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Hi everyone, first post ever around here.
Humm, I was wondering about a comics book I found a while back, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which passes between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, and I got a question: can this comic be considered as canon? I don't really have a clue about it, mostly 'cause Luke cuts off Vader's right hand and murmurs/confesses to Leia that he loved her...
Truthfully, I've been wondering since I bought it, whether it can be considered as canon or not. If it can be, then I guess Luke's encounter/confrontation with Vader in TESB and ROTJ loses a bit of the impact, no?


Forgot to mention that it's "Based on the novel by Adan Dean Foster" (whichever it is )

Material that is in direct conflict with a higher canon, that cannot be resolved in any logical fashion is not considered as canon.

ie. If in some short story Luke investigates a planet of lost Sith lords and finds out about some ancient Sith. In the end conflict he cuts off Vader's head and it is not an illusion and was written before ESB. We take out that part of the story but the other parts of the story are considered viable canon.

Huh, I remember reading the original novel, and I don't recall Vader losing a hand. Of course, this was years ago.

It was published as 'The jedi crystal' here and it was horrible. Whether it starts from C (continuity) or S (secondary) canon (since it is really old), I do not know (and both belong to the sW continuity). Bits those CLEARLY contradict goes to N (non- continuity) canon. However I cannot recall such a contradiction (through I admit I read it a long time ago), and for example Grammel was a character in the game Rebellion.

I can't recallit contradicting cannon, though its the only place I've ever seen a force-hai'doken used .

Interesting tidbit, Leia can't swim.

I can't recallit contradicting cannon

Me neither, except for the fact that we see Luke use Force-powers that an untrained person shouldn't be capable of, like when Vader starts zapping him, he actually turns the lightning back against him , too bad he didn't do that in ROTJ, I guess ... Other parts of Luke using Force-powers show up as well, when Vader and Luke are dueling with their sabers, Vader throws a stone at him and he "blocks" it with another stone. Not bad for someone who had to spend several moments focusing in the begginning of TESB just to call/summon the lightsaber from the snow

Grammel was a character in the game Rebellion

Well, Vader cuts him in half in this comics, so I hope that the game Rebellion doesn't pass AFTER TESB

and I don't recall Vader losing a hand

Vader actually TRIPS on his own arm and falls in the pit... How lame can THAT be?

Dead_Ghost wrote:

I can't recallit contradicting cannon

Me neither, except for the fact that we see Luke use Force-powers that an untrained person shouldn't be capable of, like when Vader starts zapping him, he actually turns the lightning back against him , too bad he didn't do that in ROTJ, I guess

Actually he did. The film kinda shows this happening, and the novelisation confirms it: Luke learned, off the cuff, how to absorb and redirect the energy Palpatine was throwing at him. Of course, he didn't redirect it AT Palpatine, he was still not trained enough for that, and Palpy sorta did catch him by surprise. But you can see arcs of lightning redirect off of Luke and hit the walls and so on; that's Luke doing that. Palpy's attack overwhelmed him though.

[EDIT] And welcome.

I'd say it wasn't part of the continuity. It's just too far out.

I have an original copy of this book. I didn't think it was too bad, but maybe that's because it's the second SW book I ever read. It sort of reminds me of the SW earlier drafts...

Actually he did. The film kinda shows this happening, and the novelisation confirms it: Luke learned, off the cuff, how to absorb and redirect the energy Palpatine was throwing at him. Of course, he didn't redirect it AT Palpatine, he was still not trained enough for that, and Palpy sorta did catch him by surprise. But you can see arcs of lightning redirect off of Luke and hit the walls and so on; that's Luke doing that. Palpy's attack overwhelmed him though.

I actually never thought that the arcs bouncing away from him was his doing and I don't remember noticing that when I read the novel...

And welcome.

Thank you

I didn't think it was too bad

Oh, for crying out loud, Vader tripped on his own arm and fell on the pit. Seriously, how can a sithlord (never mind that this is Darth Vader we're talking about here) do something as clumsy as trip on his arm???

Only feelings of nostalgia tempt me away from excluding it entirely, then common sense gets the better of me...

