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I've finished reading Wraith Squadron, and then tried reading Iron Fist.

Simply put, it sucks. I mean it's really bad. And I went in on Allston's side, here.

Ok so I will explain why, so as not to present this as a mere vent. I will do it in list format to irritate Spanky:

• Why do we have fighter jockeys on commando missions? Please, can SOMEBODY answer me this? This is a fault of ALL the X-wing novels, not just Allston's WS trilogy. Indeed, WS tries to make it sound more plausible by having Wedge form the group from misfits with commando experience. The RS books have no excuse. But why can't we have a SAS group instead, with the Rogues/Wraiths fighting alongside them but from the air? I don't know who the fuck he is, but Lieutenant Page is supposed to be a Rebel Commando. So why don't we SEE the Rebel Commandos, and let the fighter-jockey's fly their ships? It's irritating to see the writers try to make their fanwank characters into superheroes.
• On that last point, I always thought that the X-wing books were supposed to show the GRUNTS of the Rebellion/Empire, books like the Thrawn Trilogy show the Big Guys, like GADM Mitt'hraw'nurodo and Jedi Knight Skywalker, or Counselor Organa, or Talon Karrde. All of them big leaders, and in some cases heroic and with freaky powers, or just simply talented. Why do the same fucking thing? Why is Wedge invincible? Corran a force-sensitive? Why is Nawara a lawyer? Maybe he should be in the JAG office and not Starfighter Command. Why is Face adept at interpersonal skills? Maybe he should be in Military Intelligence and play the spy. Why is Kell not in the Commandos? He's tough and strong, and adept at fighting, and piloting seems to be an ancilliary skill not his main one. Why is Myn Donos not a sniper? Instead he pilots a squadron, yet we are expected to believe he's ALSO a crackshot with a sniper rifle.
  
  (IIRC someone here was a sniper - Rob Wilson? - maybe he can comment on the plausibility of being both a sniper and a fighter pilot. Wicked Pilot will be more pissed off I am sure, as he has pointed this brainbug out before)
• 8 KM 'Super' Star Destroyers. Even if you forget about scaling and going by what the canon movies go by, it's still idiotic to call it a Super Star Destroyer. The comics by Al Williamson and Archie Goodwin gave a name to Vader's flagship, and pointed out how it was the first ship of it's class. It should be an Excutor-class Star Something. Having both the Rebels and Imperials call it a Super Star Destroyer is embarassing.
• IIRC X-wing laser cannons do kiloton level damage right? Or was that their proton torpedos? Either one, you wouldn't know it from these books, as you'd often have characters destroy something on the ground and it will be showed to be a small explosion that destroys the building but little else. Just saying "I'm turning the cannon power down to make strafing runs" would have been welcome, but no...
• The characters suck. Less so in WS, but that doesn't mean they're immune to criticism. Lara Notsil's personality crisis was just incomprehensible. "I'm Gara!... No, wait, Lara!... NO, I'm Gara! Who the fuck am I again? ARRGHHHHH!" Janson was good, but he's the only one I really liked. Kell smolders with generic rage. Myn Donos smolders with generic rage. Ton Phanon smolders with generic rage. Face smolders with generic rage. Tyria smolders with generic rage. Runt has multi-personality disorder. Corran is an arrogant dick. Tycho smolders with generic rage. UGH.
• The complete and utter bullshit anti-Imperial bias. Dear fucking god. I hate the Empire and I'm on the Rebel's side, but shit, there's a limit. When I read the TTT you see a skilful contrast and comparison between the two, but if you read the X-wing books then the Imperials are so irredeemably evil that only an idiot could ever support them, and the Rebels are so much better in comparison. Straight out of the Horse's mouth, Lara basically says "OMG, the Empire used a culture of fear on itself while these Rebels are sitting back joking and chilling out!"
• The villains. For fuck's sake. This is what I alluded to in the above point, but it deserves it's own section. Zsinj has a crewman executed because he was disobeying orders, yet it was shown he was a proficient pilot. His solution was: test him to see if he's a worthy pilot, then execute him for disobeying orders. Yep. Right. That makes sense. Zsinj need to twirl a moustache, right there.
  
