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I was conversing with someone over IM about this, and I hit on this idea about a possible way of improving ROTJ, or at least making it different. Not sure if it has merit, but here are the things I would change:

• Lando replaces Han as the commando leader, or is in the team. General Madine is down there as well. Remember we see Lando infiltrate Jabba's palace at the start. It is not much of a stretch to go from there to another commando mission. General Madine, of course, is the Rebel's SpecOps commander IIRC.
• So Han of course flies the Falcon - AS IT SHOULD BE. This is one of my pet peeves with ROTJ: Han comes off as weak in it, whereas in the last two films he was a strong character in the last, he seemed almost emasculated. He needs to be behind the joystick of the Falcon, or he's nothing.
• Wookiees instead of Ewoks? I didn't mind the Ewoks, but I would have LOVED to have seen them as a non primitive society that used blasters instead of bows and arrows. Added spice would have thrown Leia in there as a clandestine diplomacy mission to enlist the Ewoks as soldiers against the Empire, who were building a battlestation in orbit of their world. Or better yet, they were already onboard and she was going in to deliver arms and equipment, when she get's captured by the imperials...
• Leia is taken hostage by the Empire, but I want to do this because a) she's a diplomat, so why is she going on a commando mission? and b) because it gets her, Luke, Vader/Anakin and the Emperor into one big room with each other. Can you say "family reunion"? I can. Perhaps Luke finds out that she's her sister in the climax of the film? Along with Vader/Anakin and Leia herself, with Palpatine cackling like the greatest joke ever told passed in front of him. Added point of drama: Han has to make the final run into the DS2's main reactor, knowing full well that the woman he loves and the kid who saved him from being a wall ornament are inside. Tough decisions.

Do these ideas have merit? Like I said, this was more random musings than anything structured, but it occured to me that ROTJ could have been improved simply by shuffling the characters around. Putting them in different places. Thoughts? Agree, disagree? Put down the bong, Stofsky?

Stofsk wrote:

• Lando replaces Han as the commando leader, or is in the team. General Madine is down there as well. Remember we see Lando infiltrate Jabba's palace at the start. It is not much of a stretch to go from there to another commando mission. General Madine, of course, is the Rebel's SpecOps commander IIRC.
• So Han of course flies the Falcon - AS IT SHOULD BE. This is one of my pet peeves with ROTJ: Han comes off as weak in it, whereas in the last two films he was a strong character in the last, he seemed almost emasculated. He needs to be behind the joystick of the Falcon, or he's nothing.

Would have been nice, but I still like the fact that more than the same three people get to do cool stuff.

[*]Wookiees instead of Ewoks? I didn't mind the Ewoks, but I would have LOVED to have seen them as a non primitive society that used blasters instead of bows and arrows. Added spice would have thrown Leia in there as a clandestine diplomacy mission to enlist the Ewoks as soldiers against the Empire, who were building a battlestation in orbit of their world. Or better yet, they were already onboard and she was going in to deliver arms and equipment, when she get's captured by the imperials...

A decent switch, but since we´re getting Wookies with blasters, fighters and catamarans in ROTS, I say let´s have them both. Besides, those ewoks are actually quite strong. They just have their size and cuteness-factor against them. =/

[*]Leia is taken hostage by the Empire, but I want to do this because a) she's a diplomat, so why is she going on a commando mission? and b) because it gets her, Luke, Vader/Anakin and the Emperor into one big room with each other. Can you say "family reunion"? I can. Perhaps Luke finds out that she's her sister in the climax of the film? Along with Vader/Anakin and Leia herself, with Palpatine cackling like the greatest joke ever told passed in front of him. Added point of drama: Han has to make the final run into the DS2's main reactor, knowing full well that the woman he loves and the kid who saved him from being a wall ornament are inside. Tough decisions.[/list]

I like that last bit. Very dramatic! Should have had you as a writer in the early eighties.

I only care to answer the last idea.

I don't like it. First of all, Leia seriously would have nothing to do. Luke allows himself to be captured so he can confront the Emperor and bring his father back to the Light Side.

Yeah, Leia used to be a senator, but she's a soldier now: most of the higher-ups in the Rebellion used to be political figures. Leia's job is to help lead the sabotage mission on the shield projector, she isn't needed on the Death Star. What's she going to do, argue poli-philosophy and human rights with Palpatine while Vader and Luke fight to the death?

Umm, is this turning into a fanboy forum ?

