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"No. Leave them to me, I will deal with them myself..."
-Lord Vader-

I never really understood this decision from Vader. Why did he even allow the shuttle Tydirium to reach Endor in the first place? Why not take Piett up on his offer; "Shall I hold them?" It doesn't make sense. If Vader had detained the Tydirium right then and there, the entire ground battle on Endor would have never taken place. He'd have Luke, Han, Leia and the others aboard the Executor and the Rebel Fleet would still be walking into the Emperor's trap.

Am I missing something? Is there a logical reason for Vader not to detain the Rebel Strike Team?

I'm not sure but I think he was under orders from Palpatine not to interfere. He didn't want to tip off the Rebels too early.

I'm just talking off the top of my head but it's a possibility, however slim.

JediMaster415 wrote:I'm not sure but I think he was under orders from Palpatine not to interfere. He didn't want to tip off the Rebels too early.

I'm just talking off the top of my head but it's a possibility, however slim.

I thought of that, but the Rebel Fleet had no way of knowing if the Strike Team's mission would succeed or fail. They undoubtledly were running comm-silent with the Rebellion and were entirely on their own. If they were destroyed or detained, the Rebel Fleet would have no way of knowing.

The Original Nex wrote:

JediMaster415 wrote:I'm not sure but I think he was under orders from Palpatine not to interfere. He didn't want to tip off the Rebels too early.

I'm just talking off the top of my head but it's a possibility, however slim.

I thought of that, but the Rebel Fleet had no way of knowing if the Strike Team's mission would succeed or fail. They undoubtledly were running comm-silent with the Rebellion and were entirely on their own. If they were destroyed or detained, the Rebel Fleet would have no way of knowing.

Remember in Palpatine's overblown scheme Luke had to basically watch everything fail. Thus he needed to keep the illusion up that they were still incognito until he could destroy the fleet and his friends.

Ghost Rider wrote: Remember in Palpatine's overblown scheme Luke had to basically watch everything fail. Thus he needed to keep the illusion up that they were still incognito until he could destroy the fleet and his friends.

Wouldn't the fact that his presence got the Rebels captured constitute as a failure of his own, perhaps throwing him into dispair? As a matter of fact, had they been captured by the Executor, and if he was able to see Han and Leia being tortured (something that is proven to lead him into rash action, i.e ESB), would that not drive him to darkness even quicker than simply hearing Palpatine say that they had failed?

The Original Nex wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote: Remember in Palpatine's overblown scheme Luke had to basically watch everything fail. Thus he needed to keep the illusion up that they were still incognito until he could destroy the fleet and his friends.

Wouldn't the fact that his presence got the Rebels captured constitute as a failure of his own, perhaps throwing him into dispair? As a matter of fact, had they been captured by the Executor, and if he was able to see Han and Leia being tortured (something that is proven to lead him into rash action, i.e ESB), would that not drive him to darkness even quicker than simply hearing Palpatine say that they had failed?

Remember he actually and both of them really wanted Luke to join him willingly and come to him of his free will.

This was apparently a huge part of their paln thus letting them through perfectly fits the mold when you think that Luke being captured isn't exactly free will of anything.

Ghost Rider wrote:Remember he actually and both of them really wanted Luke to join him willingly and come to him of his free will.

This was apparently a huge part of their paln thus letting them through perfectly fits the mold when you think that Luke being captured isn't exactly free will of anything.

Hmmm, I suppose....It does seem like the Emperor was keen on the idea of Luke coming to Vader; "Patience my friend, in time, he will seek you out, and when he does, you will bring him before me..."

Still though, it seems Palpy and Vader took the whole "your friends have failed" plot to the extreme. Why not move in and take out the Rebels after Luke has been taken away by Vader? The Imperials must have known where the Tydirium landed, they undoubtedly tracked it as it came down. The Imperials must know where the Ewok villiage is (given proper scanning and the fact that they had extensive scouting networks), they should have assumed that that was a possible place for the Rebels to seek refuge. They should have simply subjugated the Ewoks when they first garrisoned off Endor.

The only reason for them not to do this, it seems, is for the Imperial Commander at the Garrison to have explicit orders to not impede the Rebels until the ultimate attack on the DSII, an order which could have only come from "the Emperor himself."

