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ANSWER: The Jedi Of Course.

They are and always have been the weakest link in GL's Space Opera.

Let me break it down for you:

1. Sun Tzu Says.
If you know yourself as you know your enemy you /may/ dominate him on the battlefield. But the /greatest warrior/ is one who knows the REASONS why his enemy fights and thus (through espionage and manipulation) defeats him BEFORE there can be conflict.
i.e. If you are precognitive, you should be able to duck an engagement that is almost 100% certain to kill you. As the Arena Battle showed with something like 300-400 dead Jedi. The Flanneled One's excuse being that "The Shroud Of The Dark Side Occludes Their Vision."

Belch.

2. Rate Of Fire vs. Linear Spatial Occupation.
i.e. Saber on Blaster Battles suck. Because either the enemy can't shoot worth a darn. Or their weapons must be made incredibly slow ROF'd and inaccurate. Slow enough in fact that a blade moving at all of perhaps 60-90mph can intersect-deflect and occasionally even relfect back magnetic bottled plasma bolts moving at a significant fraction of Light Speed. Using our-world analogues for LOGIC as much as physics:
If you fire ten bolts in a single seconds' trigger pull and 3 of those are on target, /whether you die or not/ so too will the Jedi. Because the best he can hope for is to 'line up' his blade with a pair of inbound bolts. Ignoring #3. And eating it.
A _much_ superior means of fighting blaster weapons was suggested in Ep.V wherein Vader blocked Han's shots before extracting-from-hand his weapon. Even in Ep. 2 there was a similar event wherein Yoda was 'just standing there' as a bolt came in to the troop compartment of his gunship and this four foot long segment of ravening energy...simply disappeared.
In this sense, a Jedi who 'kept his guard up' (i.e. concentrated on it with little or no saber-dance blade shennanigans) could make anyth NUMBER of shooter's bolts that he could 'visualize' just //SNAP!// blink out of existence on this plane. Both differentiating the skill from conventional deflector shields (where they are scattered and blocked in an annihilative fashion) and making it clear that he could become vulnerable to shooters in his flanks or rear.
This is not technically a fault of the Prequelogy, but rather an abortion of Ep.IV and onwards.
Indeed, if Lucas had had an operative brain cell in his skull he would have /ignored/ the OT and simply used the Master/Padawn relationship like a shieldmate system from greco-roman times.

3. Rate Of Advance vs. Man In The Loop.
It's pretty clear that Lucas wants to avoid 'superman' mechanizing the Jedi into just another killing machine but I think he has gone waaaaaay to far into the fairy lands of wussdom.
Specifically, SPEED. You saw Quigon and Obi Wan /really move/ in the opening battle of Ep.1 And I 'instantly' thought "Ho yeah!" These are REAL Jedi. Jedi who have a _contempt of engagement_ in fighting a superior foe to a useless standstill and instead use superior agility, both mental and physical, to shape and control the battlefield. Except they don't.
Because they are shown too much as being 'duelists', obsessed with both personal fights and the notion that battling other 'bad guy' Force Users are the ultimate reason for their own existence (a dangerous place to go when the obvious conclusion is that the universe could get along without either one).
Then you have the Arena fight. Where the SIMPLEST way to end the damn battle before it began (rather than sitting their gesticulating with your outmoded lumalight as your friends sit surrounded by 6-7 Destroyers, about to be ventilated) is to jump out onto the floor. Form a shield wall around the hostages. And jump BACK out, with them in tow. Daring any moron robo-doberman to follow.
And of course, never one to rise above my expectations, GL ensured that they didn't.
Reason?
I like to call it the "The littlest as much as least common denominator" excuse. In that Yoda has to come in, on the back of an atomic elephant no less, and use conventional firepower to save ALL the Jedi's bacon.
And who performs this rescue? Why, (tooot-tooo-tooo-TOOO!) It's The Cavalry!
Except it's not. Which of course blows the themic identity (itself a repeat of Ewoks and Jawas etc.) right out of the water. Because the Air Mobile/Air Assaul _Infantry_ are simply using the power of an initial gunship pass to 'win the day' while the overwhelming threat number of droids is basically not even acknowledged in the post battle 3P0 scene which shows a largely denuded (say vacant) Arena.
And so the Jedi are saved, not by men but by technology. And even the scenic feel of the aftermath is that of "Ainh, not that big a deal...(if they had just fought correctly)"
Yet the combination of these two HUMAN characters, along with the highly counterintuitive 'assumption of leadership by the rescued-inferior force' is now made to rule the nature of the followup battlefield.
Wherein you have infantry dropping into a deep mechanized defensive belt for no apparent reason EXCEPT that they cannot walk any distance. And the enemy moves across it at a constant lope of 25mph for the droids and 50+ for the biwheel 'armored cars' which would make digging in a perilously shortlived process anyway.
Jedi would not fight here. At least they would not be a part of the final 'OK Corral' faceoff scenario wherein hundreds of bolts are flying through the air, both ways. And indeed they are entirely absent from those scenes.
Indicating that FINALLY both the ROF (Before ANH yet faster firing!) and perhaps accuracy have come up to real-world standards.