EDIT: I'm sorry GhostRider. My intent was to comment on the list, but I got tired. But I don't usually spam, so here are my two cents:

Stofsk wrote:Lando replaces Han as the commando leader, or is in the team. General Madine is down there as well. Remember we see Lando infiltrate Jabba's palace at the start. It is not much of a stretch to go from there to another commando mission. General Madine, of course, is the Rebel's SpecOps commander IIRC.

This is the one suggestion that made any sense to me. Obviously Lando must have been doing something right in order to earn the trust of Jabba and his henchmen. And, IIRC, Madine had a larger role in some of the earlier drafts.

Stofsk wrote:So Han of course flies the Falcon - AS IT SHOULD BE. This is one of my pet peeves with ROTJ: Han comes off as weak in it, whereas in the last two films he was a strong character in the last, he seemed almost emasculated. He needs to be behind the joystick of the Falcon, or he's nothing.

I don't agree that Han comes off weak, and I think that Han trusting Lando with the Falcon was important so that the audience really could accept Lando fully again. But, not showing Han flying the Falcon AT ALL was a big mistake.

Stofsk wrote:Wookiees instead of Ewoks? I didn't mind the Ewoks, but I would have LOVED to have seen them as a non primitive society that used blasters instead of bows and arrows. Added spice would have thrown Leia in there as a clandestine diplomacy mission to enlist the Ewoks as soldiers against the Empire, who were building a battlestation in orbit of their world. Or better yet, they were already onboard and she was going in to deliver arms and equipment, when she get's captured by the imperials...

I'm pretty sure you're aware of the thematic device GL was running with here? That a primitive society is able to conquer a more advanced technological one. I like the idea behind the Ewoks, and I have nothing at all against them.

Stofsk wrote:Leia is taken hostage by the Empire, but I want to do this because a) she's a diplomat, so why is she going on a commando mission? and b) because it gets her, Luke, Vader/Anakin and the Emperor into one big room with each other. Can you say "family reunion"? I can. Perhaps Luke finds out that she's her sister in the climax of the film? Along with Vader/Anakin and Leia herself, with Palpatine cackling like the greatest joke ever told passed in front of him. Added point of drama: Han has to make the final run into the DS2's main reactor, knowing full well that the woman he loves and the kid who saved him from being a wall ornament are inside. Tough decisions.

I can't say I like this idea. However, I think the ending of ROTJ should have been somewhat darker. Perhaps Luke should have turned to the Dark Side after having struck Vader down, but that Anakin somehow was able to prevent Luke from venturing further down that road? Oh, and I can't say I think Lucas made the right choice by bringing in another Death Star, but it is his story, and we all have to buy it or not.

Mange the Swede wrote:Umm, is this turning into a fanboy forum ?

Don't spam needlessly.

Particpate or comment but asking is this turning into a Fanboy forum is no different then just going Post Count +1.

Oh, and I can't say I think Lucas made the right choice by bringing in another Death Star

Lucas said he always wanted a DS at the end of the story, but because of the uncertainty of the success of the first film, he just had to add it then and there to make that one film feel complete.

But, hey, how many villains are smart enough to reuse a concept that actually works, only with the bugs worked out?

VT-16 wrote:

Oh, and I can't say I think Lucas made the right choice by bringing in another Death Star

Lucas said he always wanted a DS at the end of the story, but because of the uncertainty of the success of the first film, he just had to add it then and there to make that one film feel complete.

But, hey, how many villains are smart enough to reuse a concept that actually works, only with the bugs worked out?

Yes, I'm aware of that, but it made ROTJ look like ANH all over again, something Kershner was glad TESB didn't.

Stofsk wrote:Perhaps Luke finds out that she's her sister in the climax

Intriguing...

but it made ROTJ look like ANH all over again

Yeah, would have been nice with a different kind of battle, but still, fleet action is fleet action.

Perhaps Luke finds out that she's her sister in the climax


Intriguing...

*Dirty thoughts*

Instead of an attack on a Second Death Star, it should have been a Rebel invasion of Imperial Centre, along with a Commando mission to capture the Palace.

The analog - in retrospect with the coming Battle of Coruscant in ROTS would've been elegant.

President Sharky wrote:Instead of an attack on a Second Death Star, it should have been a Rebel invasion of Imperial Centre, along with a Commando mission to capture the Palace.

Yeah, that would have been great, however the technical difficulties would've been to great at the time (but that would of course have been fixed later).