the population of Coruscant; perhaps 10 quadrillion persons on it at any given time, not to mention its moons and nearby planets.

If we're talking average 100 trillion people per major planet (a very conservative estimate), and 1 million worlds in the Empire, then that's about: 100 billion billion people, or 100 thousand quadrillion people, or simply about 100 quintillion people, which is a lot more than you could meet in a lifetime, and way more than the number of people on Earth right now, dead or alive. Picture every single person that's ever existed on Earth, then multiply that by a million, and you'll get kinda close. And this is with a conservative average planetary population AND a conservative number of planets.

If we as Terran Humans were a race in Star Wars, with a population of 6 billion we'd be considered nearly extinct.

But think of the economic opportunities! If you marketed to 1 out of 1 quadrillion people for a product worth $10, and 10% of the people in that market bought your product, you'd have $100 million, and if you have an $8 markup over production and distribution cost (not uncommon), and 50% income tax for the local socialist imperialist government, that's $40 million pure profit, enough to buy a few dozen starships and expand comfortably.

[master_yoda]

Guys,some of you don't understand I don't think.It goes
billion,trillion,zillion then quadrillion.

[David]

Billion, trillion, quadrillion.


zillion is not a number.

[master_yoda]

what? If it isn't,then the pop of empire is 1-100,000quadrillion

[master_yoda]

is zillion really not a number?

[Publius]

"Zillion" is not a number, but a colloquial term used to indicate very large amounts -- typically done with one's tongue firmly in one's cheek, so to speak.

The proper hierarchy of numbers with the "-illion" suffix is

• million (1 x 10^6)
  thousand millions (1 x 10^9)
  billion (1 x 10^12)
  thousand billions (1 x 10^15)
  trillion (1 x 10^18)
  thousand trillions (1 x 10^21)
  quadrillion (1 x 10^24)
  thousand quadrillions (1 x 10^27)

and so forth. However, this hierarchy is rapidly falling into disuse in favour of the Americanised system, which downsizes the quantities involved when using the terms significantly, as can be seen:

• million (1 x 10^6)
  billion (1 x 10^9)
  trillion (1 x 10^12)
  quadrillion (1 x 10^15)
  quintillion (1 x 10^18)
  sextillion (1 x 10^21)
  septillion (1 x 10^24)
  octillion (1 x 10^27)

For example, a proper quadrillion (1 x 10^24) is ten thousand millions (or ten billions) of times the size of an American quadrillion (1 x 10^15).

Now consider that the Earth has a population of six thousand millions (or six billions) of people. Consider that if one met a new person per second, one would spend approximately 190 years meeting new people before having met six thousand millions of people.

Now consider that Byss, a planet whose location is above top secret, whose every inhabitant is carefully screened and meticulously selected to meet specific standards, has a population of 19.7 thousand millions (19.7 billions) of people, over three times as many people as are living on the planet Earth as of right now.

Now consider that Calamari, a planet whose surface is nearly entirely covered in water, and whose population inhabits scattered floating metropolises -- no urban sprawl, no suburbia, no rural settlement -- has a population of 27.5 thousand millions (27.5 billions) of people, a little over four and a half times as many people as are living on the planet Earth as of right now.

When one considers Dr Saxton's calculation regarding population density on Imperial Centre alone and the size of the Galactic Empire, it becomes increasingly clear that the total population of the galaxy must be considerably larger than the given estimate of 100 thousand billions (100 quadrillions) of people -- an estimate which, in and of itself, is simply staggering in its size, being approximately 16,666,667 times the number of people living on the planet Earth as of right now.

Publius

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

It seems that EU books and games seem to favor planets with small populations (millions-billions), and give small populations for larger planets. But, with dozens of millions of inhabited planets, there are probably hundreds of city planets, and millions of other planets with populations in the trillions that probably won't be mentioned.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Aagh! Publius, your explenations only makes it more complecated. Can't we just agree to use the American system from now on?

And yes, "Zillion" has never been a real number, only to mean "a really big number".

BTW: I believe "100 thousand billion" is "100 trillion", not "100 quadrillion".

[Publius]

You are correct, Spanky The Dolphin. It was a typographical error.

Publius

[tharkûn]

Okay "reality" check. People are talking about 100 trillion people per planet. Let's assume they are humans (or at least the average metabolism is). The human body when asleep gives off waste heat at a rate of of about 80W. Let's use that as our baseline. 80 W with 100 trillion people is 8 quadrillion watts (aka 8*10^18 W). Now the total amount of power coming from the sun is about 2*10^17 W. So you are looking at 40 times solar power just for body heat alone. Not to mention the coffe pots, curling irons, computers, and every other real world device which bleads heat (and no there is no such thing as a real world device which doesn't give off waste heat somewhere).