Maybe Vader and the Emperor were working off of force visions, trying to make a particular future come about. The strike team had to land for the Rebels to jump into the trap, and Luke had to see his friends die to lose it bad enough to turn to the darkside.

Or maybe Vader and the Emperor were just a couple of knuckleheads.

It should be noted that had not Vader queried Piett about that shuttle, it would have been cleared by the High Admiral and the strike team would have landed on Endor unmolested.

anyone else think the unknown variable of ewoks would have, in a sensible universe, been nerve gassed?

Enforcer Talen wrote:anyone else think the unknown variable of ewoks would have, in a sensible universe, been nerve gassed?

Perhaps the Stormies didn't have nerve gas handy?

However, what about the Rebel Commandos? Shouldn't they have been in some kind of NBC protective or armoured gear at least?

The Original Nex wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:Remember he actually and both of them really wanted Luke to join him willingly and come to him of his free will.

This was apparently a huge part of their paln thus letting them through perfectly fits the mold when you think that Luke being captured isn't exactly free will of anything.

Hmmm, I suppose....It does seem like the Emperor was keen on the idea of Luke coming to Vader; "Patience my friend, in time, he will seek you out, and when he does, you will bring him before me..."

And the 'he will seek you out' is very different from 'you capture him', so it would crush the emperor's plan for Luke (but not his plan for the battle).

Still though, it seems Palpy and Vader took the whole "your friends have failed" plot to the extreme. Why not move in and take out the Rebels after Luke has been taken away by Vader?

screenplay wrote:VADER: Good work, Commander. Leave us. Conduct your search and bring his companions to me.

They tried. Since I still cannot buy that trees could stop an AT-AT with variable firepower and (at least virtually) unlimited ammunition, it is a reason why we have not seen those in the battle.

The Imperials must have known where the Tydirium landed, they undoubtedly tracked it as it came down.

Yes, but from that point tracking a moving (elit) commando team is quite different.

The Imperials must know where the Ewok villiage is (given proper scanning and the fact that they had extensive scouting networks), they should have assumed that that was a possible place for the Rebels to seek refuge. They should have simply subjugated the Ewoks when they first garrisoned off Endor.

I think you overestimate the scouts. Do not forget that the imperial forces with many scouts were definitely surprised by masses of ewoks from a couple dozens of meters. (Not to mention the six stormtroopers wo went even closer to capture the droids.)

The only reason for them not to do this, it seems, is for the Imperial Commander at the Garrison to have explicit orders to not impede the Rebels until the ultimate attack on the DSII, an order which could have only come from "the Emperor himself."

Likely yes. The novelization mentions that they were told that the ewoks were peacefull, also it mentions that stormtroopers were hiding within the bunker, so they possibly wanted to capture the team at the only sure point: at (in and around) the bunker.

In the movies, Palpatine did not first believe Vader, when he told his master that Luke was with the strike team, in novelization, it was made clear that Vader had greater plans behind his mask. He wanted Palpy out of the way and Luke by his side....perhaps there is the reason why he let the Tydirium land on Endor so easily....perhaps they would have captured the shuttle if Luke had not been aboard. Now Vader had the chance to change the leadership of the galaxy once and for all.

After all, it was all Vader's plan to take over the galaxy with his son, or, it was that small splinter in his mind, that was left of Anakin Skywalker, that made him do what he did...

No one just could not expect that ewoks would interfere...

I don't even know why this question is being asked. Luke answers it in ROTJ: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."

Enforcer Talen wrote:anyone else think the unknown variable of ewoks would have, in a sensible universe, been nerve gassed?

Not really- why would you nerve gas a bunch of harmless non-belligerents? Hindsight is 20/20.

There's also the matter that they don't know if the Rebels can tip off the Rebel fleet or not by capturing them early.

You have to view it in the context of the Imperials, they had a hidden fleet, a shield that could probably withstand every Rebel ship ever made tossed at it at once, and a partly operational Death Star (how many knew that is in question). To Vader and Palps there was nothing that could possibly go wrong from a pure military standpoint, the emperor had his legion to deal with them landing too. It was a "everything is proceeding as I have forseen" situation with maybe minor adjustments. It was at their leisure to toy and use Luke without any worries about his friends or fleet.

