StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I need to ask a few questions for a story debate I'm doing over at SB.com

1. What is the maximum ranges for turbolasers and torpedos, was it WEG that stated 72 million kms?

2. What is the maximum effective range, in cases of heavy jamming, of TLs and heavy torpedos(such as the ones for the acclamator).

3. Would it be possible for a long range fire support vessel to sit at long range, and by using sensor data from a ship much closer to battle, accurately fire torpedos/TLs?

4. What are the advantages and disadvantages of turbolaser cannons was turbolaser batteries? Assuming the 2 are at equal strength.

thanks

gamesguy wrote:I need to ask a few questions for a story debate I'm doing over at SB.com

1. What is the maximum ranges for turbolasers and torpedos, was it WEG that stated 72 million kms?

2. What is the maximum effective range, in cases of heavy jamming, of TLs and heavy torpedos(such as the ones for the acclamator).

Not clear. Range is actually very difficult to measure. SW ships are at the very least able to bombard planets from orbit quite easily. In the Rebel Dream saga, a cosmetically altered turbolaser scored a hit on a YV ship from outside of the system! A range of hundreds of millions of km's at least (and probably billions). On the other hand, combat range is fairly small, due to difficulties targetting maneuvering ships in an environment heavy with ECM. Effective combat range for SW ships appears to be on the order of several hundred km's for capital ships, and a few km's for starfighters.

3. Would it be possible for a long range fire support vessel to sit at long range, and by using sensor data from a ship much closer to battle, accurately fire torpedos/TLs?

Yes. It's been done before, by Rogue Squadron and modified freighters, over Thyferra. Also, IIRC, there's a decipher card that suggests that Imperial TIE's have been modified specifically to feed sensor data to other starships for the same purpose.

4. What are the advantages and disadvantages of turbolaser cannons was turbolaser batteries? Assuming the 2 are at equal strength.

thanks

If they're of equal strength? I guess that the cannons would be able to track individual targets better than a battery could, but the battery requires less internal space for mounts and such, and is probably better at delivering fire to a given point. It also may require fewer targetting computers, crew, etc.

gamesguy wrote:I need to ask a few questions for a story debate I'm doing over at SB.com

1. What is the maximum ranges for turbolasers and torpedos, was it WEG that stated 72 million kms?

2. What is the maximum effective range, in cases of heavy jamming, of TLs and heavy torpedos(such as the ones for the acclamator).

3. Would it be possible for a long range fire support vessel to sit at long range, and by using sensor data from a ship much closer to battle, accurately fire torpedos/TLs?

4. What are the advantages and disadvantages of turbolaser cannons was turbolaser batteries? Assuming the 2 are at equal strength.

thanks

I'll answer number 3 first, yes it is in addition to the previously mentioned incidents the IR and NR at Ithor used the Interdictor to feed them targeting information when they blasted the Legacy of Torment in DT: Ruin. Also, the TIE previously referred to is the TIE/fire control and is used to enhance the accuracy of capital ships firing on other ships or ground targets from long-range.
1. I'd suggest going to Brian Young's or Curtis Saxton's website they have a lot of information on the ranges of TLs.
2. I think Saxton worked out the range at the beginning of the Battle of Endor to be a few thousand kms, also considering that visual targeting is the only reliable method in a high ECM environment to hit anything and that it has been established that ISDs can be seen from a few thousand klicks away the max range in an agressive EW environment is probably 3-5 thousand kms for capital ships and probably not much more than a dozen for starfighters.

2. I think Saxton worked out the range at the beginning of the Battle of Endor to be a few thousand kms, also considering that visual targeting is the only reliable method in a high ECM environment to hit anything and that it has been established that ISDs can be seen from a few thousand klicks away the max range in an agressive EW environment is probably 3-5 thousand kms for capital ships and probably not much more than a dozen for starfighters.

would it be possible to get visual targetting data from a ship close to battle(say at near point blank range) and trangularte its position, thereby allowing other vessels to fire from long ranges?

oh and what is the difference between a battery and cannon, assuming the same size in this incidence.

This answer is more for artillary but...

A cannon is one piece(gun), while a battery is a group of pieces.

gamesguy wrote: 3. Would it be possible for a long range fire support vessel to sit at long range, and by using sensor data from a ship much closer to battle, accurately fire torpedos/TLs?

During the battle of Ithor, as the Vong fleet was retreating and may even have had the planet partially blocking them from the Republic fleet weapons fire, an Interdictor cruiser jumped in front of the Vong fleet, used it's gravity well projectors to muddle their biotech, and then sent targetting data to the Republic fleet so their torpedoes came all the way around and smacked the Vong flagship hard.

And in Rebel Dream, a Vong Worldship (pretty big, anywhere from 20 to 100 kilometers in length judging from average worldship size- the worldships are basicly big colony/troopships) was in orbit over Coruscant (so they knew where it would be)- a ship on the edge of the system fired a shot timed to intersect that orbit, and it smacked right into the worldship.

