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Qui-Gonn and Mace kept parroting in TPM about Anakin being a chosen one from some prophecy who would bring balance to the Force. What balance are they referring to?. There were like a hundred jedi in the old republic just for two sith, right?. Wouldn´t a true balance in the force mean lots of jedi dead?.

Adun wrote:Qui-Gonn and Mace kept parroting in TPM about Anakin being a chosen one from some prophecy who would bring balance to the Force. What balance are they referring to?. There were like a hundred jedi in the old republic just for two sith, right?. Wouldn´t a true balance in the force mean lots of jedi dead?.

I'm not sure, but I think Palpatine, the Darkside was drawing a lot of power and sapping the power the jedis could call upon.

Adun wrote:Qui-Gonn and Mace kept parroting in TPM about Anakin being a chosen one from some prophecy who would bring balance to the Force. What balance are they referring to?. There were like a hundred jedi in the old republic just for two sith, right?. Wouldn´t a true balance in the force mean lots of jedi dead?.

Yes. And look what Anakin ended up doing.

Adun wrote:Qui-Gonn and Mace kept parroting in TPM about Anakin being a chosen one from some prophecy who would bring balance to the Force. What balance are they referring to?. There were like a hundred jedi in the old republic just for two sith, right?. Wouldn´t a true balance in the force mean lots of jedi dead?.

'balance' doesn't necessarily have to mean for good or bad, simply evening out the level of power. amusingly enough this is a concept that was thoroughly explored in the dragonlance series, well before TPM came aobut. when one side gets too top-heavy, so to speak, things get a drastic paradigm shift to make things more neutral.

I always wondered that myself, I thought that maybe they mis-interpreted the prophecy that is all and that it meant to give balance for the darkside rather than tipping the scales in the light sides favor. Misinterpretations happen alot in religion

thecreech wrote:I always wondered that myself, I thought that maybe they mis-interpreted the prophecy that is all and that it meant to give balance for the darkside rather than tipping the scales in the light sides favor. Misinterpretations happen alot in religion

Indeed. I have no idea what else "balance" could be except the destruction of many light-side users.

Hell I recently thought that the balance would be a de-Factioning of the force so there would be no darkside and no light side.

A clean slate, really. No more arrogant Jedi, no more devious Sith. Start over, with a 'clean' Jedi who serves the Force.

Change is painfull. The Old Republic and the Old Jedi Order were corrupt and broken. To fix it, you needed a total upset of the system. Thats what Palpy did with the Empire. The pendelum swinging to the other side, as it were.

When Luke 'freed' Vader and Vader killed Palpy and then himself died, all the principle players responsible for the 'change' from the corrupt and arrogand OR to the Empire perished. Now, supposedly with the NR, your pendelum has swung back to the middle.

When a a forest is overrun with deer, and wolves, leopards and other predators kill a number of them, they have brought nature back into balance. Of course the deer don't see it that way...

Yeah, I always wondered why the Jedi /wanted/ balance. They were on top at the time, and when you're on top, who wants to level the playing field? On another node, the Recluce books, by Modesitt, explore that a lot.

There's an ancient story about a king who is contemplating a war against another country. He consults a seer and is told that if he wages war, a great kingdom will be crushed. A great kingdom was crushed -his own!

The Jedi seem enthusiastic about "balance" being restored to the Force. They don't realize that balance means their days are numbered.

Perhaps some of them, like Yoda, did know what balance would mean but accepted it for the greater good. There's no evidence for it, but it really wouldn't surprise me.

Elfdart wrote:When a a forest is overrun with deer, and wolves, leopards and other predators kill a number of them, they have brought nature back into balance. Of course the deer don't see it that way...

Sort of a like a forest fire to clear out the dead wood?

Interesting.

Of course the EU muddies all this by having hundreds or thousands of Dark/Light Force users "out there" in the galaxy.

I think evidence has been building from the prequels so far that Two Sith were VASTLY overpowered compared to the 10,000 Jedi. Lucas seems to support the idea that removing the Dark Side users brings balance. But I like some of the ideas proposed here.

Kurgan wrote:

Elfdart wrote:When a a forest is overrun with deer, and wolves, leopards and other predators kill a number of them, they have brought nature back into balance. Of course the deer don't see it that way...

Sort of a like a forest fire to clear out the dead wood?

Interesting.

Or a change of seasons or a change from day to night.

Kurgan wrote:Of course the EU muddies all this by having hundreds or thousands of Dark/Light Force users "out there" in the galaxy.

Another reason I hate EU.

Kurgan wrote:I think evidence has been building from the prequels so far that Two Sith were VASTLY overpowered compared to the 10,000 Jedi. Lucas seems to support the idea that removing the Dark Side users brings balance. But I like some of the ideas proposed here.

Not overpowered, just smarter with better timing. Instead of taking on the Jedi head-to-head, Palpatine uses politics to discredit and destroy them -even goading two Jedi to turn against their own. Notice, you haven't seen Sidious actually use any sort of Force powers. He works behind the scenes.