Other things to think about:
1. Walkers In Snow= No. No. NO!
The only reason you put legs on a vehicle is if the terrain is so broken or the payload so slung-large as to require each step to find purchase as much as translation while providing a constant clearance. Tires and particularly tracks not only move with the speed of rotary mechanization. But also a _much_ greater distribution of weight-over-area. Which means you can move over rather than plunge through the mires and morasses.
2. Ten Speeds Wheels On A BMX.
Of course shifting to wheels is what happens (sorta) in Ep.2 but only for the droids and /look at them/. They have the narrowness of a plowshare and would likely eat into the dirt for that very reason. NOT what you would want to be driving around in, even before aksing questions about canted axle loadings and steering.
3. Forget 'The Force'.
Wherefore the Financing? I can see the Clone Troops. But I can't see a battlefleet. And assault craft. And miniwalkers. And giant plodding, 'Atomic Annie' assault guns. HOW? What yutz of the Republic GAO managed to MISS THE BILLIONS OF CREDITS INVOLVED? Duhhhhhhhhh.
4. Air Mech into Armor Country
Again, the notion that you would set into place 10-15mph behemoths from beneath the wings of large CH-54 Skycrane type lifters in a battlefield dominated by these fast moving terminators is asking an awful lot of audience SOD. If you HAVE mech. You generally want to all pile in and /drive/ to the battlefield from far enough away that nobody screws with the landing zones. And you want to do so _quickly_ because maintaining initiative in the marshalling-to-maneuver-to-contact period is about never being caught flat footed inbetween. Instead, again, the only thing you can justify both intial close-in placement and rate of advance of the Republic Forces in comparison with is the humans. And particularly the Jedi who are 'supposed to lead this mess'. Even though they have presently shown themselves to be utterly incompetent warriors.
5. No NGS?
Supplying Naval Gunfire Support from ORBIT is where I would anticipate seeing the protostardestroyers operating most efficaciously. Setting down on 'giant tricycle' landing gear and indeed the /very notion/ of bringing these ships into atmosphere to just 'hover about' is moronic.
6. Toylike Gunships.
The _Alien_ Dropship is /beautiful/. Squat and Bulky like an A-10. Yet functionally elegant like a CH-53 Stallion. All the while being 'composite' enough in it's layered shapes be a natural for a Star Wars universe with mechanical rather than fluid design. The Gunship is just clumsy. It appears to have little room for realistice engines. It has bulbous turrets all over yet doesn't seem to fire any but the forward ones and then only 'as plotline convenient' against surface targets. It's skids are also it's troopdoors. It's interior seems 'blank' as much as open (again, no realistic mechanization of fuel or weapons or electronics components. Heck, even it's 'missile launchers' appear to be nothing but blanked off battleship guns with an impossible-to-load TOPSIDE rotary magazine.
7. Yoda is Dork.
First he is too geriatric-slow to be cripping his way into the command center OR earning the respect of the men who would nominally just pick him up and jog there. Second, if you drop something with AT LEAST the mass of an Aircraft Carrier (say 100,000dwt) into the dirt, OF COURSE you will create an earthquake like 'ripple' and in doing so, this 6-8 foot tall liquefaction of the seismic impact resonance will break the ankles if not the hips of EVERYONE in it's way. Probably as a function of tossing them 10-15ft or more up in the air. Moron. Lastly, In fighting Dooku, I find it exceptionally 'convenient' that not only does the little green toad fail to finish the fight in preference for saving to of the most /worthless/ Jedi ever to bear the name. But he somehow arrives without a company of troops or even orders to his pilot 'to block off the hangar exit'. THIS being the time to show a strafing run by Geonosian fighters, if ever, because there is simply no excuse for what is less an act of precognition than of simple warriors instinct (backup upon backup upon...).

