DS acceleration oddity

[DarkStar]

Refers to: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... l#Sublight

In the above, Wong suggests that we trust the Rebel screen over the Imperial readout in order to determine the speed of the Death Star.

However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly after the Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in firing position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death Star is orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.)

Wong shows us the Rebel screen readout at 15, 5, and 0 minutes from the Death Star's reaching of firing position. While we cannot see on this screen where the ship was located at 30 minutes out, we can certainly see that _if_ the Rebel screen is positionally accurate, and given that the DS was already at maximum velocity, the Death Star would have been in a prime firing location 30 minutes prior, but from the other side of the planet. In other words, instead of simply turning around (if they even needed to), they made an orbit of the planet for no good reason. If they had, in fact, needed to turn around to target the moon, they could have simply dropped out of hyperspace sooner.

So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and the Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally accurate (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel screen), or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation.

[Mr Bean]

Your Forgetting Possibliy Three
Tarkin wanted to know they where coming

Notice how they delbratly droped out where the Rebels could spot them when they could have simply double jumped out father then back in and had no waiting time

Considering what we know of Tarkin it is entirely possible the entire thing was just an ego trip for him
IE Look here we come with da big bad gun and you can't do jack
(The fact they could was a suprize to him, oh well)

[Aaron2]

One thing to keep in mind, the Death Star was tracking the Millenium Falcon as it was traveling to Yavin ("where all the idealists hang out", as Han said). Its likely that they didn't know where they were going until they got there. They probably exited hyperspace at the same place that the MF did but the MF was much faster and got to Yavin while the DS had to slowly cruise around the planet.


Aaron

[DarkStar]

Your Forgetting Possibliy Three
Tarkin wanted to know they where coming

I see no psychological reason for Tarkin to play Peek-a-boo. They wanted to destroy the Rebellion. Popping up and then hiding behind the planet for several minutes (giving your enemy time to run like hell) is not consistent with trying to kill someone.

If he was going for the psychological effects, he would have dropped out over the planet, and then just sat there over the base, letting them see this monstrosity and feel the gravitation from it.

[DarkStar]

One thing to keep in mind, the Death Star was tracking the Millenium Falcon as it was traveling to Yavin ("where all the idealists hang out", as Han said). Its likely that they didn't know where they were going until they got there. They probably exited hyperspace at the same place that the MF did but the MF was much faster and got to Yavin while the DS had to slowly cruise around the planet.

Doesn't follow. The Imperials would have to know what the system looked like. Even if it had been 1000 years since the last time someone saw the system, they could have worked out where the moon should've been. Even if they didn't know that, they could have simply turned and shot it.

[Aaron2]

Doesn't follow. The Imperials would have to know what the system looked like. Even if it had been 1000 years since the last time someone saw the system, they could have worked out where the moon should've been. Even if they didn't know that, they could have simply turned and shot it.

They didn't know that the base was on the moon, the planet, or in a space on a space platform until after they came out of hyperspace. Of course, they could have just destroyed the planet anyway which probably would have made a mess of the rebel base.

Good thing that the Empire goes out of their way to avoid uneccessary destruction.


Aaron

[SirNitram]

It doesn't surprise me that Dark Star's stunted brain capacity can't process 'Scare Tactic' or 'Intimidation Factor'.

[TheDarkling]

Tarkin in his usual state of ego mania may have exited hyperspace and slowly moved up to the rebel base but I dont think he would have been in weapons range then done a once round the moon for fun.

[Mr. B]

On Yavin 4 they would keep seeing the DS getting bigger and bigger. That is intimidation.

[Master of Ossus]

It would be like AT-AT walkers approaching a position guarded entirely with infantry. There was supposed to be nothing that the Alliance could have done to stop the weapon.

[Mr Bean]

May I remind the bright fokes who want to blow up Yavin thats its a GAS GIANT
THERE IS NOTHING TO PUT 1^34EJ OF ENGERY INTO!
Well prehaps a small area where the gas is compresed into soild form but the simple fact its a GAS giant, Not much to blow up

[Howedar]

However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly after the Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in firing position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death Star is orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.)

You simply betray your utter lack of knowledge about anything. For a given orbital altitude, there is a speed at which a non-accelerated object will travel. If the object goes faster than that, it will open up its orbit, if it goes slower, it will begin to fall towards the planet (or sun, moon, etc). If one wishes to go faster than this speed, one must thrust outward to hold one's ship in that orbit. The maximum speed of the DS in that orbit would be limited by the acceleration it could achieve towards the planet.