Stofsk wrote:Actually he did. The film kinda shows this happening, and the novelisation confirms it: Luke learned, off the cuff, how to absorb and redirect the energy Palpatine was throwing at him. Of course, he didn't redirect it AT Palpatine, he was still not trained enough for that, and Palpy sorta did catch him by surprise. But you can see arcs of lightning redirect off of Luke and hit the walls and so on; that's Luke doing that. Palpy's attack overwhelmed him though.

Please quote the novelization because the translated novelization does not confirm it.
In the translated novelization he was surprised to see (and feel ) that the force can create lighting, but it was evident for him that if the force generated it, the force could defend him against it as well, and it fits quite well to the earlier SotME where he did something similar (against a force globe if I remember well) 'accidentaly'.

Dead_Ghost wrote:Well, Vader cuts him in half in this comics, so I hope that the game Rebellion doesn't pass AFTER TESB.

It starts directly after the Battle of Yavin. Well, maybe a few days later ... And it is completely open ended, so what happens in the game is irrelevant.

vakundok wrote:

Stofsk wrote:Actually he did. The film kinda shows this happening, and the novelisation confirms it: Luke learned, off the cuff, how to absorb and redirect the energy Palpatine was throwing at him. Of course, he didn't redirect it AT Palpatine, he was still not trained enough for that, and Palpy sorta did catch him by surprise. But you can see arcs of lightning redirect off of Luke and hit the walls and so on; that's Luke doing that. Palpy's attack overwhelmed him though.

Please quote the novelization because the translated novelization does not confirm it.
In the translated novelization he was surprised to see (and feel ) that the force can create lighting, but it was evident for him that if the force generated it, the force could defend him against it as well, and it fits quite well to the earlier SotME where he did something similar (against a force globe if I remember well) 'accidentaly'.

Source: ROTJ novelization p.160 wrote:But if it was force-generated, it could be Force repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful- the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they course over and into him...

Furthermore, if you look at ROTJ you can SEE stray bolts of lightning bounce off Luke and hit the walls. It's not enough and he doesn't get anywhere near the majority of the bolts Palpy was zapping him with, but he was learning. He was just overwhelmed by it.

[EDIT] ROTJ has the events transpire slightly differently, of course. While in the novel, it shows us Luke almost calmly raising his arms to deflect the bolts, in the movie he's already writhing on the floor. And we can't see him raise his arms to deflect the bolts, because something is in the way obstructing a clear angle. But there are bolts going off of him and hitting something else, IIRC.

If you need screencaps of it, then I might do them for you. But the novel says as much anyway. And thanks must go to Vympel for compiling these points on the ROTJ novelisation for analysis.

Stofsk wrote:

vakundok wrote:

Stofsk wrote:Actually he did. The film kinda shows this happening, and the novelisation confirms it: Luke learned, off the cuff, how to absorb and redirect the energy Palpatine was throwing at him. Of course, he didn't redirect it AT Palpatine, he was still not trained enough for that, and Palpy sorta did catch him by surprise. But you can see arcs of lightning redirect off of Luke and hit the walls and so on; that's Luke doing that. Palpy's attack overwhelmed him though.

Please quote the novelization because the translated novelization does not confirm it.
In the translated novelization he was surprised to see (and feel ) that the force can create lighting, but it was evident for him that if the force generated it, the force could defend him against it as well, and it fits quite well to the earlier SotME where he did something similar (against a force globe if I remember well) 'accidentaly'.

Source: ROTJ novelization p.160 wrote:But if it was force-generated, it could be Force repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful- the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they course over and into him...

Please read what I have written. I did not argue about what happened. In your original post you suggested that what Luke did (deflecting force generated attacks by the force) was something new to him (this would create a contradiction with SotME) and stated that the novelization confirmed it.
I am arguing about whether that that the force generated attacks can be repelled by the force was new to Luke or not. I say no, and the quote "But if it was force-generated, it could be Force repelled." supports my opinion.

vakundok wrote:Please read what I have written. I did not argue about what happened. In your original post you suggested that what Luke did (deflecting force generated attacks by the force) was something new to him (this would create a contradiction with SotME) and stated that the novelization confirmed it.