Stofsk wrote:It should be noted that had not Vader queried Piett about that shuttle, it would have been cleared by the High Admiral and the strike team would have landed on Endor unmolested.

Vader must have sensed something strange about the shuttle in the first place to even bother inquiring about it. Unless, of course, Vader checked up on every singe supply shuttle entering the system

vakundok wrote: And the 'he will seek you out' is very different from 'you capture him', so it would crush the emperor's plan for Luke (but not his plan for the battle).

Well, it all depends on how you interpret "seek out" It oculd mean subconciously being drawn to Vader, or actively looking for him. In the end, it turned out to be the latter, but, it could be taken either way.

vakundok wrote:

screenplay wrote:VADER: Good work, Commander. Leave us. Conduct your search and bring his companions to me.

They tried. Since I still cannot buy that trees could stop an AT-AT with variable firepower and (at least virtually) unlimited ammunition, it is a reason why we have not seen those in the battle.

IMHO, the Imperial General in charge of the garrison was privy to the basics of Palpatine's plan as Piett was. Whoever had full command of the garrison was most likely ordered to not impede the Rebels until the final attack was made, but his underlings, like the scout troopers, the AT-AT commander etc. would not be aware of any of the plan. No doubt if the Emperor wanted the Rebels caught on Endor, they would have been whenever the Imperials decided to.

As to the AT-AT not being present at the battle, it's a simple matter that an AT-AT walker was not deemed a necessity by the Imperial Garrison commander to capture a dozen Rebel Commandos. And therefore, was elsewhere with the rest of the Garrison's forces.

vakundok wrote:I think you overestimate the scouts. Do not forget that the imperial forces with many scouts were definitely surprised by masses of ewoks from a couple dozens of meters. (Not to mention the six stormtroopers wo went even closer to capture the droids.)[/qoute]

My point was that Imperials surely knew exactly where the Ewok villiage was.

Aki-Wan Hanabi wrote: In the movies, Palpatine did not first believe Vader, when he told his master that Luke was with the strike team, in novelization, it was made clear that Vader had greater plans behind his mask. He wanted Palpy out of the way and Luke by his side....perhaps there is the reason why he let the Tydirium land on Endor so easily....perhaps they would have captured the shuttle if Luke had not been aboard. Now Vader had the chance to change the leadership of the galaxy once and for all.

How does letting them land help him get Luke by his side?

Aki-Wan Hanabi wrote:After all, it was all Vader's plan to take over the galaxy with his son, or, it was that small splinter in his mind, that was left of Anakin Skywalker, that made him do what he did...

I realize that, but again, how does allowing the Tydirium to land put his plans of galactic domination into action?

SPOOFE wrote:I don't even know why this question is being asked. Luke answers it in ROTJ: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."

Which was directed at Palpatine, not Vader....

I suppose I'm willing to concede that this is just another example of Imperial overconfidence....just wondered if there might actually be a real reason other than that...

The moment the Executor tries to tractor the shuttle in, Han sends a signal to the rebel fleet that their cover is blown.

Darth Servo wrote:The moment the Executor tries to tractor the shuttle in, Han sends a signal to the rebel fleet that their cover is blown.

Why not jam their transmissions before getting a tractor lock?

Also, the Empire could trace the signal back to the Rebel Fleet's location anyways...

The Original Nex wrote:Why not jam their transmissions before getting a tractor lock?

Would still look suspicious. Maybe the landing party had to check in at appointed times? I don't know.

Maybe the landing party had their own probe droid to be launched in case of the operation failing? Its kind of stupid to assume they had no way of warning the fleet in the event they didn't make it to Endor.

Also, the Empire could trace the signal back to the Rebel Fleet's location anyways...

1) Only if the signal is sent directly to the fleet. The destination of a omnidirectional signal is impossible to determine.
remember in TPM, Obi-wan warned the queen to NOT respond to the emergency message from Naboo? They could trace the signal to it source, not its destination.

2) The Imperials already knew where the rebel fleet was.

Vader: what of the report of the Rebel fleet massing near Sullust?