StarDestroyer.Net BBS

... the last time we had a "Why can't R2s speak Basic" blurb, an explanation was given that the Vocoder would have cost money, and that they don't really need to speak Basic that often, so there was no point in wasting three credits to install a speaker that would utter Basic properly.

But wait! R2 already had a speaker of the requisite quality! He had to, in order to play back Princess Leia's holorecording with passable sound quality. And the WEG stats imply that the holoprojector facilities are hardly unique to R2D2.

He also knows how to listen to Basic, so he knows what the various acoustic modulations mean. He should be able to replicate those modulations into something passable - if he had a speaker to utter it with, which he does

Why doesn't the droid ever figure that it can speak Basic merely by feeding the appropriate aural modulations (which it knows) into the holoprojection unit instead of his crappy Beeper?

Why doesn't, for the matter, any humans? I mean, perhaps the functional is of marginal utility, but now it doesn't cost extra to install, not even a single cred. Just a small change in software could have done it.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Why doesn't the droid ever figure that it can speak Basic merely by feeding the appropriate aural modulations (which it knows) into the holoprojection unit instead of his crappy Beeper?

Why doesn't, for the matter, any humans? I mean, perhaps the functional is of marginal utility, but now it doesn't cost extra to install, not even a single cred. Just a small change in software could have done it.

It might not be that simple. It could take a little hardwiring, assuming the holoprojector is a standalone unit. Additionally, the droid may not even want to speak basic - and even if it does, most droids are very simple minded when it comes to sticking to their programming. Finally, humans doesn't seem to have any need for it to speak basic. They understand R2s anyway.

nightmare wrote:Finally, humans doesn't seem to have any need for it to speak basic. They understand R2s anyway.

No they don't. When Luke's in his X-Wing R2 displays his speech on the screen. Quotes like

if you're saying coming here was a bad idea, I'm beginning to agree with you

also show he doesn't understand (quote is from memory, so may be off).

That's inconclusive, Sharp-kun. Luke may not know droidspeak, but that's not to say that it is not learnable as a language. C3PO clearly understands it, and as it is a language with specific grammatical rules and vocabulary, anyone who wishes to should be able to learn it. I think we see a gradual increase in Luke's understanding of R2's speech. In the first movie, he doesn't evidence understanding R2 at all. In the second movie, he picks up on the general meaning R2 is trying to convey. In the third, he seems to have progressed a bit further.

So while you're correct that initially Luke doesn't understand it, he begins to, and there's no logical reason why humans (or any other species) should be incapable of understanding the language.

It can't be that the speaker is the problem.

More likely the Voice generator is. Being able to play a recording is different than being able to generate a human voice. Adding such a capibility would take memory that would serve the droid better in other tasks considering its job description, acting as a navi-computer, this makes sense. Every measure that can be done to save on board memory will improve the droid's ability to perform its primary task.

Before you bring up R2 storing the Death Star plans, remember that this was just making use of the droid's memory banks in a hurry. Its likely R2 had to erase some of the preprogrammed astrogation data for a while.

Also adding the required hardware to generate the speach would take up space that would be better used to add a few more tools.

Isolder74 wrote:More likely the Voice generator is. Being able to play a recording is different than being able to generate a human voice. Adding such a capibility would take memory that would serve the droid better in other tasks considering its job description, acting as a navi-computer, this makes sense. Every measure that can be done to save on board memory will improve the droid's ability to perform its primary task.

But it already has the Voice Recognition patterns for Basic so it can obey commands. Which means it knows which modulations are for which word so it can do this operation:
Aural Input -> Voice Recognition (which sound, which word) -> Basic -> Lexicon -> Meaning -> Binary -> Obey
so all it has to do is reverse it:
Binary -> Lexicon -> Basic -> Voice Generation Matchup (which word, which sound) -> Basic Aural Output.

BTW, the DS data was supposedly on a single disc..

Voice recognision is very different from voice generation.


They are very different programming problems.

