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The most powerful Jedi in known SW vs the most powerful Sith in known SW.

In the Roman coliseum.

Full force powers allowed.

Who wins IYO?

Yoda is the MAN! Or whatever.

Basically most of what Kun had was pure, unfocused, raw Force energy more or less being blasted around wherever he wished. This kind of raw destruction is well suited to a Sith... he's actually very like Anakin Skywalker, except perhaps more dramatic in his displays of Force energy.

Yoda, on the other hand, is far more experienced; in his years of Jedi-hood, he's undoubtedly picked up a trick or two. That, and he's also much more focused; he may be channeling less power than Kun, but it'll be much sharper and will hurt more for the amount of damage it does.

As to skill with a lightsaber? Kun could conceivably know plenty of lightsaber strategies which are foreign to Yoda, them being far before his time. Yoda, on the other hand, has the Giant-Blender-O'-Doom moves...

Kun by a landslide. It took the combined force of the entire Republic and all of the Jedi to finally kill him, and he was STILL able to trap his body in his temples. Yoda was badass, but he wasn't able to kill Dooku, who is lesser than Palpy, who was lesser than Kun.

He was, however, winning against Dooku (which is why Dooku broke contact and fled). It was probably only a matter of time.

Howedar wrote:He was, however, winning against Dooku (which is why Dooku broke contact and fled). It was probably only a matter of time.

Still. Yoda is not as powerful as Palpy. So we still have Yoda<Palpy<<<Kun.

I wonder if Jedi ghosts can fight...

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:

Howedar wrote:He was, however, winning against Dooku (which is why Dooku broke contact and fled). It was probably only a matter of time.

Still. Yoda is not as powerful as Palpy. So we still have Yoda<Palpy<<<Kun.

How do you know that? Where are the upper limits for each of their powers stated? Where do you see palpy being stronger than yoda? Also, that's a bit...wrong. I mean just because A Beats C and C beats B != A Beats B.

Kurgan wrote:I wonder if Jedi ghosts can fight...

Not physically, but they can affect others as well as utilize dark side monsters.

Well, in the HOTD, it is said that it took Yoda three days (I may be mistaken) of terrifying force battles in a duel with a dark jedi that had fled to Dagobah. Either this Dark Jedi was very powerful indeed, or it takes a long time for two people well versed in the force to wait for the other to make a slip. As Dooku told Yoda, their knowledge of the force wasn't going to determine the victor of the battle in a hurry.

So I'm guessing, if there's two powerful force-users, unless one is able to overpower the other with raw power it's going to be a long back and forth battle where experience and perserverance may count greatly.

Kun's double bladed lightsaber would be rather handy considering Yoda likes to jump behind people.

Are there any EU books about Kun. I've just started to get really involved in SW (I've always loved the movies) by reading some of the EU Books, so if you could tell me that'd be great.

Kurgan wrote:I wonder if Jedi ghosts can fight...

Exar Kun didn't die. He used his massive force powers and sapped the lives of thousands of slaves to suspend his consciousness outside his body- his body was destroyed, but he never actually DIED.

Obi-wan and Yoda suspended themselves outside their body, but it was temporary (Obi-wan faded away completely after five years and couldn't speak to luke anymore, and at no point could he help Luke in anything with his force abilities).

But Exar Kun managed to keep himself going for 4,000 years...Since he was still ALIVE, he was able to use his force abilities. He manipulated creatures with mind tricks to do things for him, and he manipulated Kyp Durron, AND he mopped the floor with Corran Horn with Force Lightning, AND fried Gantoris to a crisp.

I'd say he can still fight

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:

Kurgan wrote:I wonder if Jedi ghosts can fight...

Not physically, but they can affect others as well as utilize dark side monsters.

Are you forgetting Gantoris and Corran? Gantoris was roasted alive and Corran Horn injured by Exar Kun's force lightning. And Corran was also smacked telekinetically if I remember (broken shoulder and all).

Darth Maul wrote: Are there any EU books about Kun. I've just started to get really involved in SW (I've always loved the movies) by reading some of the EU Books, so if you could tell me that'd be great.

Tales of the Jedi comic books. Most of 'em have been converted into graphic-novel format now, like the Dark Empire series. I personally find the art meh, but otherwise they're good stuff, especially the later ones. Also the "Jedi Academy" series, and "I, Jedi" has Kun as a supporting player on Yavin.

Praxis wrote:

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:

Kurgan wrote:I wonder if Jedi ghosts can fight...

Not physically, but they can affect others as well as utilize dark side monsters.

Are you forgetting Gantoris and Corran? Gantoris was roasted alive and Corran Horn injured by Exar Kun's force lightning. And Corran was also smacked telekinetically if I remember (broken shoulder and all).

I'm just remembering Kun's inability to do anything to Luke's body.

Going by the role playing game, which might give some hints as to Kun's power, Kun is outmatched by Yoda's Force Level. This gives us no true yardstick by which to measure things, but for those who wish to gauge Kun's power by his ghost trick, remember that this took a bit more than his innate power - in essence it took Naga Sadow's Sith machinery and the combined sacrifice of his Massassi slaves.

