StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What if their forces joined together to defeat the Empire, how many loyal subjects did Zaarin have?
And what kind damage could Zaarin and the Rebellion have caused upon the Empire with the knowledge he possessed?

Probably not that much.

Zaarin's armada did not appear that impressive and it sounded as if he had more bluster then real power.

How powerful could he have been when a single TIE fighter pilot could foil his plans?

Zaarin, had he joined the Rebels, would have made a move to supplant Mon Mothma and take over the Alliance. Zaarin is like that one really annoying kid in middle school who thinks he is popular but everybody hates him.

I always thought Zaarin was going to (try to) kill Palps and take over the Empire, not join the Alliance.....

The better question is, what if Zaarin had not gone loco and the Tie Defender series went into full swing?

Trytostaydead wrote:The better question is, what if Zaarin had not gone loco and the Tie Defender series went into full swing?

Then the X-WIng squadrons get creamed. In fact, the entire thing with TIEs is honestly rather contrived. Trying to vilify the Empire every inch as possible, they decide to write them as shieldless, ejectionseatless vehicles. That also conveniently gives an excuse for Rogue Squadron to go into a fighter-game like shootup.

They develop the TIE Defender, but they know what would happen if they said it goes into production (even under their warped rules where fighters can murder ships and pilots with 10 hours of training can defeat well-trained Imperial pilots as long as said 10-hour pilot got a shielded fighter), so they said the Emperor put them into storage. Any idiot would have, even with the plans lost, distributed the remaining Defenders around to the factories and see who could replicate the design with a working model.

Nitpick: It was the missile boats that were put into storage, wasn't it?

Had Zaarin joined the Rebellion the added fleet assets would have been greatly appreciated. Three ISDs (minimum) along with upwards of 30 ships ranging from corvettes to strike cruisers and frigates would have gone a long way to beefing up the Rebel fleet. Furthermore using Zaarin's forces to assist in training would have been invaluable.

Zaarin's production assets for the Tie-Avenger and Tie-Defenders would have been put to great use by the Rebellion.

Now after the Emporer likely dies at Endor we see a new power struggle as Zaarin tries to take control of the Rebellion and reorganize it around his thinking. Zaarin might even go so far as to claim sections of the shattered Empire. There is no New Republic if Zaarin gets enough political power and supplants Mon Mothma, Lehia, Ackbar, and any other prominent Rebellion figure in politics and military.

Zaarin had several ISD's at his disposal, interdictor cruisers, dozens of smaller capital warships and some extremely advanced fighters at his disposal (along with other advanced tech). He himself was a tactical genius, and would seriously have helped the Alliance cause just by himself.

Zaarin almost certainly had control of substantially greater fleet assets than the X-wing/TIE fighter games imply, if he is to realistically have any hope of challenging Palpatine and the Empire.

Stravo wrote:How powerful could he have been when a single TIE fighter pilot could foil his plans?

Yeah but that pilot was so damn good, he'd even put Wedge Antilles to shame

Connor MacLeod wrote:Zaarin almost certainly had control of substantially greater fleet assets than the X-wing/TIE fighter games imply, if he is to realistically have any hope of challenging Palpatine and the Empire.

I honestly would hope so.

Though his plan change was just pitiful.

"Okay..kidnap the Emperor and take over the Empire!"

Foiled

"Okay....ummm....destroy the TIE plants for the the Defenders and what not!!!"

Still agree he would have to have significant fleet resources to think of taking the Empire. Sorta makes you wonder how much got taken out or just left after a certain point in TIE Fighter. I mean he actually went to pirates for help at one point.

Actually, I doubt Zaarin was much more than an influencial and popular staff admiral with probably a great reputation among the Admiralty and at the Imperial Court; he probably had insiders which stood to gain from his coup, and would support him in the event he could successfully assasinate Palpatine.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Actually, I doubt Zaarin was much more than an influencial and popular staff admiral with probably a great reputation among the Admiralty and at the Imperial Court; he probably had insiders which stood to gain from his coup, and would support him in the event he could successfully assasinate Palpatine.

Despite Dr. Saxton's assertions to the contrary, he seems to have been a full Grand Admiral, and prior to his coup and Thrawn's elevation he may have even been the smartest of them. His plan, after his attempt to kill the Emperor failed, seems to have been to retreat and set up his own little duchy, hoping that the Empire would get tired ot trying to crack him. It might've worked, too. Zaarin's knowledge of Imperial tactics, industry, technology, etc. allowed him to do a fair deal of damage to the Empire's industrial base, and may have eventually convinced them it was best just to leave him alone.

Master of Ossus wrote:Despite Dr. Saxton's assertions to the contrary, he seems to have been a full Grand Admiral,

Nothing I said was to the contrary of that; he is still the head of Starfighter Research and a staff, not a field, admiral.

Master of Ossus wrote:and prior to his coup and Thrawn's elevation he may have even been the smartest of them.

I doubt it - X-Wing Alliance shows him as a typically-uniformed admiral post-Hoth, which implies he was a staff admiral in charge of research into starfighters even prior to his promotion to grand admiral.

Master of Ossus wrote:His plan, after his attempt to kill the Emperor failed, seems to have been to retreat and set up his own little duchy, hoping that the Empire would get tired ot trying to crack him. It might've worked, too. Zaarin's knowledge of Imperial tactics, industry, technology, etc. allowed him to do a fair deal of damage to the Empire's industrial base, and may have eventually convinced them it was best just to leave him alone.

