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So is force lightning a sith / darkside only power or could jedi / light side users use it ?

For what it's worth, the SW Ep.2 ICS says no.

Pcm979 wrote:For what it's worth, the SW Ep.2 ICS says no.

Uh... where?

And as to the OP, it can be used by Jedi but it from all accounts is a dark side power. The NJO apparently has a toned down version used by Jacen or was it Luke?

Gah. I meant the VD. I need more sleep.

Without knowing too much about the EU I would say no. The nature of force lightning goes against what a Jedi would use, even in self defense.

Yes. Jacen does in DW. But its not endowed with the Darkside so its not lethal, simply knocking people out.

The Shadow wrote:So is force lightning a sith / darkside only power or could jedi / light side users use it ?

Wasn't Yoda able to absorb and retransmit it? I'd say yes, suggested at least by that and by described actions in "Vision of the Future".

Chris OFarrell wrote:Yes. Jacen does in DW. But its not endowed with the Darkside so its not lethal, simply knocking people out.

Are you sure it isn't just a "Power Setting" Problem? Turn up a supposedly Stun use stream of Force Lightning and sooner or later you reach lethal proportions.

And I don't think Absorb / Retransmit is considered a Dark Side power. All he's doing is taking the FL into his body and putting it out. He's not angry, and nothing in the spell Absorb / Retransmit is fundamentally dark.

It's a universal power, I'm guessing, but whether or not it's considered dark probably depends upon the manner of its use, as was mentioned: you could use a lower-strength form just to stun a target for a while, or do any number of other things (though if KOTOR and other materials are considered canon enough, that instance might have been a seperate ability).

*Possible Tiny Spoiler*

From what I've read, Plo Koon (sp) employs a varient of lightning on battledroids and other automaton, which he's nick-named Electric Justice. Of course, this could be a seperate power all-together (Droid powers from KOTOR) but it sounds to me as if it's a rip of lightning. Perhaps the target choice affects allignment - droids and such are fair game, while sentient biologicals are dark side territory?

The fact that Yoda "uses" it in AOTC seems to indicate that Jedi can use it, even if it's rare. Unless you want to assume that Yoda was using the Dark Side during that fight.

After all, couldn't he have simply "absorbed" it and that's it? Why did he "retransmit it" back at Dooku?


Then again maybe Force Lightning is a "secret" and the reason Jedi don't seem to use it more is because they just don't know how to tap into that "trick." Or perhaps it is something that requires more power than the typical Jedi has, and the Sith, being more powerful than "any Jedi" can use it. Yoda was just lucky to witness the power so he could mess with it, but not produce his own lightning, only catch and toss back Dooku's bolt.

Anyway, those are just wild speculation, but the films shows that Yoda can at least control lightning, and he's a Jedi, so that answers the question. Dooku's also a former Jedi. ; ) Until AOTC we only had a Sith doing it (Palpy).

Kurgan wrote:After all, couldn't he have simply "absorbed" it and that's it? Why did he "retransmit it" back at Dooku?

Think what would have happened, if Dooku couldn't have blocked that lighting.

For the record:

The Force Lightning threw the first rank of Yuuzhan Vong back into their comrads and in the confusion Jacen launched another blaze of fire. He hand't killed them - the murderous form of lightning was a dark side weapon - but they wouldn't be waking for a long time.

DW, Page 428.

I've always thought of it (at least since seeing Yoda use it in AOTC) as something a very powerful Jedi theoretically could use, but in the normal course of things, never would. Jedi seem to have a "use of force continuum" kind of like what we have on the police department (i.e. - you use the amount of force required to neutralize the threat you are facing, but no more). Just like a cop wouldn't draw his sidearm and blow somebody away for taking a swing at him with his fist, the Jedi wouldn't use force lightning against someone shooting a blaster against him, because it's not necessary. He could deflect the bolts back instead, or just disarm him the way Vader did Han Solo in TESB.

On the other hand, if a Jedi encountered a being he couldn't defeat any other way, and that being was a serious threat, he might use it, and do so in good conscience. For example, suppose the Jedi encountered something like the Thing from the John Carpenter movie (based on an story by John W. Campbell), he might have no other option. As long as a single cell of this creature survived, it could take over other organisms, and eventually a whole planet. This would be a serious threat, to say the least. A blaster or lightsaber couldn't destroy all of it, and destroying all of it might be the only way to save millions or billionsof lives. So the Jedi might be permitted to use force lightning, which would drain the life force out of the whole creature, right down to the last cell.

Lord Revan wrote:

Kurgan wrote:After all, couldn't he have simply "absorbed" it and that's it? Why did he "retransmit it" back at Dooku?

Think what would have happened, if Dooku couldn't have blocked that lighting.

He would have had to put up his lightsaber to block it?


