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Correct me if I am wrong but...

Is Darth just a shortened version of the full title...

Dark Lord of the Sith

Or is that just a coincidence???

Has been asked before For example by me in this thread

That's fanon, and nothing more.

The original use of the term so far observed was the assumption of the names Darth Revan and Darth Malak by two corrupted Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian Wars following the fall of Sith Lord Exar Kun.

The background story suggests their given names were "Revan" and "Malak" (prior to the assumption of the "Darth" name-title) particularly in the case of Revan, but this seems silly in context.

It seems likely that a pre-Kun Sith Lord was named Darth, and this inspired the newest Lords of the Sith, but there's no proof.

Anyway, in addition to assuming new names with the Darth preceding them, they also borrowed from the Kun-Qel Droma dynamic of "Dark Lord of the Sith" and "Foremost Sith Apprentice," respectively. Darth Revan became Dark Lord of the Sith, and Darth Malak his foremost apprentice and lieutenant. This very same dynamic would be adapted into the Sith Master-Sith Apprentice dichotomy (where Dark Lord of the Sith is simply a badge of mastery, not of rank) which would characterize the Sith Order founded by Lord Darth Bane (it seems likely he was inspired by Malak and his successors and similarly renamed himself, and then enforced this practice on his Order). However, the Sith Order of Malak and Revan did not limit itself to two individual true Sith. Dark Lord of the Sith still represented the reigning authority over the Sith, with a foremost apprentice who also had a "Darth" pseudonym, and a host of lesser Sith warriors and apprentices.

Lord Darth Revan would be captured by the Jedi Order as a result of his apprentice's treachery. Darth Malak would assume the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith and elevated one of the lesser Sith to his personal apprentice and lieutenant: Darth Bandon.

Revan, reprogrammed as a Jedi, would defeat Malak and destroy the Star Forge, breaking the Order. However, the war continued, and the Jedi Order as a cohesive entity was disbanded. However, the Sith Order remained factionalized. It appears that two rival claimants to the Dark Lordship of the Sith arose: Darth Nihilis (characterized by the facial mask), and Darth Sion (characterized by his scarred, mutiliated body).

So you have the original Sith Empire founded by Jedi heretic refugees from the galaxy proper. They blended their corruption of Jedi power and philosophy with the original arcane dark side magic practiced by the Sith species' priesthood. This eventually evolved into the unique Sith philosophies and skills.

The Sith Empire was ruled by an all-powerful monarch, known as the Dark Lord of the Sith. The Sith Empire's nobility was a host of Lords of the Sith (different from the Dark Lord of the Sith). Below them was a warrior and acolyte class of Sith practioners. After reunion with the mainstream galactic civilization, the Sith Empire was obliterated by a combination of civil war (between the factions of Lord Ludo Kresh and Lord Naga Sadow, both aspirants to the throne vacated by the late Dark Lord Marka Ragnos) and invasion by military forces from the Galactic Republic. This conflict was the Great Hyperspace War.

A thousand years later, Jedi Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma would end up dueling for control of Sith artifacts and heritage. The spirit of Marka Ragnos called off the fighting, and appointed Exar Kun Dark Lord of the Sith, and selected Qel-Droma to be his personal apprentice. This new Sith Order trained more underlings - such as the Krath, and a host of corrupted Jedi apprentices. However, Qel-Droma was stripped of the Force and Kun imprisoned in his temples on Yavin IV. Kun's Sith Empire imploded in the aftermath of the Great Sith War.

The remaining Mandalorians continued a military campaign against the reeling Galactic Republic in the Mandalorian Wars. A pair of Jedi would lead the Republic to victory - they become Malak and Revan, and found a Sith Order.

Their war becomes known, collectively with the contined conflict after the destruction of the Star Forge, as the Jedi Civil War.

Much later, 2,000 B.B.Y., a Jedi Knight falls to the dark side, and possibly with the assistance of surviving Sith monks and adepts, founds the Sith Brotherhood. A thousand years later, this group will be annhiliated with most of the Jedi - an entire faction known as the Army of Light - at Ruusan, after which, Sith survivor Darth Bane will found a new Sith Order, modeled primarily after Malak and Revan's Order. However, it takes lessons from the infighting that consumed that Order as well as the pitfalls of the recent Brotherhood, limits the number of true Sith at any time to two and specifically eskews direct, overt confrontation with the Sith Order.

Bane's Sith Order is destroyed over Onderon ten years after the Battle of Yavin when Emperor Palpatine, the Lord Sidious, is finally dispersed into the void, denied any remaining hosts to sustain him.

A splinter Sith group has begun, however - Lord Vader trained a third Sith (in blatant violation of one of his Order's central tenents), Lumiya. She passed her trial on Ziost while Vader and Palpatine are killed at Endor. She assumes the mantle of Dark Lady of the Sith, and takes an apprentice - one of Vader's minions, Lord Flint. He will be redeemed by Luke Skywalker. Lady Lumiya assumes a new apprentice in Royal Guardsman Carnor Jax. He will be killed in combat with by fellow Guardsman Kir Kanos for his betrayal of Palpatine. Lumiya is not known to have another apprentice after Lord Jax's death. It is curious to note that Jax assumed no pseudonym, and we have no reason to suggest "Flint" was a pseudonym. "Darth" appears to have fallen out of use with the end of Bane's Order, although Lumiya did retain the symbolic renaming of herself from her true name of Shria Brie.