I doubt it. Since he failed he simply had no choice than to try to resist; his other option was to simply rollover and die, and I don't think he was in favor of that. The strategic forces of the Empire effortlessly suppressed the "Succession Worlds" in weeks. They suppress entire sectors regularly.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Nothing I said was to the contrary of that; he is still the head of Starfighter Research and a staff, not a field, admiral.

Fair enough, although his later battles with Thrawn show that he had a considerable understanding of tactics and strategy. He was even able to spoil some of Thrawn's plots.

I doubt it - X-Wing Alliance shows him as a typically-uniformed admiral post-Hoth, which implies he was a staff admiral in charge of research into starfighters even prior to his promotion to grand admiral.

Okay, but again, TIE Fighter reveals that some of Thrawn's plans were actually foiled by Zaarin and his agents.

I doubt it. Since he failed he simply had no choice than to try to resist; his other option was to simply rollover and die, and I don't think he was in favor of that.

I agree that he didn't really have a good option, but his plan of attacking Imperial infrastructure would have done no good for him unless he wanted it to be the opening salvoes of a drawn out campaign. Otherwise he should have conserved his forces instead of piddling them away by attacking industrial centers.

The strategic forces of the Empire effortlessly suppressed the "Succession Worlds" in weeks. They suppress entire sectors regularly.

Zaarin's rebellion, though, gave the Empire fits since they couldn't trust anyone to put him down. Even Thrawn's fleet had traitors who were feeding Zaarin information about the Imperial fleet's movements against him, and Zaarin took with him several high-ranking Imperial officers.

Rogue 9 wrote:Nitpick: It was the missile boats that were put into storage, wasn't it?

Both kind of were. The last Defenders the Empire had were shipped off somewhere by Thrawn. The Missile Boats were stated to be in "Protective Storage".

Master of Ossus wrote:Fair enough, although his later battles with Thrawn show that he had a considerable understanding of t.actics and strategy. He was even able to spoil some of Thrawn's plots.

Thrawn's talents as a strategist (as opposed to a tactician) are exaggerated.

Master of Ossus wrote:Okay, but again, TIE Fighter reveals that some of Thrawn's plans were actually foiled by Zaarin and his agents.

Your basic assertion was he was a grand admiral, and thus should be a great tactician and have a huge base of military resources. I'm just pointing out how that doesn't follow.

Master of Ossus wrote:I agree that he didn't really have a good option, but his plan of attacking Imperial infrastructure would have done no good for him unless he wanted it to be the opening salvoes of a drawn out campaign. Otherwise he should have conserved his forces instead of piddling them away by attacking industrial centers.

Who knows - maybe he planned to become another guerilla group like the rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic, and that isn't unlike their tactics. Perhaps he aimed to disrupt the Empire's sources for important assets.

Master of Ossus wrote:Zaarin's rebellion, though, gave the Empire fits since they couldn't trust anyone to put him down. Even Thrawn's fleet had traitors who were feeding Zaarin information about the Imperial fleet's movements against him, and Zaarin took with him several high-ranking Imperial officers.

Like I said, Zaarin must have been a greatly respected officer with significant clout and sympathy in the Fleet.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:Fair enough, although his later battles with Thrawn show that he had a considerable understanding of t.actics and strategy. He was even able to spoil some of Thrawn's plots.

Thrawn's talents as a strategist (as opposed to a tactician) are exaggerated.

Master of Ossus wrote:Okay, but again, TIE Fighter reveals that some of Thrawn's plans were actually foiled by Zaarin and his agents.

Your basic assertion was he was a grand admiral, and thus should be a great tactician and have a huge base of military resources. I'm just pointing out how that doesn't follow.

Master of Ossus wrote:I agree that he didn't really have a good option, but his plan of attacking Imperial infrastructure would have done no good for him unless he wanted it to be the opening salvoes of a drawn out campaign. Otherwise he should have conserved his forces instead of piddling them away by attacking industrial centers.

Who knows - maybe he planned to become another guerilla group like the rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic, and that isn't unlike their tactics. Perhaps he aimed to disrupt the Empire's sources for important assets.

Master of Ossus wrote:Zaarin's rebellion, though, gave the Empire fits since they couldn't trust anyone to put him down. Even Thrawn's fleet had traitors who were feeding Zaarin information about the Imperial fleet's movements against him, and Zaarin took with him several high-ranking Imperial officers.

Like I said, Zaarin must have been a greatly respected officer with significant clout and sympathy in the Fleet.

It's really easy in books to make somebody omniscient, like Zahn did with Admiral Thrawn (I wonder if the name similary is an accident?). After reading the books I got really annoyed with Thrawn's "brilliance" and how he always anticipated what the New Republic was planning. That's horse puckey.

I doubt Zaarin had any planetary resources at his disposal. He was in charge of fighter research and had a considerable fleet at his disposal, but he was an admiral, not a governor. After Palpatine died, admirals became more powerful because they could use their fleets to carve out a planetary dominion, but before they were simply fleet commanders.

The Rebellion probably would have done better at Endor if they had a bunch of ISDs and Defenders on their side.

StarshipTitanic wrote: The Rebellion probably would have done better at Endor if they had a bunch of ISDs and Defenders on their side.

The Empire was concerned about such a situation when the Missile Boat fell in to Rebel hands so close to Endor, hence Vader himself going after it.