Can you guys answer a couple more questions for me plz?

A. evaluate this defense plz(its for a SW SD).

1. Planetary shield+surface batteries
2. Golan III stations in geosync orbit
3. Asteroids with a single v-150 ion cannon, torp launchers, and VSD level shielding. Also in geosync orbit.
4. Interspersed between the planet and extending to pretty far out(say a million kms) are small sensor/comm relays, use to feed info and provide coordinated firepower for the defense stations, especially since they will have to fire long range and probably under heavy jamming.
5. A primary minefield layer, covering all the possible apporach vectors, with pulse mass mines in the middle of them to pull ships out of hyperspace straight into the said mine field.
6. A secondary minefield around the defense stations and the planet, to prevent ships from running around the defense stations.
7. Remote sensor posts on the edge of the system, used to activate the pulse mass mines.
8. A few patrol ships, but the vast majority of response comes from a base approximately 100 lys away, the said base provides defense for a bunch of different worlds.



B. What would be the best way to take down a vanilla executor class SSD? I can commite somewhere around 15 custom ships worth 2 ISDs each, a couple dozen modernized/beefed up battle dragons, a couple dozen torpedo destroyers(each mounts 120 accalamator sized torp launchers), a hundred or so modernized/beefed up nova cruisers, and a thousand or so corvettes. The said SSD will probably have a large escort, but the escort can be dealt with by other ships.

I was thinking along the lines of having all my torp destroyers(which can be as high as 50 if I pull everything) shoot at it, my nova cruisers run to point blank range and generally screw with their formations, and finally having some(200+?) suicide corvettes packed with explosives to ram that SSD.

gamesguy wrote:Can you guys answer a couple more questions for me plz?

A. evaluate this defense plz(its for a SW SD).

1. Planetary shield+surface batteries
2. Golan III stations in geosync orbit
3. Asteroids with a single v-150 ion cannon, torp launchers, and VSD level shielding. Also in geosync orbit.
4. Interspersed between the planet and extending to pretty far out(say a million kms) are small sensor/comm relays, use to feed info and provide coordinated firepower for the defense stations, especially since they will have to fire long range and probably under heavy jamming.
5. A primary minefield layer, covering all the possible apporach vectors, with pulse mass mines in the middle of them to pull ships out of hyperspace straight into the said mine field.
6. A secondary minefield around the defense stations and the planet, to prevent ships from running around the defense stations.
7. Remote sensor posts on the edge of the system, used to activate the pulse mass mines.
8. A few patrol ships, but the vast majority of response comes from a base approximately 100 lys away, the said base provides defense for a bunch of different worlds.

Very nice defense setup, similar to the Battle of Coruscant. Unfortunately it wasn't enough to stop tens of thousands of Vong ships, but the minefield DID wipe out a bunch of them and it took thousands of ramming attacks to take out the planetary shield.

And it had thousands of capital ships in orbit, too.

B. What would be the best way to take down a vanilla executor class SSD? I can commite somewhere around 15 custom ships worth 2 ISDs each, a couple dozen modernized/beefed up battle dragons, a couple dozen torpedo destroyers(each mounts 120 accalamator sized torp launchers), a hundred or so modernized/beefed up nova cruisers, and a thousand or so corvettes. The said SSD will probably have a large escort, but the escort can be dealt with by other ships.

I was thinking along the lines of having all my torp destroyers(which can be as high as 50 if I pull everything) shoot at it, my nova cruisers run to point blank range and generally screw with their formations, and finally having some(200+?) suicide corvettes packed with explosives to ram that SSD.

All out attack would be the best way. Slam it with everything you've got. You can't really miss a ship that size, so just bring in everything, use your smaller ships to take out his fighters and your bigger ships to just pound it.

If you can get some ships behind it, the rear has the least amount of weapons (as seen in the Bacta War, in which the SSD wasn't able to destroy a frigate stuck behind its engines, though the frigate wasn't doing much damage to the SSD either ).

In the newest Clone Wars novel, Jedi Trial, the Centax-class heavy frigate comes equipped with a battery of two MG1-A proton torpedo tubes, with a range of 3,000 km. Also of note is the fact that a single salvo of these was sufficient to incapacitate a Trade Federation droid control ship.

A droid control ship as in a full Lucrehulk-class battleship or the Lucrehulk-class control core?

It seems somewhat ridiculous for a Lucrehulk-class battleship to be outright incapacitated by a single pair of even enormous torpedoes.

Incidentally, this supports my suspicions that Star Wars frigate variants serve the roles that attack submarines and torpedo boats do in real world navies.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:A droid control ship as in a full Lucrehulk-class battleship or the Lucrehulk-class control core?

It seems somewhat ridiculous for a Lucrehulk-class battleship to be outright incapacitated by a single pair of even enormous torpedoes.

