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We saw in ESB that Luke had not completed his training. AT the end, Vader bitch slapped Luke and didn't kill him because he was trying to take him alive. ESB Luke's weapon of choice is the blaster. He keeps it with him and on Cloud City that is the weapon he is using up until he confronts Vader. His Prescience doesn't seem to be anywhere near Prequel Jedi level, it doesn't warn him of Boba Fett's surprise attack or the trap that he walks into on cloud city nor does he feel comfortable enough to try and deflect blaster fire with his saber.

Yet in ROTJ lightsaber deuling wise he is holding his own against Vader and even sending the Darklord tumbling down a flight of stairs, completely abandons the blaster for the lightsaber. His prescience is now so good that he easily deflects volleys of blaster fire (Sarlac pit), can feel Vader's presence on the Executor from many kilometers away (He could not feel Vader's presence even in the same Carbon Freeze move until Vader announced himself) and can feel when Vader is on the Forest Moon.

Could ESB Luke have rescued Han as he did in ROTJ. I think its safe to say no.

So what accounts for this sharp increase and ability in skill? He didn't see Yoda again until midway through ROTJ. Self training for three years (between ANH and ESB) only got him powerful enough to yank a lightsaber out of a snow bank a meter away.

Shadows goes into a bit of detail.

But let's take that out and focus soley on the what the movies show...I'd say like a martial artist. When you're a white belt going up to a Yellow...what not...your skills are nothing.(If you're being trained correctly...not some blasted McDojo) But I digress. You have little in the wya of any skill and you're unfamilar to what to practice upon, what to actually improve.

But take someone who's been a black belt...he/she knows what areas to focus upon, where to relearn and improve.

Similar to Luke...he really had no idea what to practice and did so probably haphazardly.

After Yoda he knew what to focus upon and what to improve upon.

Is it shadows of the empire where he comes across several "revelations" about the force and how to control it?

That could account for some of his apparent increase in skill.

Stravo wrote: So what accounts for this sharp increase and ability in skill? He didn't see Yoda again until midway through ROTJ. Self training for three years (between ANH and ESB) only got him powerful enough to yank a lightsaber out of a snow bank a meter away.

Ben hadn't really had enough time to teach Luke in ANH (hours? a day or two?) and Luke AFAIK hadn't really bothered training much (he was more involved with the rebellion and other matters.) Even if he did, Ben's "quickie" instruction could not have possibly given him any sort of insight into how to achieve various feats. Anything he did was likely due to talent exercised under trying circumstances or duress (as in he needed his saber in his hand, the Force allowed him to do it - an unconscious reflex, not a deliberate exercise of power. Much like Anakin's podracing or his fixing machines.)

In TESB, he'd been under Yoda's instructions for a much LONGER period of time, and was given better understanding of how to do things. And in the intervening time between TESB and ROTJ, he DID do more training (as someone mentioned already.) and having had more formalized instruction, he knows HOW to do things now, so its a matter of honing the skills he's already been given. It also probably didn't hurt that Luke spent time at Ben's home on Tattooine when he was building his lightsaber, so he probably had access to other materials to further help his training along.

That said, also keep in mind that his trainign could be said to be very.. specialized. He was destined to fight/defeat Vader, meaning that an emphasis on combat-oriented disciplines and training would occur (which also means he can probably be trained more quickly, but this was still probably dangerous and only illustrated the desperate situation they faced.)

Zac Naloen wrote:Is it shadows of the empire where he comes across several "revelations" about the force and how to control it?

That could account for some of his apparent increase in skill.

The only revelation he "learns' is I suppose completely trusting the Force -being more receptive to it allowing it to more openly "flow" through him (much as discussed in the movies, really.) This doesn't in and of itself really "help" explain improvement - he still needs the more formal trtaining he received under Yoda. He WAS shown to be training himself more while on Tatooine (or at least finishing it up, while Lando and Leia were out uhnting for Han.), so he obviously DID also dedicate time to honing his already-existing abilities.

And it should be noted that some of the abilities he demonstrated in TESB (the Forcee-jump from the carbon freeze chamber), demonstrate quantitative abilities comparable to what Prequel Jedi have accomplished (either leaping, or just "running" - I'm talking accelerative capabilities.) So he's easily comparable to a Padawan or even a novice Knight by the end of TESB (small wonder Vader stomped him.) - but given another year or so of training now that he knows what to do.. and he's much more effective.