Or units I'll use in just a bit. Solar radiation should be somewhere around 1400 W/m^2 (what's expected to hit earth). Given a surface area of say 5*10^14 m^2 that amounts to about 16,000 W/m^2. Now roughly speaking temperature to the fourth varies with emissions (W/m^2). Let's treat our hypothetical planet as a nice black body. Given emissions near 16,000 W/m^2 we should see T^4 = ~ 2.8*10^11 so the temperature needed to radiate away that much waste heat would be about 720 K or 450 degrees C.

So here's my question where in hell is all this heat going? For all intents and purposes Corcuscant can't simply radiate away that much heat and most of its nonrecoverable (given the relatively minor difference between body temperature and atmospheric temperature habitable to humans). To actually have polar icecaps would be nigh to impossible ... the earth's have readily melted with a fraction of the amount of heat we are talking about.

In other words if you actually had a planet with 100 trillion human beings on it you'd be dumping so much waste heat into the planet the temperature would skyrocket (and you thought global warming was bad). Remember the puppeteer world in Ringworld ... they had to move their world to deal with the waste heat.

And remember all these numbers were built off using 100 trillion humans *asleep*, activity can see orders of magnitude increases in waste heat production. And then there are all the assorted gizmos and devices used in life that also emit waste heat. You can't refrigurate the heat away as there is nothing to dump the heat into.


Now unless I screwed the physics/math horridly (which I'm prone to do) you can't have worlds with that many beings without running into problems. 10's of billions, certainly. Hundreds of billions, likely. Trillions, possibly. 10'sof trillions, not likely, hundreds of trillions exceptionally unlikely.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Now unless I screwed the physics/math horridly (which I'm prone to do) you can't have worlds with that many beings without running into problems. 10's of billions, certainly. Hundreds of billions, likely. Trillions, possibly. 10'sof trillions, not likely, hundreds of trillions exceptionally unlikely.

Coruscant is on the cold end of the habitable range--so cold, in fact, that they need orbital mirrors to keep it warm.

According to Saxton's page
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/orbs.html#coruscant
Coruscant's sun is described in official literature as being "tiny," and is probably very cold. Cold enough, perhaps, to make the planet livable.

[Shadowhawk]

With that much waste heat being produced, Coruscant could have no sun and still be habitable.

I think that Coruscant's just got some sort of amazingly efficient heat-dump system that keeps the planet's temperature stable, like giant heat-dumping lasers pumping excess energy into space (like the Sundiver craft from the book Sundiver). It works so well, in fact, that they need to use mirrors to heat the upper latitudes.

[tharkûn]

With that much waste heat being produced, Coruscant could have no sun and still be habitable.
Umm no. Unless I screwed up the calcs with that much heat Coruscant would still be a burning hot hellhole with *no* solar radiation.

I think that Coruscant's just got some sort of amazingly efficient heat-dump system that keeps the planet's temperature stable, like giant heat-dumping lasers pumping excess energy into space (like the Sundiver craft from the book Sundiver). It works so well, in fact, that they need to use mirrors to heat the upper latitudes.

Umm this doesn't work, at least I don't so. If they keep Coruscant at room temperature you can only recover about 5% of the heat lost due to inefficiency (at least I think the Carnot equation should apply, could be wrong). Furthermore in the operation of said lasers you'd have inefficiencies, leading to more waste heat. I could be wrong, but I don't think you cool something with a laser without heating something else up more.

Besides you reaching here, they overuse a cooling system, and then use mirrors to heat the planet? Why not just pump some of the heat you are schucking with lasers to the higher altitudes?

Coruscant is on the cold end of the habitable range--so cold, in fact, that they need orbital mirrors to keep it warm.

According to Saxton's page
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/orbs.html#coruscant
Coruscant's sun is described in official literature as being "tiny," and is probably very cold. Cold enough, perhaps, to make the planet livable.

It doesn't matter, I completely ignored the solar radiation when I used the black body modle to calculate the temperature. The difference between 16,000 W/m^2 and 18,000 W/m^2 is not enough allow the planet to have liquid water, let alone ice caps. The waste of the bodies alone is enough

The simplest explanation, in my opinion, is that Coruscant simply does not have 100 trillion people. Remember my figures are *extremely* conservative. We could rerun them using the average power output of a human (we only sleep half the time); include the all the power lost from things as simple as computer screens, coffee pots, electrical wires, and every other powered device; and throw in a fraction of the earth's solar radiation ... this would likely push ambient temperature up over 1000k easily.

Unless I'm screwing up the physics/math I don't see how you can sustain 100 trillion people on a planet.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

A quadrillion is 1^15, not 1^18. And the sun's output is 10^26 watts. Mike debated something like this with someone with the alias of "Stilgar" on his mail page.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Anyone have a fix for tharkun's calcs?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Don't resurrect dead threads.

[Eleas]

Unless I'm screwing up the physics/math I don't see how you can sustain 100 trillion people on a planet.

Tharkûn, before you happily dismiss onscreen evidence, tell me, how does a shield operate?