CONCLUSION:
GL never had half the grip on this 'magnificent storyline' he claimed to. ANH was clumsy but had hope. TESB was full of timing errors but had dramatic characterization and scene control. Like a "Whole 'nother person was doing it!".
Because they were, both in writing and directing. ROTJ was the beginning of the Kiddy Films and wherein the Jedi concept /really/ fell down as a full fledged character mode. Both philosophically and for-teeth.
Everything since has basically been leftover trash waiting for another gust of wind to pick it up and toss it about in a new 'reinvention as self referentialism' combinant grouping which, when it lands, remains garbage.

He may be a douchebag, but if you ignore the petty tirade some of his points make sense.

VT-16 wrote:I saw the Acclamator being compared to an amphibious assault ship, that delivers helicopters and other vehicles. In that case they make sense.

The Clone-army´s objective seemed to be to capture as many people and buildings as they could, not destroy everything in sight. Otherwise, the Accs main guns would have demolished the planet from orbit.

And the Jedi have been weakened by the Dark Side, this is said explisitly in the movie. They´re not what they once were.

You should see the post where he mocks the Vader´s father-reveal in ESB. I lost him completely after that.

His wording also serves as flame-bait. I´m positive he realizes this...

What happened in the arena was as much to do with improper tactics and deficient organisation as it was to do with limited Jedi powers.

Vympel wrote:George Lucas fully admits the Jedi are arrogant in AOTC.

ANSWER: The Jedi Of Course.

They are and always have been the weakest link in GL's Space Opera.

Let me break it down for you:

1. Sun Tzu Says.
If you know yourself as you know your enemy you /may/ dominate him on the battlefield. But the /greatest warrior/ is one who knows the REASONS why his enemy fights and thus (through espionage and manipulation) defeats him BEFORE there can be conflict.
i.e. If you are precognitive, you should be able to duck an engagement that is almost 100% certain to kill you. As the Arena Battle showed with something like 300-400 dead Jedi. The Flanneled One's excuse being that "The Shroud Of The Dark Side Occludes Their Vision."

Belch.

2. Rate Of Fire vs. Linear Spatial Occupation.
i.e. Saber on Blaster Battles suck. Because either the enemy can't shoot worth a darn. Or their weapons must be made incredibly slow ROF'd and inaccurate. Slow enough in fact that a blade moving at all of perhaps 60-90mph can intersect-deflect and occasionally even relfect back magnetic bottled plasma bolts moving at a significant fraction of Light Speed. Using our-world analogues for LOGIC as much as physics:
If you fire ten bolts in a single seconds' trigger pull and 3 of those are on target, /whether you die or not/ so too will the Jedi. Because the best he can hope for is to 'line up' his blade with a pair of inbound bolts. Ignoring #3. And eating it.

A _much_ superior means of fighting blaster weapons was suggested in Ep.V wherein Vader blocked Han's shots before extracting-from-hand his weapon. Even in Ep. 2 there was a similar event wherein Yoda was 'just standing there' as a bolt came in to the troop compartment of his gunship and this four foot long segment of ravening energy...simply disappeared.

In this sense, a Jedi who 'kept his guard up' (i.e. concentrated on it with little or no saber-dance blade shennanigans) could make anyth NUMBER of shooter's bolts that he could 'visualize' just //SNAP!// blink out of existence on this plane. Both differentiating the skill from conventional deflector shields (where they are scattered and blocked in an annihilative fashion) and making it clear that he could become vulnerable to shooters in his flanks or rear.

This is not technically a fault of the Prequelogy, but rather an abortion of Ep.IV and onwards.
Indeed, if Lucas had had an operative brain cell in his skull he would have /ignored/ the OT and simply used the Master/Padawn relationship like a shieldmate system from greco-roman times.