Luke after his tenure with Yoda, As Yoda admitted when he came back, Luke had already learned what he needed to know. To Luke's credit, he did resist Vader's attempts to turn him to the Dark Side so he was more ready than both Obi-Wan and Yoda giving him credit for. It seems he did not completely beleive that Vader was his father until the meeting with Yoda in Jedi. Losing to Vader seems to have guided him to the skills he needed to truly be a Jedi.

It does seem that his training in Empire was the crash course rather than the full Jedi Training. Luke did not have the luxery of being able to go to the Jedi Temple and study the archives. The best he had was what Ben had in his house.

In SOTE, it also talks about Luke finding a manual in Ben's house for building a lightsaber, as well as some of the parts; it wouldn't surprise me if Ben had pencilled notes in the margins about Force skills related to building the lightsaber, as well as those useful in lightsaber duelling (which makes sense, really... you write a book about how to make a blade, you gotta show what it's for and how to use it). This would explain well enough Luke's improvement in fighting Vader-- he knew what to improve upon, what he needed to get a handle on.

Elheru Aran wrote:In SOTE, it also talks about Luke finding a manual in Ben's house for building a lightsaber, as well as some of the parts; it wouldn't surprise me if Ben had pencilled notes in the margins about Force skills related to building the lightsaber, as well as those useful in lightsaber duelling (which makes sense, really... you write a book about how to make a blade, you gotta show what it's for and how to use it). This would explain well enough Luke's improvement in fighting Vader-- he knew what to improve upon, what he needed to get a handle on.

That always seemed like a nice little idea, explaining where the new lightsaber came from and all that, thought SOTE filled in the blanks rather nicely without having to invent much in the way of new crap. But you do have to wonder if the minute the Emperor and Vader found that Obi Wan had been on Tattooine, they might have done some investigating and found his house. Half of the EU (generalisation, I know KJA relied on it) seemed to go back there at some point.

Another thing to wonder is that in the book of force skills and lightsaber schematics whether there werent a few little doodles of nothing in particular in the margin, perhaps an old jedi's shopping list - hairnet, tin of meat for the krayt dragon, that sort of thing.

They would not have been very likely to find it. It was out beyond the Dune Sea in in the Jutland Wastes, which is not a real safe place to go hanging around if you don't know where you are.

A minor note in Force Commander they do search Kenobi's House. Obviously not doing much. Of course that is a computer game

It talks in the RotJ novelisation of Luke finishing his lightsabre and putting it into R2. So SotE isn't the only source of Luke doing this.

Stravo wrote:We saw in ESB that Luke had not completed his training. AT the end, Vader bitch slapped Luke and didn't kill him because he was trying to take him alive. ESB Luke's weapon of choice is the blaster. He keeps it with him and on Cloud City that is the weapon he is using up until he confronts Vader. His Prescience doesn't seem to be anywhere near Prequel Jedi level, it doesn't warn him of Boba Fett's surprise attack or the trap that he walks into on cloud city nor does he feel comfortable enough to try and deflect blaster fire with his saber.

Yet in ROTJ lightsaber deuling wise he is holding his own against Vader and even sending the Darklord tumbling down a flight of stairs, completely abandons the blaster for the lightsaber. His prescience is now so good that he easily deflects volleys of blaster fire (Sarlac pit), can feel Vader's presence on the Executor from many kilometers away (He could not feel Vader's presence even in the same Carbon Freeze move until Vader announced himself) and can feel when Vader is on the Forest Moon.

Could ESB Luke have rescued Han as he did in ROTJ. I think its safe to say no.

So what accounts for this sharp increase and ability in skill? He didn't see Yoda again until midway through ROTJ. Self training for three years (between ANH and ESB) only got him powerful enough to yank a lightsaber out of a snow bank a meter away.

If it hasn;t been already said Luke went back to Yoda after the End of ESB, then broke his training again. It's mostly EU but the movie novelizations hint at it too.

That's what i always figured; He went back to Dagobah for a while (how much time elapsed between TESB and ROTJ, anyway; the novels' timeline says TESB is 3 years after ANH, ROTJ is 4, but that doesn't mean there's a year between them).