Incidentally, this supports my suspicions that Star Wars frigate variants serve the roles that attack submarines and torpedo boats do in real world navies.

For all we know, those two torpedo tubes are capable of rapid firing a hundred torpedoes in one volley

Illuminatus Primus wrote:A droid control ship as in a full Lucrehulk-class battleship or the Lucrehulk-class control core?

It seems somewhat ridiculous for a Lucrehulk-class battleship to be outright incapacitated by a single pair of even enormous torpedoes.

Incidentally, this supports my suspicions that Star Wars frigate variants serve the roles that attack submarines and torpedo boats do in real world navies.

if that was true, we run into all kinds of problems, such as why the VSD I got "upgraded" to VSD II when the I model was far better with its 80 missile launchers.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:A droid control ship as in a full Lucrehulk-class battleship or the Lucrehulk-class control core?

It seems somewhat ridiculous for a Lucrehulk-class battleship to be outright incapacitated by a single pair of even enormous torpedoes.

It was never specified, the novel only stated "droid control ship", I'm inclined to believe that it was only a control core, since as you said, for a battleship to be taken out by a single volley is a little bit ridiculous.

gamesguy wrote: 1. What is the maximum ranges for turbolasers and torpedos, was it WEG that stated 72 million kms?

Ossus mostly covered that. The "Superlaser" had a range of 47 million km in the STar Wars Technical Journal. TESB (including the novel and radio drama) indicate Vader wished to execute a tactical bombardment of Hoth from outside the system, which suggests ranges in the light second if not light-minute range. This is generally consistent depending on your sources (Destiny's Way, Ambush at Corellia, Rogue Planet, Star by Star, The Last Command, Showdown at Centerpoint, etc.)

Missile ranges are only limited by acceleration and active flight time. Generally missile accelerations seem to be in the tens to hundreds of thousnads of gees (severla hundred km/s^2 to thousands of km/s^2) as per ANH and Destiny's Way, and active flight times of at least 8-10 seconds.. possibly up to a minute or more (TIE fighter, the Rogue Squadron books, Tyrant's Test, etc.)

2. What is the maximum effective range, in cases of heavy jamming, of TLs and heavy torpedos(such as the ones for the acclamator).

Based on ROTJ, its in the thosuands of km (at least several times the DS's diamater.. possibly as high as 10-12,000 km or so.) the original EGW&T and the Black Fleet crisis also indicated that fleet battles also occur at "thousands" of kilometers, supportting that assertion. Tens of thousands of kilometers or more are known (The Last Command, the Black fleet Crisis) and at relatavistic speeds (at least), ranges increase greatly (multiple light-seconds, as per Star by Star/Destiny's Way.)

3. Would it be possible for a long range fire support vessel to sit at long range, and by using sensor data from a ship much closer to battle, accurately fire torpedos/TLs?

Probably. There is a class of TIE fighters dedicated to fire-control duties for this express purpose - they provide targeting data for capital ship and fighter weaponry against targets.

4. What are the advantages and disadvantages of turbolaser cannons was turbolaser batteries? Assuming the 2 are at equal strength.

Assuming comparable strength: A single turret throws out only a couple of bolts (depending on how many barrels), but the enerrgy of the bolts is much more concentrtated than you get in the bolts from a battery. Unfortunately, the turret is also considerably larger due to power output and the necessity of recoil compensation. As a consequence, this tends to make the turret slower.

A "battery" is generally composed of multiple turrets. Each bolt is individually weaker than the single "turret" above, and the energy is less concentrated (unless coordination is pretty good), but the recoil is much less (meaning the turret turns more quickly) , and it allows the "battery" to engage multiple targets independently.

gamesguy wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:A droid control ship as in a full Lucrehulk-class battleship or the Lucrehulk-class control core?

It seems somewhat ridiculous for a Lucrehulk-class battleship to be outright incapacitated by a single pair of even enormous torpedoes.

Incidentally, this supports my suspicions that Star Wars frigate variants serve the roles that attack submarines and torpedo boats do in real world navies.

if that was true, we run into all kinds of problems, such as why the VSD I got "upgraded" to VSD II when the I model was far better with its 80 missile launchers.

According to Starships of the Galaxy by WOTC the VSD I has 20 missile tubes with 4 missiles per tube and if you factor in the accounts of VSDs able to unload all their missiles on a single target it seems to me you have support for SW ships able to rapid-fire volleys of missiles. Plus in the BFC the Vanguard fired 7 missiles and could have fired 8 but one blew up in the tube, yet the CTD says the Warrior Gunship only has 4 missile launchers so it could be the Vanguard could fire at least 2 missiles from each tube. Also, it could be the distinction between missile launcher and missile tube is similar to how the MLRS has a rocket launch system made up of 12 tubes, so ti could be tubes refers to how many missiles can be fired at once but missile launchers could contain several missile tubes