3. Rate Of Advance vs. Man In The Loop.
It's pretty clear that Lucas wants to avoid 'superman' mechanizing the Jedi into just another killing machine but I think he has gone waaaaaay to far into the fairy lands of wussdom.
Specifically, SPEED. You saw Quigon and Obi Wan /really move/ in the opening battle of Ep.1 And I 'instantly' thought "Ho yeah!" These are REAL Jedi. Jedi who have a _contempt of engagement_ in fighting a superior foe to a useless standstill and instead use superior agility, both mental and physical, to shape and control the battlefield. Except they don't.
Because they are shown too much as being 'duelists', obsessed with both personal fights and the notion that battling other 'bad guy' Force Users are the ultimate reason for their own existence (a dangerous place to go when the obvious conclusion is that the universe could get along without either one).

Then you have the Arena fight. Where the SIMPLEST way to end the damn battle before it began (rather than sitting their gesticulating with your outmoded lumalight as your friends sit surrounded by 6-7 Destroyers, about to be ventilated) is to jump out onto the floor. Form a shield wall around the hostages. And jump BACK out, with them in tow. Daring any moron robo-doberman to follow.

And of course, never one to rise above my expectations, GL ensured that they didn't.
Reason?
I like to call it the "The littlest as much as least common denominator" excuse. In that Yoda has to come in, on the back of an atomic elephant no less, and use conventional firepower to save ALL the Jedi's bacon.
And who performs this rescue? Why, (tooot-tooo-tooo-TOOO!) It's The Cavalry!
Except it's not. Which of course blows the themic identity (itself a repeat of Ewoks and Jawas etc.) right out of the water. Because the Air Mobile/Air Assaul _Infantry_ are simply using the power of an initial gunship pass to 'win the day' while the overwhelming threat number of droids is basically not even acknowledged in the post battle 3P0 scene which shows a largely denuded (say vacant) Arena.

And so the Jedi are saved, not by men but by technology. And even the scenic feel of the aftermath is that of "Ainh, not that big a deal...(if they had just fought correctly)"

Yet the combination of these two HUMAN characters, along with the highly counterintuitive 'assumption of leadership by the rescued-inferior force' is now made to rule the nature of the followup battlefield.

Wherein you have infantry dropping into a deep mechanized defensive belt for no apparent reason EXCEPT that they cannot walk any distance. And the enemy moves across it at a constant lope of 25mph for the droids and 50+ for the biwheel 'armored cars' which would make digging in a perilously shortlived process anyway.
Jedi would not fight here. At least they would not be a part of the final 'OK Corral' faceoff scenario wherein hundreds of bolts are flying through the air, both ways. And indeed they are entirely absent from those scenes.
Indicating that FINALLY both the ROF (Before ANH yet faster firing!) and perhaps accuracy have come up to real-world standards.

Other things to think about:
1. Walkers In Snow= No. No. NO!
The only reason you put legs on a vehicle is if the terrain is so broken or the payload so slung-large as to require each step to find purchase as much as translation while providing a constant clearance. Tires and particularly tracks not only move with the speed of rotary mechanization. But also a _much_ greater distribution of weight-over-area. Which means you can move over rather than plunge through the mires and morasses.

2. Ten Speeds Wheels On A BMX.
Of course shifting to wheels is what happens (sorta) in Ep.2 but only for the droids and /look at them/. They have the narrowness of a plowshare and would likely eat into the dirt for that very reason. NOT what you would want to be driving around in, even before aksing questions about canted axle loadings and steering.

3. Forget 'The Force'.
Wherefore the Financing? I can see the Clone Troops. But I can't see a battlefleet. And assault craft. And miniwalkers. And giant plodding, 'Atomic Annie' assault guns. HOW? What yutz of the Republic GAO managed to MISS THE BILLIONS OF CREDITS INVOLVED? Duhhhhhhhhh.

4. Air Mech into Armor Country
Again, the notion that you would set into place 10-15mph behemoths from beneath the wings of large CH-54 Skycrane type lifters in a battlefield dominated by these fast moving terminators is asking an awful lot of audience SOD. If you HAVE mech. You generally want to all pile in and /drive/ to the battlefield from far enough away that nobody screws with the landing zones. And you want to do so _quickly_ because maintaining initiative in the marshalling-to-maneuver-to-contact period is about never being caught flat footed inbetween. Instead, again, the only thing you can justify both intial close-in placement and rate of advance of the Republic Forces in comparison with is the humans. And particularly the Jedi who are 'supposed to lead this mess'. Even though they have presently shown themselves to be utterly incompetent warriors.