[SirNitram]

May I remind the bright fokes who want to blow up Yavin thats its a GAS GIANT
THERE IS NOTHING TO PUT 1^34EJ OF ENGERY INTO!
Well prehaps a small area where the gas is compresed into soild form but the simple fact its a GAS giant, Not much to blow up

Oh, they could blow it up. It'd require an even higher power setting, and then they'd have to recharge the superlaser for another firing after that to take out Yavin 4, giving the Rebels a chance to make a run for it. Gee, brilliant plan there nutjobs.

[Wicked Pilot]

or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation.

No, you are the one who is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation you twit. If at least one of your two working brain cells wasn't smoking crack, you'd realize that the Death Star's orbit is Retrograde.

Try, just try to understand that. It's not that hard.

[Crazy_Vasey]

or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation.

No, you are the one who is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation you twit. If at least one of your two working brain cells wasn't smoking crack, you'd realize that the Death Star's orbit is Retrograde.

Try, just try to understand that. It's not that hard.

This may sound newbieish but what's a retrograde orbit when it's at home?

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation.

No, you are the one who is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation you twit. If at least one of your two working brain cells wasn't smoking , you'd realize that the Star's orbit is Retrograde.

Try, just try to understand that. It's not that hard.

This may sound newbieish but what's a retrograde orbit when it's at home?

I can't find a dictionary, so I'll try to break it up.

Retrospect= Long run
Retro= Long
Grade= Angle?

[Mr. B]

This is why he is the village idiot.

[Mayhem]

Quick note... did you consider the possibility that the first 15 minutes or so were spent on a straight line trajectory to actually gt into orbit in the first place?

[Master of Ossus]

This is why he is the village idiot.

Among other reasons....

[Wicked Pilot]

A retrograde orbit is an orbit that goes in the opposite direction of the majority of orbits in a system. For example, all satellites above earth travel from west to east, or counterclockwise when viewed from above the North pole. A satellite traveling from east to west, or clockwise, has a retrograde orbit.

By saying that the Death Star is in a retrograde orbit, I'm saying it's traveling the opposite direction of the moon. All things being equal, it would be quicker to "catch" the moon by traveling at it head on, as opposed to playing catch up.

Visual Aide: Y=Yavin, M=Moon, D=Death Star

Initial Approach: The Moon is traveling clockwise around Yavin as viewed. The Death Star's velocity is directly toward Yavin. Which way should the Death Star turn, left, or right?

......M.................
.........................
..........YY...........
........YYYY..........
..........YY............
..........................
..........................
...........D.............

Those of you with a working frontal lobe will say turn right, and have a higher closing velocity. Village Idiots like Darkstar will say turn left, it's closer that way. But then you'd have to play catch up, which will take more time. I hope this enlightens you people as to what I say when I said the Death Star went into a retrograde orbit.

[Master of Ossus]

A retrograde orbit is an orbit that goes in the opposite direction of the majority of orbits in a system. For example, all satellites above earth travel from west to east, or counterclockwise when viewed from above the North pole. A satellite traveling from east to west, or clockwise, has a retrograde orbit.

By saying that the Death Star is in a retrograde orbit, I'm saying it's traveling the opposite direction of the moon. All things being equal, it would be quicker to "catch" the moon by traveling at it head on, as opposed to playing catch up.

Visual Aide: Y=Yavin, M=Moon, D=Death Star

Initial Approach: The Moon is traveling clockwise around Yavin as viewed. The Death Star's velocity is directly toward Yavin. Which way should the Death Star turn, left, or right?

......M.................
.........................
..........YY...........
........YYYY..........
..........YY............
..........................
..........................
...........D.............

Those of you with a working frontal lobe will say turn right, and have a higher closing velocity. Village Idiots like Darkstar will say turn left, it's closer that way. But then you'd have to play catch up, which will take more time. I hope this enlightens you people as to what I say when I said the Death Star went into a retrograde orbit.

Thank you, kind sir, for pointing out another example of DarkStar's idiocy.

BTW, Smi, are you named after the character in Peter Pan? How did you choose that name?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

hehehe, visual aids.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

No, it was supposed to be Smithee, but I ran out of space.

[SPOOFE]

TheDarkling is ignoring the simple fact that the Death Star didn't know the exact location of the Rebel base the instant it arrived in system (although they DID know where it was as soon as we, the audience, were told that they had arrived). It's possible that the Death Star had already accelerated in a certain direction and they just didn't want to try to counter their momentum.

[TheDarkling]

Thats possible but it would have made more sense to look at the indicator for the tracker before moving.