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This was a great book. It was the first time I read a book and first person and I really loved it

I hate Corran Horn. I tried reading that book but all of his "I'm Luke also" started to irritate me. I never did like any of Stackpole's books because there was too much Rouge Squadron=the shit. Even prior to all of the ICIS and such, I still found it difficult to believe that a squadron of X-wings could take on a capital ship and walk away. There was just too much wankery in his books, imo.

I liked it to waaaaay better than the Jedi Academy Trilogy. I don't remember any "I'm Luke also" stuff, but I haven't read it in like a couple years. I didn't mind the wankery sure I'll admit there was quite a bit, but alot of it can be explained away by offscreen action or Stackpole tried to rationalize though not very successfully I'll admit. However, I, Jedi didn't really have any wankery. Also, if you read it like you would watch an action movie(suspend your disbelief that a small elite force can't possibly cut through a feared military force hundreds of times their strength with nothing worse than a flesh wound) then its bearable. Also, Stackpole has to be given props for writing SW books that don't focus on the main characters and showing people actually dying in a war, which few other SW books have done.

I agree NRS

have any of you read Isards Revenge? clearly Rogue Squadron is not 1337, two of em were whacked, asyr practically died and wes janson nearly did as well. or how about the first book where lujayne was shot without even fighting back and the some got major flesh wounds.

corran horn is just a favorite character of stackpole, and if you think any other authors dont have 'favorites' in SW then youre wrong. Allston loves piggy like hes his child, janson too for that matter.

corrans problem is that HE specifically hardly ever loses, hes a bit of a mary sue, or rather a Lary Due.

Cabwi Desco wrote:have any of you read Isards Revenge? clearly Rogue Squadron is not 1337, two of em were whacked, asyr practically died and wes janson nearly did as well. or how about the first book where lujayne was shot without even fighting back and the some got major flesh wounds.

corran horn is just a favorite character of stackpole, and if you think any other authors dont have 'favorites' in SW then youre wrong. Allston loves piggy like hes his child, janson too for that matter.

corrans problem is that HE specifically hardly ever loses, hes a bit of a mary sue, or rather a Lary Due.

When was the last time that Stackpole whacked a Rogue Squadron character he'd given more than a paragraph of background and screen-time too? Hint: there's only one of them. Every other time, there's either been a miraculous escape/return from the dead, or its been 'This is corporal <Random Republic Species>'. He doesn't like the Empire/is wanted by the empire. Oh darn, he got shot down by a random capital ship blast'. 'Nearly died' doesn't count for shit.

By comparison, the character that Allston put the least effort into developing got a heartfelt conversation with Admiral Ackbar where she explained how she had to join a group of no-hopers to do her fair share, and her death scene lasts longer than the description of every Rogue charcater's death that Stackpole has penned, combined.

In the Bacta War, the whole way that the Lusankya battle was handled made me almost vomit. Wankery at its worst.

now why is the Lusankya battle wankery?
One SSD
versus
2 Isds
1 and a half squadrons
A load of freighters

the SSD lost becuase of a number of things.
-The Captain of the SSD was mentally imbalanced thus inable to give battle sensible orders.
-The Freighters Were hooked up with as many proton torp launchers as possible and then used tychos targeting computer to fire with accuracy
-The captain of the SSD let his guard down when the Virulence arrived and started to fight with the rogues
-an SSD is a large vessel, but its mostly just a floating guns platform, all guns have blindspots where the capital ships can take on as few guns as possible
-that little alderaanian frigate in the stern? well heres my rationalization. It gets behind that big hunkof metal and gets where the stern gunners cant see her, gets nice and close and starts pummelling the stern where hardly any of the guns can target
-theyre rogue squadron, I take it you WANTED them to all die? face it, like me you cant bear to see good characters die. im willing to bet most people who hated that battle wanted something allong the lines of "and an alliance fleet element comes just in time to save their sorry asses", am I right?

I thought the Lusankya battle was a brilliant plan, but the numbers were really low.

"OMG They're gonna hit us with 300 proton torpeodes, what do we do? AaaaaaHHHHH!!!"...

An SSD should be able to survive 300 proton torps.

The whole Bacta war was a fuck up to the nth degree. Imperial Captains are trained to destroy their ships rather than surrender it to rebels, yet not only did an Imperial Captain surrender to Booster Terrik but they crewed the fucking thing into battle with him against the Lusankya. Also 6 300 Torp volleys shouldn't kill a SSD even with 2 ISD Mk2's and an obsolete War Frigate.

They were capital ship weapon rated torpedeo though if you remember the scene when Booster ordered them from Karrade.

And compared to what's neened to kill say a vic or a Interdictor 300 torps sounds about right in comparitive strength.


Throughout Stackpole's X-Wing books Rogue squad kills only one Capital Ship:

The Corruptor and that was only really only becuase they disabled it in an asteriod field.

Crazedwraith wrote:They were capital ship weapon rated torpedeo though if you remember the scene when Booster ordered them from Karrade.

Good point, it's very possible the proton torps the freighters were carrying could have had 10x or more the yield of the fighter ones.

The Corruptor and that was only really only becuase they disabled it in an asteriod field.

And it was a VSD, and they had an Alderaanian War Frigate pounding it in the rear and they had 2.5 squadrons of fighters (one squad of X-wings, one squad of Twi'lek and three Gand in bombers).

The whole Bacta war was a fuck up to the nth degree. Imperial Captains are trained to destroy their ships rather than surrender it to rebels, yet not only did an Imperial Captain surrender to Booster Terrik but they crewed the fucking thing into battle with him against the Lusankya.

Remember, these weren't all truly Imperial captains. These were the ones that had stuck with Isard. As we learned from Yonka, they were all slowly starting to realize that she was insane, but they had no way to leave without her killing them with the SSD.