5. No NGS?
Supplying Naval Gunfire Support from ORBIT is where I would anticipate seeing the protostardestroyers operating most efficaciously. Setting down on 'giant tricycle' landing gear and indeed the /very notion/ of bringing these ships into atmosphere to just 'hover about' is moronic.

6. Toylike Gunships.
The _Alien_ Dropship is /beautiful/. Squat and Bulky like an A-10. Yet functionally elegant like a CH-53 Stallion. All the while being 'composite' enough in it's layered shapes be a natural for a Star Wars universe with mechanical rather than fluid design.

The Gunship is just clumsy. It appears to have little room for realistice engines. It has bulbous turrets all over yet doesn't seem to fire any but the forward ones and then only 'as plotline convenient' against surface targets. It's skids are also it's troopdoors. It's interior seems 'blank' as much as open (again, no realistic mechanization of fuel or weapons or electronics components. Heck, even it's 'missile launchers' appear to be nothing but blanked off battleship guns with an impossible-to-load TOPSIDE rotary magazine.

7. Yoda is Dork.
First he is too geriatric-slow to be cripping his way into the command center OR earning the respect of the men who would nominally just pick him up and jog there.

Second, if you drop something with AT LEAST the mass of an Aircraft Carrier (say 100,000dwt) into the dirt, OF COURSE you will create an earthquake like 'ripple' and in doing so, this 6-8 foot tall liquefaction of the seismic impact resonance will break the ankles if not the hips of EVERYONE in it's way. Probably as a function of tossing them 10-15ft or more up in the air. Moron.

Lastly, In fighting Dooku, I find it exceptionally 'convenient' that not only does the little green toad fail to finish the fight in preference for saving to of the most /worthless/ Jedi ever to bear the name. But he somehow arrives without a company of troops or even orders to his pilot 'to block off the hangar exit'. THIS being the time to show a strafing run by Geonosian fighters, if ever, because there is simply no excuse for what is less an act of precognition than of simple warriors instinct (backup upon backup upon...).

CONCLUSION:
GL never had half the grip on this 'magnificent storyline' he claimed to. ANH was clumsy but had hope. TESB was full of timing errors but had dramatic characterization and scene control. Like a "Whole 'nother person was doing it!".
Because they were, both in writing and directing. ROTJ was the beginning of the Kiddy Films and wherein the Jedi concept /really/ fell down as a full fledged character mode. Both philosophically and for-teeth.
Everything since has basically been leftover trash waiting for another gust of wind to pick it up and toss it about in a new 'reinvention as self referentialism' combinant grouping which, when it lands, remains garbage.

What Alien dropship is he talking about?

Vympel wrote:

What Alien dropship is he talking about?

The one from Aliens, I think. I'm not too impressed in some guy dissing the coolest prequel vehicle yet made, especially when LAAT was inspired by the Mi-24 HIND, but his moron subjective tastes are his own.

His Jedi-wank tendencies are clear- jump back OUT of the Arena? To fucking where? Since when are force jumps that powerful, and even if they are, who says they can all do it?

ANSWER: The Jedi Of Course.

They are and always have been the weakest link in GL's Space Opera.

Let me break it down for you:

1. Sun Tzu Says.
If you know yourself as you know your enemy you /may/ dominate him on the battlefield. But the /greatest warrior/ is one who knows the REASONS why his enemy fights and thus (through espionage and manipulation) defeats him BEFORE there can be conflict.
i.e. If you are precognitive, you should be able to duck an engagement that is almost 100% certain to kill you. As the Arena Battle showed with something like 300-400 dead Jedi. The Flanneled One's excuse being that "The Shroud Of The Dark Side Occludes Their Vision."

Belch.