Or you mean he would have been zapped! ; )

Yeah, Dooku's manner of blocking is very different from Yoda's, he literally bounces it off his hand, causing it to hit the wall in a burst of flame. Yoda both "absorbs and redirects" and then just absorbs.

However during the fight it looks like they are simultaneously casting lightning at each other for awhile. Hmm.... all evidence points to Yoda (a "Light Side" Jedi) being able to control Force Lightning.

Btw, it's been almost 2 years since I read the AOTC novelisation (from the library, I own no personal copy). Do the passages in that book describe their "wizards' duel" in any greater detail to help with this?

AFAIK, there's no reason why a Jedi couldn't physically do it. However, to use Force lightning to harm someone would most decidedly be against the philosophy of the Jedi, and that's why you don't see Jedi doing it.
But it's pretty clear that the Force is the Force is the Force, and the difference between the "light" and the "dark" is the philosophy and ethics of the user. After all, Force-sensitives can go from light to dark to light again in their lifetime (Ulic Qel-Droma*, Kyp Durron, Kyle Katarn, Luke Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker), using the same Force, just in different applications.

Here's a promotional image of Yoda manifesting the Force as a lightning bolt - I don't see any reason that he couldn't direct this energy at a person if he was so inclined ... as a matter of fact, as has been pointed out, he did just that to his former padawan in AOTC.

*yes, I know that Qel-Droma's powers were limited if not wholly removed upon his return to the light

The force is a tool ,what counts is the intent behind your usage of of the tool,when Yoda Use Force Lightning against Dooku his intent is to stop Dooku Harming other people (ani,obi) not killing Dooku.
The force is a knife,you can use a knife to stab somebody or you can slice bread,either way the knife is simply a tool, but the intent differ.

[Devil's Advocate]Or you could use the knife to kill some crazy guy who is about to kill your family.[/Devil's Advocate]

As to the question of motive, I wonder if the person was deluded or crazy, and their intentions seemed good, but were ultimately not, would the Force "know" ? That's the complication I see with the "intention" argument, in regards to crazy Jedi.

Or for example, what if Vader's intention is to "bring order to the galaxy" does that mean he's not really on the Dark Side? Arggghh!

We also have GL's commentary in AOTC where he states that he wanted to make sure people knew Dooku was evil so he made sure Dooku displayed a Sith specific power - namely the Force lightining. This would seem to indicate that in GL's view of how the Force works lightning is definately a Dark side ability and even more specifically a Sith talent.

Who the fuck cares what GL thinks.

*Raises hand* The guy who decides what's canon. He says that *anything* said by GL is more important than what's in the EU.

Well that's imbecilic; no unpublished, out-of-universe remarks even exist from a Suspension of Disbelief analytical perspective.

Stravo wrote:We also have GL's commentary in AOTC where he states that he wanted to make sure people knew Dooku was evil so he made sure Dooku displayed a Sith specific power - namely the Force lightining. This would seem to indicate that in GL's view of how the Force works lightning is definately a Dark side ability and even more specifically a Sith talent.

Kinda unnecessary, considering he already had Yoda say "The Dark Side I sense in you.." to him in the very same scene. ; )

And having Yoda use a "Sith Power."


**

I know we're losing patience with the Flanneled One here, but as to Lucas's comments being "unpublished" what do you call them being on the DVD?

I mean incorporated into the in-universe medium, genius. EU literature is treated as historical sources; film as documentary footage in SoD; what's GL's transient, crack-addled ramblings? Whispers from God?

What Primey apparently means to say (although whyy he didn't frame it so I don't know) is that Lucas' comments apply the same way ILM and SPX designers do (such as the "radar globes" and the "500 mile" Death Star claims) - they can be beneficial in helpign to explain and clarify what we see or hear onscreen (or in the case of authors, explaining ambiguities in what we read.) but they are in and of themselves not of the same status or superior to the source material itself.

Lucas cannot claim that Alderaan blew up on its own and had no shield, for example, because this is explicitly contradicted by what is seen onscreen. By a similar note, there is "behind the scenes" evidence that puts the second Death Star at 160 km , even though that it is scaled at a much grreater dimension (and there are later commentary that indicate they changed their minds. In fact, that inconsistency is one of the reasons we don't put 100% faith in behind the scenes or creator commentary - Lucas is well known for changing his mind, and the DS2 size thing demonstrates that things change over time. Hell, its already well established that the "size" of Star Destroyers ranged from one mile to six miles as well.)

Lucas CAN of course revise the movies by producing new ones (like the "modifications" he's made to the OT both in the SE and DVDs) - but this does not automatically overrule "prior" versions - Greedo shooting first in the SE does not automatically override the fact Han did shoot first in the movies (I believe Mike made this argument before on his site, in fact.)

Yes - he called it a form of historical revisionism (at least insofar as strict analysis from a suspension of disbelief perspective is concerned, anyway) - motion pictures and stills have been doctored or altered before in history, afterall.