Oh, THAT.

I am arguing about whether that that the force generated attacks can be repelled by the force was new to Luke or not. I say no, and the quote "But if it was force-generated, it could be Force repelled." supports my opinion.

In that case I can't answer, since I don't know. I haven't read Spinter of the Mind's Eye, so I don't know which scene you're referring to. ROTJ suggests that Luke only met with minimal success in repelling Palpatine's attack, yet the person I originally responded to said something about Luke redirecting all the energy back at the target - Vader - before he was zapped in what I just assumed was a similar attack made later on by Palpatine.

Can you explain what happens in SotME for me, as I do not have it?

Stofsk wrote:

I am arguing about whether that that the force generated attacks can be repelled by the force was new to Luke or not. I say no, and the quote "But if it was force-generated, it could be Force repelled." supports my opinion.

In that case I can't answer, since I don't know. I haven't read Spinter of the Mind's Eye, so I don't know which scene you're referring to. ROTJ suggests that Luke only met with minimal success in repelling Palpatine's attack, yet the person I originally responded to said something about Luke redirecting all the energy back at the target - Vader - before he was zapped in what I just assumed was a similar attack made later on by Palpatine.

Can you explain what happens in SotME for me, as I do not have it?

I do not have it with me too, not to mention that I last read it years ago ... What I remember is that (in a temple where a force amplifier crystal was) Vader launched some kind of (a single) force globe to Luke and Luke repelled it back to Vader (causing a nasty surprise). If I remember well, Luke did actually nothing, the globe reached him and turned back. Luke was later unable to explain what happened ...
In RotJ he thought he could save himself from the lightings using the force and in my opinion it does not contradict with SotME.

From what I'm remembering of the confrontation in SotME Luke just so happened to be effectively possessed by Obi-wan during the duel. So maybe it was more the schooling that Obi-wan never did to Vader in the OT.

Dead_Ghost wrote: [img]http://img16.exs.cx/img16/1074/splinter ... tf.jpg[img]

Forgot to mention that it's "Based on the novel by Adan Dean Foster" (whichever it is )

I've got the novel. It was written by Alan Dean Foster in 1979, iirc. I'd have to find it to doublecheck. I was wondering why your copy had a different cover.

Apparently that book was based off of a storyline for a low-budget sequel to Star Wars that Lucas had planned to do if the original film wasn't successful enough to warrant something like ESB. It doesn't include Han Solo because Lucas wasn't sure if he could get Harrison Ford to come back.

Of course, things turned out quite a bit differently.

I've read the german novel editon.

It's total crap. It was a total waste of 10€.

It made The Essential Chronology source material.

I was wondering why your copy had a different cover.

Mine's from the Edition released in December 1996.

Can you explain what happens in SotME for me, as I do not have it?

What I remember is that (in a temple where a force amplifier crystal was) Vader launched some kind of (a single) force globe to Luke and Luke repelled it back to Vader (causing a nasty surprise). If I remember well, Luke did actually nothing, the globe reached him and turned back. Luke was later unable to explain what happened ...

Yeah, they're in a temple with (quite a big) force crystal, and Luke keeps getting counsels/orders from Obi-Wan.

I couldnt find it mentioned in this thread, and I know its a week old but I have to ask. Didn't Luke use a piece of the Kaiburr crystal in a lightsaber he constructed? I thought this was mentioned in an EU novel somewhere.

Galvatron wrote:Only feelings of nostalgia tempt me away from excluding it entirely, then common sense gets the better of me...

One gets better nostalgia from the Han Solo novels (or even the Lando Calrissian novels).

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Galvatron wrote:Only feelings of nostalgia tempt me away from excluding it entirely, then common sense gets the better of me...

One gets better nostalgia from the Han Solo novels (or even the Lando Calrissian novels).

Vuffi Raa lives!

Seriously, too bad but Splinter of the Mind's Eye is too outside canon to work. I liked the setting, though.

I was under the impression at one time that it was all part of the masterful George Lucas "misinformation" machine to deflect people from rumors about ESB.