  And Isard? "Oh, I'll release a virus into Coruscant, because I'm Evil. With a capital E. And I'll torture Tycho and Corran, because I need to prove I'm EEEEEEvil. Just in case you haven't figured it out yet, I also slept with the Emperor, so I'm also a tremendous Slut too."
  
  Jesus. Where is the Imperial version of the Desert Fox? The guy who the Rebels fought but without 'hate'?

Ugh. So the EU sucks. I could have just believed that and chose not to waste tens of dollars on it. I still need to check out the Crispin trilogy, but right now I'm no longer holding out any hope.

I liked Runt. It was an interesting alien psychology to add to the universe.

I agree with the rest of your comments, though .

I actually prefer the Bacta war vintage Xwing over the Wraith's.

The X-Wing series as a whole is, to put it mildly, hit-or-miss. A few of the books were genuinely enjoyable, but by-and-large the series was weak. Piggy was the only remotely interesting character that was really introduced, and he's severely under-used compared with the rest of the Justice League team members.

Master of Ossus wrote:The X-Wing series as a whole is, to put it mildly, hit-or-miss. A few of the books were genuinely enjoyable, but by-and-large the series was weak. Piggy was the only remotely interesting character that was really introduced, and he's severely under-used compared with the rest of the Justice League team members.

Funny, cause I never really liked Piggy. I like Horn, for a hybrid Han/Luke character. There is the chance of too much uberness, but.....this is SW.

I liked Kell too. Though the Wraiths are < Rogues, imo.

I dunno... I didn't actually read the books seriously. I read them purely for entertainment. In that sense, it's somewhat like they're spoofs/parodies of the movie universe; funny, not really intended to be serious. For example, in Wraith Squadron you have the classic buddy/buddy interaction with Phanan and Face; in Iron Fist and Solo Command you have the Kettch joke introduced (Yub yub!); and so forth.

Really, if you just read them for fun, they ain't half bad... I didn't read them seriously, and enjoyed them. As a matter of fact, I thought the Wraith Squadron novels to be much the best of the series, with the exception of The Bacta War, Isard's Revenge and Starfighters of Adumar (which was actually semi-medicore, but better than the first three).

Wait, Coran Horn got tortured in one of the books?

Good. I hope they crushed his testicles in a vice, or at least kicked them in until they ceased operation.

Even if I didn't prefer the Wraith Squadron books for any other reason, It'd simply be because I hate Corran Horn. Seriously, by the time of the NJO Corran Horn is the fucking God-Emperor of Mankind; He has no character flaws, he can do no wrong, I want him to die in a gruesome manner; Preferably by having his internal organs removed over a course of days.

[/rant]

They should also be then force-fed to him.

The only thing I remember really liking about those books was that joke about Kettch the Ewok.

Am I the only one who enjoys those EU books?
Maybe I should be like you, start taking them seriously, but come on, read them for fun, not for analysing them for every possible nitpick.

Haven't read them, but I think some of them might have been written by Micheael Stackpole. If so that explains a lot (Stackpole sucks, big time).

Yeah. 4 or 5 of them, I can't be bothered looking.

'Read them for fun'? Jesus christ, what the fuck do you think I read FOR? I read to be entertained, not to have my SoD ripped from me. If the plot or characters dont make sense, if they're indeed, idiotic, I'm not having fun. I'm restraining myself from throwing the shit across the room.

Imperial Overlord wrote:Haven't read them, but I think some of them might have been written by Micheael Stackpole. If so that explains a lot (Stackpole sucks, big time).

*DM Lightning.*

Stofsk wrote:'Read them for fun'? Jesus christ, what the fuck do you think I read FOR? I read to be entertained, not to have my SoD ripped from me. If the plot or characters dont make sense, if they're indeed, idiotic, I'm not having fun. I'm restraining myself from throwing the shit across the room.