I think Lucas is thinking along the same lines we are. Read the Norse stories of Balder's dreams, Balder's death, Loki's Flyting, Ragnarok and the aftermath -very strong parallels. The gods are done in by a combination of their own character flaws and the plots by Loki and his wife, Angerboda. Almost all of the gods and all of the Jotuns are killed. You can look at it as "balance" restored or a change from day to night to day. The Norse myths come across as a metaphor for the change from summer to autumn to winter to spring.

Elfdart wrote:Not overpowered, just smarter with better timing. Instead of taking on the Jedi head-to-head, Palpatine uses politics to discredit and destroy them -even goading two Jedi to turn against their own. Notice, you haven't seen Sidious actually use any sort of Force powers. He works behind the scenes.

There are actually more than two jedi who turn; as depicted in the ongoing Clone Wars comic series, the Jedi aren't totally united in facing down the might of the Separatists and Count Dooku. Some have turned and become 'Dark Jedi'. There is also Assaji Ventris as well.

Hmm, haven't this been discussed many times before in various threads (like the Purple Emperor Guys and Vader's Redemption)? There are various interpretations of this notion. There is an idea that I think is interesting (the following is based on a discussion I had with Publius in the Purple Emperor Guys, I guess I'm too lazy to write it all again ):

Let's take a look at the use of the Force. The Force is in balance when it's only used by the Jedi, or rather when it's not used by Dark Side users. If noone uses the Force out of hatred, anger etc. the Dark Side is virtually non-existent. If one uses the Dark Side it will grow stronger. In AOTC we learned that the Jedis' ability to use the Force had diminished. That is something we wasn't aware of before and something the OT never touched upon. The explanation is that the Dark Side has grown to become more powerful than the Light side. Since the Jedi were the only Force users known "in a millennia" [or rather millennium] (since the Jedi thought the Sith had been destroyed), the Sith must have been very low key in their use of the Force and didn't take any risks of being detected until it was too late for the Jedi to act. I don't know if any of the recent EU or WEG materials deals with how the Sith did that exactly. Yoda warned Luke that "once you start down the dark path, forever it will dominate your destiny". Luke Skywalker did use the Dark Side of the Force at Jabbas's palace and (it's also possible that Obi-Wan also did that briefly during his fight with Lord Maul in TPM) and again in the Emperor's throne room. But after having struck his father down, he realized in which direction he was going if he had continued down that path. Thus, after Vader/Anakin killed the Emperor, there were no more active Dark Side users (at least not any Sith) otherwise, the Force wouldn't be in balance.

Important to remember is also that GL has stated numerous times that Vader/Anakin brought balance to the Force by killing the Emperor and as he puts it on the Episode II preview on the 2000 edition SE VHS "get rids of evil in the Universe".

Perhaps I should take cover in a flame-proof bunker, but I think this theory is interesting, albeit it fails to explain some aspects.

Like the Force itself is a food supply... and the Jedi use some, the Sith use some. But as the Sith use more and more, there's less for the Jedi to use.

And while the Sith then have less, there are only two of them, so they have huge shares each. Whereas the Jedi have to divide it up into 10,000 fragments, making them quite weak individually.

The Sith may be using all that "food" to make themselves fat so they can last. Or perhaps they may simply be "hoarding" it, to keep it from the Jedi, who thus weaken without it.

Kill the Sith, and you find their vast storehouse of leftover food that is now free to be used again by the starving Jedi.

Maybe, maybe not. It's late... ; )

Parting thought: does anyone think that the whole "Droid Control Ship" concept in TPM is a clue by Lucas as to the later phenomena (sometimes called "Battle Meditation") of Palpatine in ROTJ, and also to the theoretical "control" over the Senate he has in AOTC?

Kurgan wrote:Like the Force itself is a food supply... and the Jedi use some, the Sith use some. But as the Sith use more and more, there's less for the Jedi to use.

And while the Sith then have less, there are only two of them, so they have huge shares each. Whereas the Jedi have to divide it up into 10,000 fragments, making them quite weak individually.

The Sith may be using all that "food" to make themselves fat so they can last. Or perhaps they may simply be "hoarding" it, to keep it from the Jedi, who thus weaken without it.

So what you're saying is that Sith are affluent, fat westerners, while the Jedi are the equivalent of Calcutta beggers.

Jedi: "Hold the bowl higher! Hold the bowl higher! Don't be afraid to beg."

Sith: "Hand me another piece of that KFC won't you? *burps*"

Good analogy to my analogy. ; )

Then the analogy breaks down...

Sith: No, the KFC shall be mine, all of it! *ignites lightsaber*

The "restore balance to the force" thing though suggests that there was some sort of imbalance in the food supply. So although Palpatine, Maul and later Tyrannous were powerful... they don't have to be as powerful as 5,000 Jedi each.

Or else Yoda was as powerful as 5,000 Jedi to kick Dooku's ass.

Yoda : Strong you are, in the fats saturated.
Dooku : You're not looking too good there yourself little man.

Brian

Dooku: This contest will not be resolved by our knowledge of colseslaw, but by our skills with the drumstick.

But I think Dooku's holding a bucket of chicken, the Jedi have a bunch of crumbs to share, and Palpatine own's the restaurant.

There's a reason he's "The Master" after all, and Dooku, while powerful, is the apprentice.

I dunno, man, Yoda's got some damn spicy Original Recipe when he has to.

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