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:

Stravo wrote:We saw in ESB that Luke had not completed his training. AT the end, Vader bitch slapped Luke and didn't kill him because he was trying to take him alive. ESB Luke's weapon of choice is the blaster. He keeps it with him and on Cloud City that is the weapon he is using up until he confronts Vader. His Prescience doesn't seem to be anywhere near Prequel Jedi level, it doesn't warn him of Boba Fett's surprise attack or the trap that he walks into on cloud city nor does he feel comfortable enough to try and deflect blaster fire with his saber.

Yet in ROTJ lightsaber deuling wise he is holding his own against Vader and even sending the Darklord tumbling down a flight of stairs, completely abandons the blaster for the lightsaber. His prescience is now so good that he easily deflects volleys of blaster fire (Sarlac pit), can feel Vader's presence on the Executor from many kilometers away (He could not feel Vader's presence even in the same Carbon Freeze move until Vader announced himself) and can feel when Vader is on the Forest Moon.

Could ESB Luke have rescued Han as he did in ROTJ. I think its safe to say no.

So what accounts for this sharp increase and ability in skill? He didn't see Yoda again until midway through ROTJ. Self training for three years (between ANH and ESB) only got him powerful enough to yank a lightsaber out of a snow bank a meter away.

If it hasn;t been already said Luke went back to Yoda after the End of ESB, then broke his training again. It's mostly EU but the movie novelizations hint at it too.

Where in the EU, again ?

andrewgpaul wrote:That's what i always figured; He went back to Dagobah for a while (how much time elapsed between TESB and ROTJ, anyway; the novels' timeline says TESB is 3 years after ANH, ROTJ is 4, but that doesn't mean there's a year between them).

According to ROTJ novel it is two years between ESB and ROTJ.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:

andrewgpaul wrote:That's what i always figured; He went back to Dagobah for a while (how much time elapsed between TESB and ROTJ, anyway; the novels' timeline says TESB is 3 years after ANH, ROTJ is 4, but that doesn't mean there's a year between them).

According to ROTJ novel it is two years between ESB and ROTJ.

Ummm...which page given that I remember the novel saying Months....not years.

No, the EU novels, especially the later ones, give dates relative to ANH (usually a 2-page spread just inside the front cover) TESB is 3 years after ANH, ROTJ is 4. However, you're right; the actual dates (say for Solo's freezing and his thawing) could be as little as weeks (say, if TESB was in December, ROTJ was in the following January).

Ghost Rider wrote:

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:

andrewgpaul wrote:That's what i always figured; He went back to Dagobah for a while (how much time elapsed between TESB and ROTJ, anyway; the novels' timeline says TESB is 3 years after ANH, ROTJ is 4, but that doesn't mean there's a year between them).

According to ROTJ novel it is two years between ESB and ROTJ.

Ummm...which page given that I remember the novel saying Months....not years.

I'd have to look again, but even most time lines put it at around two years after ESB.

Last time I checked it was a six month time span between Jedi and ESB and it is strongly implied that Luke never went back. Otherwise why look shocked when he saw Yoda looking so old. And his promise to keep to an old friend? "I'll be back. I promise." ESB. "I've come back to complete the training." ROTJ.

which is also possible - if, say, TESB occurred in January, ROTJ occurred the following December (all dates 'translated')

Also most timelines agree a year span between ESB and RoTJ...and at the mid point is when SoTE occurs, at the six month mark.

The ROTJ novelization not only mentions Luke's construction of his own lightsabre, but also says he built it in Ben's hut, with Ben's spare parts and instructions on how to do so. It's possibly green because the crystal is from Qui-Gon's old sabre.

The ITW of the OT also mentions that Ben's hut had Jedi teaching material in it, besides lightsabre instructions, IIRC.

Yes in Shadows, Luke found a book in Bens house which included, amoung other things, instructions on building a new Light Saber. It was protected by a thumb scanner and accepted Lukes right thumb (if someone had tried to force the book, a flashpack would have detonated and destroyed it). He made his own crystal accoridng to Shadows using a kind of 'oven' in the house specificaly there for that purpose.

The book also comments about his connection with the force deepening as well as his skills. He was able to use mind tricks for the first time on bounty hunters who had captured him as well as deflect blaster fire en mass with his lightsabre. Vader wasn't happy that they lost him, but was pleased that Luks skills were increasing.