2. Rate Of Fire vs. Linear Spatial Occupation.
i.e. Saber on Blaster Battles suck. Because either the enemy can't shoot worth a darn. Or their weapons must be made incredibly slow ROF'd and inaccurate. Slow enough in fact that a blade moving at all of perhaps 60-90mph can intersect-deflect and occasionally even relfect back magnetic bottled plasma bolts moving at a significant fraction of Light Speed. Using our-world analogues for LOGIC as much as physics:
If you fire ten bolts in a single seconds' trigger pull and 3 of those are on target, /whether you die or not/ so too will the Jedi. Because the best he can hope for is to 'line up' his blade with a pair of inbound bolts. Ignoring #3. And eating it.
A _much_ superior means of fighting blaster weapons was suggested in Ep.V wherein Vader blocked Han's shots before extracting-from-hand his weapon. Even in Ep. 2 there was a similar event wherein Yoda was 'just standing there' as a bolt came in to the troop compartment of his gunship and this four foot long segment of ravening energy...simply disappeared.
In this sense, a Jedi who 'kept his guard up' (i.e. concentrated on it with little or no saber-dance blade shennanigans) could make anyth NUMBER of shooter's bolts that he could 'visualize' just //SNAP!// blink out of existence on this plane. Both differentiating the skill from conventional deflector shields (where they are scattered and blocked in an annihilative fashion) and making it clear that he could become vulnerable to shooters in his flanks or rear.
This is not technically a fault of the Prequelogy, but rather an abortion of Ep.IV and onwards.
Indeed, if Lucas had had an operative brain cell in his skull he would have /ignored/ the OT and simply used the Master/Padawn relationship like a shieldmate system from greco-roman times.

Other things to think about:
1. Walkers In Snow= No. No. NO!
The only reason you put legs on a vehicle is if the terrain is so broken or the payload so slung-large as to require each step to find purchase as much as translation while providing a constant clearance. Tires and particularly tracks not only move with the speed of rotary mechanization. But also a _much_ greater distribution of weight-over-area. Which means you can move over rather than plunge through the mires and morasses.

3. Forget 'The Force'.
Wherefore the Financing? I can see the Clone Troops. But I can't see a battlefleet. And assault craft. And miniwalkers. And giant plodding, 'Atomic Annie' assault guns. HOW? What yutz of the Republic GAO managed to MISS THE BILLIONS OF CREDITS INVOLVED? Duhhhhhhhhh.

4. Air Mech into Armor Country
Again, the notion that you would set into place 10-15mph behemoths from beneath the wings of large CH-54 Skycrane type lifters in a battlefield dominated by these fast moving terminators is asking an awful lot of audience SOD. If you HAVE mech. You generally want to all pile in and /drive/ to the battlefield from far enough away that nobody screws with the landing zones. And you want to do so _quickly_ because maintaining initiative in the marshalling-to-maneuver-to-contact period is about never being caught flat footed inbetween. Instead, again, the only thing you can justify both intial close-in placement and rate of advance of the Republic Forces in comparison with is the humans. And particularly the Jedi who are 'supposed to lead this mess'. Even though they have presently shown themselves to be utterly incompetent warriors.

5. No NGS?
Supplying Naval Gunfire Support from ORBIT is where I would anticipate seeing the protostardestroyers operating most efficaciously. Setting down on 'giant tricycle' landing gear and indeed the /very notion/ of bringing these ships into atmosphere to just 'hover about' is moronic.

6. Toylike Gunships.
The _Alien_ Dropship is /beautiful/. Squat and Bulky like an A-10. Yet functionally elegant like a CH-53 Stallion. All the while being 'composite' enough in it's layered shapes be a natural for a Star Wars universe with mechanical rather than fluid design. The Gunship is just clumsy. It appears to have little room for realistice engines. It has bulbous turrets all over yet doesn't seem to fire any but the forward ones and then only 'as plotline convenient' against surface targets. It's skids are also it's troopdoors. It's interior seems 'blank' as much as open (again, no realistic mechanization of fuel or weapons or electronics components. Heck, even it's 'missile launchers' appear to be nothing but blanked off battleship guns with an impossible-to-load TOPSIDE rotary magazine.

7. Yoda is Dork.
First he is too geriatric-slow to be cripping his way into the command center OR earning the respect of the men who would nominally just pick him up and jog there. Second, if you drop something with AT LEAST the mass of an Aircraft Carrier (say 100,000dwt) into the dirt, OF COURSE you will create an earthquake like 'ripple' and in doing so, this 6-8 foot tall liquefaction of the seismic impact resonance will break the ankles if not the hips of EVERYONE in it's way. Probably as a function of tossing them 10-15ft or more up in the air. Moron. Lastly, In fighting Dooku, I find it exceptionally 'convenient' that not only does the little green toad fail to finish the fight in preference for saving to of the most /worthless/ Jedi ever to bear the name. But he somehow arrives without a company of troops or even orders to his pilot 'to block off the hangar exit'. THIS being the time to show a strafing run by Geonosian fighters, if ever, because there is simply no excuse for what is less an act of precognition than of simple warriors instinct (backup upon backup upon...).