I really see things going either way - Kun has a combination of strength, speed, Force Powers and fighting skill that makes him dangerous to any foe. Put against Dooku I'd peg him as the more dangerous simply because of his pitbull mentality. He's not some high-minded idealist like Dooku; he just wants to kill and gain power.

Against Yoda... I dunno. He'd almost certainly be able to match Yoda's speed and probably has an equally unpredictable style. He's got the stamina that Yoda cannot, at his age, reasonably maintain. He's also killed Jedi before in gross lots, and has developed a taste for it.

On the other hand, Yoda's command of the Force seems to be unrivaled by anyone he's contended with. I don't doubt that his command of it comes with great skill as well. Thus, it doesn't really matter if Kun's powers are slightly greater; his lack of discipline and brutality would squander his advantage against such a skilled foe as Yoda.

...my god, haven't spewed so much nothing in a good while.

Eleas wrote:Going by the role playing game, which might give some hints as to Kun's power, Kun is outmatched by Yoda's Force Level. This gives us no true yardstick by which to measure things, but for those who wish to gauge Kun's power by his ghost trick, remember that this took a bit more than his innate power - in essence it took Naga Sadow's Sith machinery and the combined sacrifice of his Massassi slaves.

How did the Force Power in D stack up. The only set I got for Yoda, near his deathbed in Dagobah as of TESB, was Control 14D, Sense 13D and Alter 10D. But I got it from an obscure website without a source.

As I understand it, the D is an abbreviation to approximate Power and Skill together (assuming they evaluated it right - sometimes they rate the D inaccurately, like R2D2 being a better pilot than Wedge Antilles).

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:

Eleas wrote:Going by the role playing game, which might give some hints as to Kun's power, Kun is outmatched by Yoda's Force Level. This gives us no true yardstick by which to measure things, but for those who wish to gauge Kun's power by his ghost trick, remember that this took a bit more than his innate power - in essence it took Naga Sadow's Sith machinery and the combined sacrifice of his Massassi slaves.

How did the Force Power in D stack up. The only set I got for Yoda, near his deathbed in Dagobah as of TESB, was Control 14D, Sense 13D and Alter 10D. But I got it from an obscure website without a source.

As I understand it, the D is an abbreviation to approximate Power and Skill together (assuming they evaluated it right - sometimes they rate the D inaccurately, like R2D2 being a better pilot than Wedge Antilles).

No, I figured it through the official D20 crap SWRPG, where Yoda is a Level 10 Jedi Consular / Level 10 Jedi Master. IIRC, Exar Kun is Level 7 Jedi Guardian / Level 10 Sith Lord, which means he's far more combat-oriented but less Force - oriented.

Praxis wrote:

Kurgan wrote:I wonder if Jedi ghosts can fight...

Exar Kun didn't die. He used his massive force powers and sapped the lives of thousands of slaves to suspend his consciousness outside his body- his body was destroyed, but he never actually DIED.

I don't get why the Old Republic and Jedi were such idiots. Air strikes on the "Massassi Temples" and no more place for him to hide. Sure you get collateral damage, but if he's killing his followers anyway, and he's such a threat, it's worth it. Morons.

*Ghost of SOD slaps Kurgan around with a large trout*

"BUT THEN THERE WOULD BE NO STORY WOULD THERE??"

Okay, fine. ; )

Obi-wan and Yoda suspended themselves outside their body, but it was temporary (Obi-wan faded away completely after five years and couldn't speak to luke anymore, and at no point could he help Luke in anything with his force abilities).

Yeah, I read Heir to the Empire as well. Yoda stuck around longer, but then he died four years later than Ben. Still, didn't Anakin's ghost appear to Leia years later (so she could tell him off)?

I think it's a little silly that the good guys can't stick around for long, but the bad guys can roam the galaxy for thousands of years and actually do crap. I guess the Dark Side IS stronger, even in the EU!

But Exar Kun managed to keep himself going for 4,000 years...Since he was still ALIVE, he was able to use his force abilities. He manipulated creatures with mind tricks to do things for him, and he manipulated Kyp Durron, AND he mopped the floor with Corran Horn with Force Lightning, AND fried Gantoris to a crisp.

BS. He's non-corporeal (with body destroyed). Isn't that the definition of physical death? From a certain point of view the Jedi ghosts are "alive" as well. Palpatine died as well, yet he is this ghost wandering around possessing people... ditto for Marka Ragnos...

I'd say he can still fight

My question is can the Jedi ghosts (if necessary) "power" existing Jedi like Exar Kun can?

It sounds to me like you're saying their situation is completely different. So the ghost can't harm him and he can't hurt them, the fight is over.

Then again if Exar Kun is "alive" he can be killed, but you might need some unliscensed nuclear accelerators...

Kurgan wrote:I think it's a little silly that the good guys can't stick around for long, but the bad guys can roam the galaxy for thousands of years and actually do crap. I guess the Dark Side IS stronger, even in the EU!