Beside why make something able to talk if it doesn't really need it? There are R2 units that have been modified to be able to speak but these are user end modifications. Also when mass producing an item like a droid, saving 3-6 credits on each unit ends up with a huge savings for your company in the long run. You make 1 million droids and save 6 credits on each one, you get the idea. If the consumers are not demanding a feature why add it?

I figure R2 could learn it, just like any human has the capability to learn Portugese, but not everyone takes the time.

As to droids "learning things" it could be as simple as popping in a disc, but I figure astromech droids normally don't talk to humans, but to computers, and computer languages are more efficient for talking to other computers (rather than tailoring it to every alien language everywhere). If an Astromech needs to talk to a pilot, he does so through the ships interpreter, as we saw in ESB & ROTJ.

Non SOD, Lucas just wanted a robot that made cool noises, and have Threepio do all the talking (contrasts them more as a couple). Plus, keep R2 a cute booping little fella who is a bit mysterious but knows what's going on ultimately and saves the day, sort of like Lassie.

Sharp-kun wrote:No they don't. When Luke's in his X-Wing R2 displays his speech on the screen.

How could Luke hear R2 speak if he's seperated from him by space?

Han understood the droid helping him repair the Falcon in that same movie.

Well Hancan understand droid speak as evidenced in ESB when Luke is heading off to the fight aht ATATs. Hans fixing the Falcon and a little droiud comes up to he beeping away and Han clearly understands it.

Gah! Beat me to it!

StarshipTitanic wrote:

Sharp-kun wrote:No they don't. When Luke's in his X-Wing R2 displays his speech on the screen.

How could Luke hear R2 speak if he's seperated from him by space?

Jesus, learn how to comprehend what you're reading.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

StarshipTitanic wrote:

Sharp-kun wrote:No they don't. When Luke's in his X-Wing R2 displays his speech on the screen.

How could Luke hear R2 speak if he's seperated from him by space?

Jesus, learn how to comprehend what you're reading.

i think he's emplying that he is displaying his speech on the screen merely because he can't hear him...

StarshipTitanic wrote:

Sharp-kun wrote:No they don't. When Luke's in his X-Wing R2 displays his speech on the screen.

How could Luke hear R2 speak if he's seperated from him by space

Speaker in the cockpit? What would be more usful in combat, listening to the droid, or taking your eyes off the battle to read the text?

Isolder74 wrote:Voice recognision is very different from voice generation.


They are very different programming problems.

How different could it be? I'd admit I'm not knowledgable about computer intricacies, but:

Let's say the acoustic pattern for "table" is "231" (amplitude, frequency ... etc).

Voice recognition means that when an acoustic imput of 231 is received, the computer would recognize it as "table." There's probably some fuzzy-logic or something similar so it can figure out sounds close to the "ideal" is also "table," but there's a base for comparison.

But by the same token, how hard is it to figure out that to say "table", you feed an order to emit 231 from the speaker, and you'd get a passable imitation. We aren't talking great speech here, we're shooting for mere understandable.

I am of the opinion that R2 doesnt WANT to speak Basic. Frankly, he is the real hero of starwars, I cant count the number of times that little droid has saved everyones asses, and how much smarter HE is than everyone else. I wouldnt at all doubt it if he can speak basic, but chooses not to.

He obviously has not ever had his memory wiped, his personality is so developed... He probably KNEW about Darth Vader and Luke, Obi Wan did not own him per se,(that we know yet) but everything so far is consistent with that little droid knowing EVERYTHING.

Artoo has been shown to be an extremely sarcastic little wise-ass alot of the time

(a conversation he had with C-3P0 in one of the NJO books comes to mind)

He probably doesn't want the 'speak basic' unit in him so people don't figure out or know what he's saying most of the time and effect a memory wipe.

I mean, for all we know, some of his responses have been down right rude.

i.e When Mara thought Artoo sounded thoughtful, for all we know he could have been muttering 'Should I cap the red-headed bitch and then go help Luke, or take her along to serve as a distraction?"