Darth Wong wrote:

Vympel wrote:

What Alien dropship is he talking about?

The one from Aliens, I think. I'm not too impressed in some guy dissing the coolest prequel vehicle yet made, especially when LAAT was inspired by the Mi-24 HIND, but his moron subjective tastes are his own.

Well that's fucking retarded; the Alien dropship looks kind of cool but it's got those goofy fold-out weapon pods and has no more claim on "realistic" propulsion technology or internal equipment space than the LAAT does, particularly since it lacks repulsorlift technology so it must hover using sheer thrust, not to mention being able to achieve orbit; the thing should be mostly fuel if we want to be "realistic" about this.

Even in Ep. 2 there was a similar event wherein Yoda was 'just standing there' as a bolt came in to the troop compartment of his gunship and this four foot long segment of ravening energy...simply disappeared.
In this sense, a Jedi who 'kept his guard up' (i.e. concentrated on it with little or no saber-dance blade shennanigans) could make anyth NUMBER of shooter's bolts that he could 'visualize' just //SNAP!// blink out of existence on this plane.

Kurgan wrote:Is he talking about the scene where they are in a LAAT and those shots are "exploding" (what some called "Flak Bursts" and others called "Shield Interactions", I happen to side with the latter)? Maybe he thought that was Yoda or other Jedi "stopping" the blasts like Vader? Interesting theory, but who here would agree with it?

About Yoda coming in, that's a good point.

Basically we're assuming that the first LAAT drops off Obi-Wan and Anakin, then it gets blown up (troops and all, remember that Padme and one trooper dropped out earlier so they survived). Then later another LAAT drops off only Yoda, then gets blown up (by those same Geonosian fighters that were guarding Dooku's speeder bike, that were just hanging around guarding the entrance until he escaped?

Because when Padme finally shows up with another squad of troopers in another LAAT, they face no apparent opposition, so they can rescue the wounded Jedi and Yoda can come along...

It's good he mentioned Yoda's failure to stop Dooku. Why didn't Yoda Force Push the two Jedi out of the way and then go after the traitorous Jedi?

Or why didn't he shove the big column INTO Dooku's ship to possibly disable/destroy it? *cough*plot device*cough* ; )

VT-16 wrote: GL never had half the grip on this 'magnificent storyline' he claimed to. ANH was clumsy but had hope. TESB was full of timing errors but had dramatic characterization and scene control. Like a "Whole 'nother person was doing it!"

His Jedi-wank tendencies are clear- jump back OUT of the Arena? To fucking where? Since when are force jumps that powerful, and even if they are, who says they can all do it?

SylasGaunt wrote:Clone Wars? *gets sacked*

Darth Wong wrote: That was stupid, but his "form a shield wall" idea in the centre of the arena is even more stupid. Yeah, let's give the enemy one nice big fat juicy target to concentrate fire on! There's no way this guy has a legitimate military background; he obviously got that idea from watching Russell Crowe in "Gladiator" (the mock "Fall of Carthage" scene), and he's using acronyms to create an illusion of military expertise. All modern soldiers should have an instinctive aversion to bunching up like that.

Darth Wong wrote: Or just flew off because there was nothing else it could do. What's the chance that it would still have ammo since it appears the gunships mostly spent their ammo supporting the ground troops? Unless it was freshly resupplied, which seems doubtful if Yoda just grabbed the first one he could get.

It's easy to second-guess someone's actions in real-life too. Yoda went after Dooku, and reacted instinctively when he saw the column falling toward his Jedi. It's not as if he planned that out or thought about it thoroughly.

Mario1470 wrote:

VT-16 wrote: GL never had half the grip on this 'magnificent storyline' he claimed to. ANH was clumsy but had hope. TESB was full of timing errors but had dramatic characterization and scene control. Like a "Whole 'nother person was doing it!"

No Doi! Really?
A "Whole 'nother person" did TESB. Irvin Kershner directed while Lucas directed ANH. Fucktard.

UCBooties wrote:... (though a jedi was named, I believe it to be Palpatine or a subordiante of his, any elaboration on that?).