Gotta agree with you. There's a couple of nice passages, but these books by and large showcase the worst of the EU. Bacta War, we have an ISD Captain go stark raving insane as he begins to lose the battle. Wraith Squadron was possibly the worst in this regard. The Duke Boys fool an ISD into thinking they're the Millennium Falcon, making it stray from its primary mission goal. Even though that ISD has numerous support craft like assault shuttles and TIE fighters to check on this secondary concern.

Then we have that idiotic scene where Wedge has a Correlian Corvette pointed "up" at an ISD's belly, using the engines to kick up a dust cloud from the moon below it so the ship can't be seen visually, while free to fire directly on the ISD. The ISD commander would rather sit right over the moon and do absolutely nothing while being blasted to pieces by Wedge and his amazing supercommandos. Its amazing that Wedge knows the Imps will be too stupid to TARGET THE BILLOWING DUST CLOUD.

Why do we have fighter jockeys on commando missions?

Because they do. If I recall correctly, Wraith Squadron begins with Wedge basically exclaiming, "Why do we send pilots on Commando missions? I'd better get pilots with commando expertise on the side."

They were pushed into it by circumstance, not by choice. Learn how to read.

And Isard? "Oh, I'll release a virus into Coruscant, because I'm Evil. With a capital E.

Her plan was to deliberately allow the Rebels to get control of Coruscant so they'd take the heat for being unable to control the Krytos virus. She spells out her plan pretty explicitly several times in the book. You'd have to be an absolute idiot - or an illiterate - to miss it.

SPOOFE wrote:

Why do we have fighter jockeys on commando missions?

Because they do. If I recall correctly, Wraith Squadron begins with Wedge basically exclaiming, "Why do we send pilots on Commando missions? I'd better get pilots with commando expertise on the side."

They were pushed into it by circumstance, not by choice. Learn how to read.

Bullshit. Wedge had to beg Ackbar to make Wraith Squadron, you idiot. They weren't pushed into it 'by circumstance' it was COMPLETELY by their choice.

What pilots are gonna have commando expertise, by the way?

And Isard? "Oh, I'll release a virus into Coruscant, because I'm Evil. With a capital E.

Her plan was to deliberately allow the Rebels to get control of Coruscant so they'd take the heat for being unable to control the Krytos virus. She spells out her plan pretty explicitly several times in the book. You'd have to be an absolute idiot - or an illiterate - to miss it.

Her plan was fucked, and I must be illiterate or absolutely idiotic because I think it was fucking stupid. Yep. Nice one.

[EDIT] Actually, I was commenting on the needless evil she displayed, not the merits of her plan.

Stofsk wrote:[EDIT] Actually, I was commenting on the needless evil she displayed, not the merits of her plan.

Because, as we all know, the Empire would never be needlessly evil.

Rogue 9 wrote:

Stofsk wrote:[EDIT] Actually, I was commenting on the needless evil she displayed, not the merits of her plan.

Because, as we all know, the Empire would never be needlessly evil.

I know you're kidding, but seriously this is a pet peeve of mine. Needlessly evil villains are stupid. I would much rather have a villain who DOESN'T think he or she is evil, yet does it anyway. Thrawn falls into the latter category.

There's a difference between being evil and being Snidely Whiplash.

Stofsk wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:

Stofsk wrote:[EDIT] Actually, I was commenting on the needless evil she displayed, not the merits of her plan.

Because, as we all know, the Empire would never be needlessly evil.

I know you're kidding, but seriously this is a pet peeve of mine. Needlessly evil villains are stupid. I would much rather have a villain who DOESN'T think he or she is evil, yet does it anyway. Thrawn falls into the latter category.

Well, let's chalk up Tarkin as stupid.

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, let's chalk up Tarkin as stupid.

*sigh*

Ask yourself honestly Rogue, did you HAVE to bring that up?

What, what fuck up did Rouge commit?

It's the obvious example of needless evil, is it not?

"Oh, I'll release a virus into Coruscant, because I'm Evil. With a capital E."

"Oh, I'll destroy the planet because I'm Evil. With a capital E." Similar, no?