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Making the Kesel Run in.....Parsecs? Heh.
Posted: 2004-11-19 08:30am
by Chardok
I think I have a theory. Maybe.....okay, well we all know that there are hyperspace "Lanes". Maybe Han was actually talking distance and not time. what I mean is, he made the Kessel run by finding a new Hyperspace route to it? Instead of the old method of jumping from point a to b to c to d, He found Hyperspace lanes such that the falcons interstellar odometer had him travelling less than (whatever he said) Parsecs worth of hyperspace. (Translating to X distance in realspace) Using this, we may actually be able to determine the speed of travel in Hyperspace...or something.
Posted: 2004-11-19 09:40am
by Enforcer Talen
ever read the han solo triolgy?
Posted: 2004-11-19 09:41am
by Spanky The Dolphin
Boy, did you ever miss the bus.
Posted: 2004-11-19 12:29pm
by Mange
Hmm, GL explained the Kessel run / Parsec thing in the ANH DVD commentary:
And there's one of the concepts that is sort of controversial is the fact that when Han Solo talks about getting from point A to point B. He talks in terms of 'parsecs', which is distance rather than time. The premise being that in order to travel through Hyperspace you have to plot a course around all of the stuff. You know, all of the uh, planets and stars and everything. So that the fastest way between two points is a straight line and it's up to your navi-computer and your navigations skills. That's what makes you go fast and in the particular case of the Millennium Falcon, the Millennium Falcon has an extremely sophisticated navigation system. So its, the reason it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not because it actually has speed but it has navigational skills that allows it to go from point A to point B faster than anybody else. And, of course, that was never explained and people got very confused by it but if you follow the story, I think you would figure it out, that speed is determined by distance. I mean, it's the speed that you get to a point is the distance you travel. If there's a lot in the way and if you fly through something it'll, obviously, destroy you. So the idea is you got to plot a course around everything to get there in the fastest route.
Posted: 2004-11-19 02:53pm
by Kurgan
Mange the Swede wrote:Hmm, GL explained the Kessel run / Parsec thing in the ANH DVD commentary:
And there's one of the concepts that is sort of controversial is the fact that when Han Solo talks about getting from point A to point B. He talks in terms of 'parsecs', which is distance rather than time. The premise being that in order to travel through Hyperspace you have to plot a course around all of the stuff. You know, all of the uh, planets and stars and everything. So that the fastest way between two points is a straight line and it's up to your navi-computer and your navigations skills. That's what makes you go fast and in the particular case of the Millennium Falcon, the Millennium Falcon has an extremely sophisticated navigation system. So its, the reason it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not because it actually has speed but it has navigational skills that allows it to go from point A to point B faster than anybody else. And, of course, that was never explained and people got very confused by it but if you follow the story, I think you would figure it out, that speed is determined by distance. I mean, it's the speed that you get to a point is the distance you travel. If there's a lot in the way and if you fly through something it'll, obviously, destroy you. So the idea is you got to plot a course around everything to get there in the fastest route.
CANON
Posted: 2004-11-19 03:40pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
Well, at the least, the Kessel Run has had an official explenation for nearly ten years.
Posted: 2004-11-20 04:33pm
by The Dark
Something additional is that right near Kessel is the Maw, a grouping of black holes. Between that and the neutron stars nearby, gravity is a beast when plotting hyperspace routes. Basically, Han had a good enough ship to "cut corners" that nobody else dared cut for fear of getting sucked into something.
Posted: 2004-11-20 04:37pm
by nasor
And there's one of the concepts that is sort of controversial is the fact that when Han Solo talks about getting from point A to point B. He talks in terms of 'parsecs', which is distance rather than time. The premise being that in order to travel through Hyperspace you have to plot a course around all of the stuff. You know, all of the uh, planets and stars and everything. So that the fastest way between two points is a straight line and it's up to your navi-computer and your navigations skills. That's what makes you go fast and in the particular case of the Millennium Falcon, the Millennium Falcon has an extremely sophisticated navigation system. So its, the reason it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not because it actually has speed but it has navigational skills that allows it to go from point A to point B faster than anybody else. And, of course, that was never explained and people got very confused by it but if you follow the story, I think you would figure it out, that speed is determined by distance. I mean, it's the speed that you get to a point is the distance you travel. If there's a lot in the way and if you fly through something it'll, obviously, destroy you. So the idea is you got to plot a course around everything to get there in the fastest route.