What surprise is it? Tell me when you see Jedi able to remove a sun's core and make suns go nova, or even legends of something equivalent happening.

If you are willing to corrode your body and mind in exhange for a sump pump (your anger) to forcefully induct the Force, you will be able to get a better circulation than a Jedi, which basically uses only natural circulation.

Still, didn't Anakin's ghost appear to Leia years later (so she could tell him off)?

No, that was Truce at Bakura, the day after Return of the Jedi.

I think it's a little silly that the good guys can't stick around for long, but the bad guys can roam the galaxy for thousands of years and actually do crap. I guess the Dark Side IS stronger, even in the EU!

It's not like that. Dead/disembodied Jedi can't affect physical things. They're really DEAD, they just managed to suspect their consciousness a little bit longer outside their body, temporarily. Eventually, it fades, and they die completely (mind and body).

Exar Kun was different. He had to combine Dark Side tech AND sap the life of thousands, maybe millions of Massassi slaves to gather enough power to PERMANENTLY survive outside his body.

BS. He's non-corporeal (with body destroyed). Isn't that the definition of physical death? From a certain point of view the Jedi ghosts are "alive" as well.

See above. Exar Kun suspended his consciousness outside his body permanently by sapping the life of thousands of slaves, so his mind was still alive- only his body died.
Obi-wan and Yoda and Anakin only managed to do this temporarily- their mind eventually died, as well.

If Exar Kun hadn't been killed by the Jedi apprentices on Yavin 4 four thousand years after his body died, he would have continued living practically forever. It was DIFFERENT than the other jedi who died.

Palpatine died as well, yet he is this ghost wandering around possessing people... ditto for Marka Ragnos...

Neither of them sucked the lives of thousands/millions and use Naga Sadow's Sith machinery to prevent their consciousness from being destroyed? No. They died, and faded away.

Also, note that sometimes a Jedi likely dies too quickly (or isn't strong enough) to suspend his mind outside his body. We never saw Darth Maul wandering around.

My question is can the Jedi ghosts (if necessary) "power" existing Jedi like Exar Kun can?

It sounds to me like you're saying their situation is completely different. So the ghost can't harm him and he can't hurt them, the fight is over.

Then again if Exar Kun is "alive" he can be killed, but you might need some unliscensed nuclear accelerators...

No. Again, Exar Kun is NOT a normal dead Jedi. Other dead Jedi are just temporarily surviving outside their body, and can't effect anything. Exar Kun CAN power existing Jedi, or teach them things (consider Kyp Durron, who Exar Kun convinced to turn to the dark side and 'charged' him up to blast Luke).

He was killed by Luke's Jedi apprentices, who used the light side of the Force to blast Kun like a flashlight on a shadow.

Kun was a badass and Yoda was a green mupet. Any questions?

Utah Jak wrote:Kun was a badass and Yoda was a green mupet. Any questions?

Yeah...doesn't prove a fucking thing.

All in all not one person has really gone and done shit for Kun except some loud hyperbole that his shadow existed for thusands of years!!!

Yes, and?

Literally feats people...hell Eleas actually put forth something of comparison and Yoda kicked Kun's butt in that regard.

So before someone goes "Kun =teh badarse!!!!" put some shit forward, because this another Maul vs Vader and going "Well Maul could maybe kinda would've done this!"

Ghost Rider wrote:

Utah Jak wrote:Kun was a badass and Yoda was a green mupet. Any questions?

Yeah...doesn't prove a fucking thing.

All in all not one person has really gone and done shit for Kun except some loud hyperbole that his shadow existed for thusands of years!!!

Yes, and?

Literally feats people...hell Eleas actually put forth something of comparison and Yoda kicked Kun's butt in that regard.

So before someone goes "Kun =teh badarse!!!!" put some shit forward, because this another Maul vs Vader and going "Well Maul could maybe kinda would've done this!"

AFAIK, there aren't any books dealing with Kun, so we're going off what we have seen him do. Which is nearly defeat a Jedi Master 4000 years after his death.

And IMO, the RPG games don't count for shit in determining strengths like that. They're a game. They can't have one character being so far beyond the rest; it wouldn't play right.

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Utah Jak wrote:Kun was a badass and Yoda was a green mupet. Any questions?

Yeah...doesn't prove a fucking thing.

All in all not one person has really gone and done shit for Kun except some loud hyperbole that his shadow existed for thusands of years!!!

Yes, and?

Literally feats people...hell Eleas actually put forth something of comparison and Yoda kicked Kun's butt in that regard.

So before someone goes "Kun =teh badarse!!!!" put some shit forward, because this another Maul vs Vader and going "Well Maul could maybe kinda would've done this!"

AFAIK, there aren't any books dealing with Kun, so we're going off what we have seen him do. Which is nearly defeat a Jedi Master 4000 years after his death.

And IMO, the RPG games don't count for shit in determining strengths like that. They're a game. They can't have one character being so far beyond the rest; it wouldn't play right.

And in this assumption of saying 4000 years after means what again?

Give physical powers, ranges of abilites because right now, this is the ultimate example of blantant wanking.