The title Darth being the name of a famous Dark Jedi wouldn't be without precedent, after all Caesar was adopted by the Emperors of Rome.

Perhaps (as a fan retcon), we could assume that folks like Exar Kun, etc, simply went by their "real names" and their "sith names" (with the "Darth" in the title) were lost to history.

That would explain why "earlier" Sith used the title (if I'm understanding the KOTOR info correctly, not having played the game), but then others did not.

The only remaining problem would be that Darth Bane is supposed to be the one who "invented" the Darth thing, or it was taken from him (like Julius Caesar's name giving rise to the title used by the Roman Emperors). I suppose you could say that the Darth tradition was used for awhile, then died out, then was revived thanks to Bane. Or perhaps this was a new emphasis in the Sith tradition, because the "Darth" names were not used so much as they were after him/because of him, as a "name of state" (like "Queen Amidala" or "Pope John Paul II").

Hooray for LucasLiscensing! Or something...

SCVN 2812 wrote:The title Darth being the name of a famous Dark Jedi wouldn't be without precedent, after all Caesar was adopted by the Emperors of Rome.

and a few other places after that. Kaiser and Czar for instance.


I kind of like the idea that Darth is a shortened version of Dark Lord of the Sith whether it's cannon or not.

Kurgan wrote:Perhaps (as a fan retcon), we could assume that folks like Exar Kun, etc, simply went by their "real names" and their "sith names" (with the "Darth" in the title) were lost to history.

That would explain why "earlier" Sith used the title (if I'm understanding the KOTOR info correctly, not having played the game), but then others did not.

Unnecessary. There's no contradiction. Exar Kun's new Sith Empire is distinct and seperate from Malak's and Revan's Sith Order, which is distinct from the much later Sith Brotherhood.

Kurgan wrote:The only remaining problem would be that Darth Bane is supposed to be the one who "invented" the Darth thing, or it was taken from him (like Julius Caesar's name giving rise to the title used by the Roman Emperors).

I don't think he was officially said to have ever done that.

Kurgan wrote:I suppose you could say that the Darth tradition was used for awhile, then died out, then was revived thanks to Bane.

I already said exactly that. I notice you do this a lot.

SCVN 2812 wrote:The title Darth being the name of a famous Dark Jedi wouldn't be without precedent, after all Caesar was adopted by the Emperors of Rome.

This was my thinking. Someone powerful enough to forever characterize his name as being emblematic of the position.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:

SCVN 2812 wrote:The title Darth being the name of a famous Dark Jedi wouldn't be without precedent, after all Caesar was adopted by the Emperors of Rome.

This was my thinking. Someone powerful enough to forever characterize his name as being emblematic of the position.

I imagine it was one of the most powerful Dark Lords of the Sith of the original Sith Empire, possibly the original founding leader of the Sith Empire.

SCVN 2812 wrote:The title Darth being the name of a famous Dark Jedi wouldn't be without precedent, after all Caesar was adopted by the Emperors of Rome.

Except that some were not famous, such as Darth Maul, no one even really knew his name except Sidious and the two Nemoidians.

You don't understand - he means to suggest that the individual origin of the name was probably famous, even if the insular and secretive later Order wishes to be invisible, it privately assumes honors and continuity inherent by assuming such names.

Unnecessary. There's no contradiction. Exar Kun's new Sith Empire is distinct and seperate from Malak's and Revan's Sith Order, which is distinct from the much later Sith Brotherhood.

Reminds me of the revival of the Republic. Sure, it works. It's just another way of thinking about it.

Kurgan wrote:The only remaining problem would be that Darth Bane is supposed to be the one who "invented" the Darth thing, or it was taken from him (like Julius Caesar's name giving rise to the title used by the Roman Emperors).

I don't think he was officially said to have ever done that.

Ok. My mistake then. Who started the "Darth" title usage?

Kurgan wrote:I suppose you could say that the Darth tradition was used for awhile, then died out, then was revived thanks to Bane.

I already said exactly that. I notice you do this a lot.

[/quote]

What, admit your option is also plausible? Heaven forbid anyone should do such a thing! I should start up a special database of what you say on here, so I can be sure not to repeat anything.

Since Revan, Malak and presumably Bandon all used their real names I'd guess that the use of "code names" (Bane, Sidious, Maul, Tyranus, Vader) was adopted by Bane for the purpose of secrecy. IE, if someone hears something about a Darth Sidious they're far less likely to connect it to the kindly old Senator from Naboo than if they hear someone say Darth Palpatine.

Perhaps (as a fan retcon), we could assume that folks like Exar Kun, etc, simply went by their "real names" and their "sith names" (with the "Darth" in the title) were lost to history.

That would explain why "earlier" Sith used the title (if I'm understanding the KOTOR info correctly, not having played the game), but then others did not.

This makes it sound like Exar Kun's Sith Empire came after that started by Malak and Revan. Revan and Malak came after Exar Kun, not before.

Vympel wrote:

Perhaps (as a fan retcon), we could assume that folks like Exar Kun, etc, simply went by their "real names" and their "sith names" (with the "Darth" in the title) were lost to history.

That would explain why "earlier" Sith used the title (if I'm understanding the KOTOR info correctly, not having played the game), but then others did not.

This makes it sound like Exar Kun's Sith Empire came after that started by Malak and Revan. Revan and Malak came after Exar Kun, not before.

I thought they did, which is why the whole "Darth" thing in their case was incongruous. My mistake then.

But it's really because of Bane, isn't it? Or is it....?