I guess this is cannon, but as has been pointed out before it’s a pretty stupid explanation. For one thing, if Han was bragging about his navigational abilities with his ‘under twelve parsecs’ comment then it wouldn’t be an appropriate response to the question that he was asked. He was asked about the speed of his ship, not his navigational abilities.
Also, it’s pretty outlandish to suggest that a broken-down smuggler’s freighter has a better navigational computer than a top-of-the-line Imperial war ship.
Posted: 2004-11-20 04:59pm
by Rogue 9
It's an appropriate answer because the ship was fast enough to cut closer to the Maw than an Imperial ship without getting sucked in. Being able to escape such a gravity well is entirely a function of thrust/mass ratio, and the Falcon's was the highest around.
Posted: 2004-11-20 05:55pm
by nasor
Rogue 9 wrote:It's an appropriate answer because the ship was fast enough to cut closer to the Maw than an Imperial ship without getting sucked in. Being able to escape such a gravity well is entirely a function of thrust/mass ratio, and the Falcon's was the highest around.
Lucas seems to be backing off from the original explanation about the Falcon cutting close to a black hole here.
Posted: 2004-11-20 06:22pm
by Rogue 9
nasor wrote:Rogue 9 wrote:It's an appropriate answer because the ship was fast enough to cut closer to the Maw than an Imperial ship without getting sucked in. Being able to escape such a gravity well is entirely a function of thrust/mass ratio, and the Falcon's was the highest around.
Lucas seems to be backing off from the original explanation about the Falcon cutting close to a black hole here.
His explanation isn't an in-universe one. Is it canon? I don't know the answer to that, but until I know the commentaries are in the G canon I'm going with the engine power. After all, that makes more sense when taken in context with Han telling Lando that the Falcon was "the fastest ship in the fleet." A good navicomputer wouldn't do much for sublight combat speed.
Posted: 2004-11-20 07:04pm
by Praxis
We've known this for ages. It was measured in distance (Parsecs) because the Kessel Run involves going near a huge cluster of black holes. It's a long course through these black holes. Making the run in a shorter distance means the Falcon skirted very close to these black holes, closer than most ships would ever dare to.
Posted: 2004-11-22 11:16am
by Chardok
See, I didn't know all this was all official and shit, I haven't read any of the books, just movies. I thought I was being pretty damned clever when pondering this shizzle, but I see that I am only scratching the surface of your great and powerful intellects. Now, I've got to go berate and belittle and generally smoke the shit out of a new batch of recruits at the HAB training facility now to reboost my ego. I'll let them know why I'm feeling so....inferior. they'll be happy with you guys.
Posted: 2004-11-22 03:18pm
by The Dark
Chardok, that post fit perfectly with your avatar...
God, I feel sorry for the HAB recruits
.
But anyway, it's just that some of it was covered in the Han Solo trilogy, and some of it from information about Kessel in other books. No biggie.
Posted: 2004-11-22 06:39pm
by taccovert4
Rogue 9 wrote: After all, that makes more sense when taken in context with Han telling Lando that the Falcon was "the fastest ship in the fleet." A good navicomputer wouldn't do much for sublight combat speed.
In one of the Books (post RTJ) Han describes the 'infamous Kessel Run'. He states that he dropped the shipment, ran like crap so darn close to the Maw that an Imperial Patrol Craft was sucked in, turned around, came back but the shipment had already been sucked into the cluster.
The parsec is the second of 3 practical units for measuring distance in space
1. Light Years
2. Parsecs
3. Astronomical Units (distance from Earth to Sun, not practical outside solar system)
And you are right, if my reading was correct, then part of that run was at sublight, not hyperspeed. In HS you have a much improved T-M ratio. Making part of that run in sublight (how else would you see a patrol craft get sucked in) means that the Falcon had one of the best T-M ratios in the galaxy, or at least in the shipping and smuggling arena (as this was the context of his braggadacio to Obi-Wan)
Posted: 2004-11-24 11:55am
by FireNexus
You know, I know the books say he was telling the truth, but I always thought the best explanation was that he was trying to bullshit Obi-Wan and Luke, since he is an unscrupulous smuggler and all (at least to begin with).
Posted: 2004-11-25 07:09pm
by Spiritbw
FireNexus wrote:You know, I know the books say he was telling the truth, but I always thought the best explanation was that he was trying to bullshit Obi-Wan and Luke, since he is an unscrupulous smuggler and all (at least to begin with).
I see someone else read 'The Science of Star Wars'
. To be honest, while it's non-canon I thought that was probably the best answer to that line in all the explinations I had heard.