McC wrote:That's inconclusive, Sharp-kun. Luke may not know droidspeak, but that's not to say that it is not learnable as a language. C3PO clearly understands it, and as it is a language with specific grammatical rules and vocabulary, anyone who wishes to should be able to learn it. I think we see a gradual increase in Luke's understanding of R2's speech. In the first movie, he doesn't evidence understanding R2 at all. In the second movie, he picks up on the general meaning R2 is trying to convey. In the third, he seems to have progressed a bit further.

So while you're correct that initially Luke doesn't understand it, he begins to, and there's no logical reason why humans (or any other species) should be incapable of understanding the language.

Luke Dosent understand R2 in ESB, he understands R2 as much as we understand our pet dogs when they look at you and run to the door or their food bowl. I believe your refering to when Luke is on his way to Degobah. Artoo beeps questionly. Luke knows that R2 is confused because he isnt going the sam way as the fleet. When LUKE learns that there is no lifeforms on the planet and no civilization he says it outloud. R2 a droid that hasnt had a memmory sweep in some time has some emotions and makes a scared series of warbles. Luke believes that R2 is a little nervous and puts in his belief that hes afraid of the planet "Yes, im sure its safe for driods".

Luke dosent understand R2 (binary) he just understands emotions that any lifeform or droid with no memmory sweep has.

C-3P0 undersants R2 because he is speaking binary. binary is the prime language of all droids in the galaxy its kind of like our C++ computer language in that sense

Which does raise the question of the utility value of R2s in combat fighter craft, because as was pointed out, reading a screen in combat is a rather problematic affair.

"Artoo! Can you fix the inertial stabilizer?"

(Droidspeak) "Not now asswipe, CSI's on. I need some 'me time'."

"You're on it? Good!"

One would think that even if the standard-model astromech droid didn't include speech functions, retrofitting them to be able to verbally communicate with their pilots would be a matter of pilot survivability for the Alliance, especially because it would likely be a lot easier than training farmboys and partisans how to translate whistles and boops.

But then the Rebels weren't smart, only lucky. Kill a few Bothans and they'll buy anything...

I would say the Astromechs don't speak basic because they don't generally have to. They are a utility droid and a navigator. You don't talk to them, you order them around. In a dog fight situation the pilot does not concentrate on what his droid is saying, he expects him to follow orders as best as he can. If the droid can't do this, the tone of its beep will tell the pilot all he needs to know until he has a second to glance down at his screens.

As a movie device, the R2 was like a auditory mime. You got the idea what he was saying but it was left up to your imagination what it actually was. It gives a little character.

My guess it is due to R2's software. Modern computers can easily play sounds but to read text they need special software. R2's designers may not intended him to speak and hence did not include voice software.

The Shadow wrote:My guess it is due to R2's software. Modern computers can easily play sounds but to read text they need special software. R2's designers may not intended him to speak and hence did not include voice software.

Yeah. The tough part in that case is that the computer has to know which frequencies to send to the speakers to make a passable voice. But R2, with Voice Recognition, should know all those frequencies (it has to to interpret human speech), and in fact probably several intonations via fuzzy logic.

So, the R2 droids are like French Canadians--they know your language but still won't speak it to you?

Beep-beep bedeep boo boop!
[Quebectron independant maintennant!]

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:So, the R2 droids are like French Canadians--they know your language but still won't speak it to you?

Beep-beep bedeep boo boop!
[Quebectron independant maintennant!]

Thats the french in general.

After I posted my comment and went to bed, I got to thinking about the fact that the only Rebel fighter that made use of the astromech droids was in fact the X-Wing, and that realistically speaking, the failure of R2 units to verbally communicate was probably the reason for this.

Which begs other questions, such as why the X-Wing requires an astromech for navigation, but the A-Wing, B-Wing, and Y-Wing don't. If you go into the EU, neither does the Tie Defender.

(Real men don't need astromechs? Take that, X-Wing jockies...)

I still say that having a backseater that cannot articulate clearly could actually detract more from the combat efficiency of a fighter than not having one at all.