Cabwi Desco wrote:now why is the Lusankya battle wankery?
One SSD
versus
2 Isds
1 and a half squadrons
A load of freighters

In ROTJ, we see an entire Rebel Fleet with more ships that took out the Executor along with at least a comparable fighter number or greater to the ones described in the Bacta War book. You expect me to believe that two ISDs, some freighters, and a few squadrons of fighters can take out the Lusyanka where as the entire Rebel Fleet which has a fire power greater than that which you named had to go all out just to knock the Executor's shields is not wankery?

I don't expect main characters to die, but I do expect to hear about the causalties that were sustained in battle so that it doesn't look like Rouge Squadron were supermen.

Cabwi Desco wrote:now why is the Lusankya battle wankery?
One SSD
versus
2 Isds
1 and a half squadrons
A load of freighters

You're forgetting an Alderaanian Frigate about the size and power of a Carrack and 3 squadrons of A-wings that arrive with the Virulence.

Also, the Imperials on the SSD were mostly ill-trained and incompetently led conscripts. And the SSD didn't have its own fighters. So a comparison to the Executor doesn't quite ring true which had all its fighters and was crewed by the Empires finest. Also since the freighters were using the fighters targetting info and were flying around among Thyferras' legitimate freighter traffic the Lusankya couldn't target and destroy them very quickly.

Cabwi Desco wrote:now why is the Lusankya battle wankery?
One SSD
versus
2 Isds
1 and a half squadrons
A load of freighters

Let me put it this way: An SSD has 100+ times the volume of an ISD, with an equivalent amount of guns and shielding.

Cabwi Desco wrote:the SSD lost becuase of a number of things.
-The Captain of the SSD was mentally imbalanced thus inable to give battle sensible orders.

What orders would he need to give? Blow out of the sky everything else that moves.

Cabwi Desco wrote:-The Freighters Were hooked up with as many proton torp launchers as possible and then used tychos targeting computer to fire with accuracy

And should've been blown out of the sky within seconds. 5,000 turbolasers, divided by 100 targets (3 proton torpedo launchers per freighter), means that each freighter would be hit with 50 turbolaser shots per volley.

Cabwi Desco wrote:-The captain of the SSD let his guard down when the Virulence arrived and started to fight with the rogues

I've read the book. Unless every single fucking rebel ship was a hulk, why stop opening up a can of whoopass?

Cabwi Desco wrote:-an SSD is a large vessel, but its mostly just a floating guns platform, all guns have blindspots where the capital ships can take on as few guns as possible

And they get that close.... how?

Cabwi Desco wrote:-that little alderaanian frigate in the stern? well heres my rationalization. It gets behind that big hunkof metal and gets where the stern gunners cant see her, gets nice and close and starts pummelling the stern where hardly any of the guns can target

And how again would she get that close?

Cabwi Desco wrote:-theyre rogue squadron, I take it you WANTED them to all die? face it, like me you cant bear to see good characters die. im willing to bet most people who hated that battle wanted something allong the lines of "and an alliance fleet element comes just in time to save their sorry asses", am I right?

Yes, I did want them all to die. Frankly they all annoy me (especially Corran Horn, the Luke Skywalker wannabe), and any time one dies they either come back from the dead, weren't killed, or had a grand total of one paragraph about them in the whole book. The writers played X-wing vs. TIE fighter too much, and and somehow got the idea that 12 X-wings could endlessly evade ISD fire and magically deal out hundreds of teratons of damage with gigaton torpedoes.

Lone_Prodigy wrote:Corran Horn, the Luke Skywalker wannabe

How was he a Luke "wannabe"? When he met Luke, Corran seemed to think Luke was doing things incompetently. The way I see Corran, he's very arrogant. And because much of the books are from his viewpoint, the reader gets the sense that Corran is correct because, from his viewpoint, he is correct. Even when he's wrong.

And every time he was wrong (which was often), I just imagined him standing there with a stupid look on his face as he tried to rebuild his mental view of reality after it had just been shattered.

Star Wars novels, tee hee.

Its amusing that Stackpole's Horn obsession is defended by pointing out OTHER horrible SW author's obsessions. Isn't it great that 98% of everything is shit?

SSDs have very poor energy systems. A SSD has significant firepower at its disposal, but can't bring enough to bear to defend itself against maybe a dozen Mon-Cal cruisers at the most. It can't fire very many of its guns and its shields are incredibly weak for its size.

And this comes straight from ROTJ.

Corran Horn can go cram himself up his Stackpole.

Lone_Prodigy wrote:

Cabwi Desco wrote:the SSD lost becuase of a number of things.
-The Captain of the SSD was mentally imbalanced thus inable to give battle sensible orders.

What orders would he need to give? Blow out of the sky everything else that moves.

Incorrect. The freighters appeared as freindly bacta freighters, vital to the economy of Thyferra. The SSD thought they were friendly.

The captain ordered them to blast all enemies out of the sky, they were ignoring the 'friendly' civilian freighters until they realized, "Woah, where did all those torpedoes come from? Ooops."

Cabwi Desco wrote:-The Freighters Were hooked up with as many proton torp launchers as possible and then used tychos targeting computer to fire with accuracy

And should've been blown out of the sky within seconds. 5,000 turbolasers, divided by 100 targets (3 proton torpedo launchers per freighter), means that each freighter would be hit with 50 turbolaser shots per volley.

Again, they didn't realize the freighters were enemies. When the SSD figured out what was going on, it DID tear the freighters, but the shields were already down.

Mad wrote:

Lone_Prodigy wrote:Corran Horn, the Luke Skywalker wannabe

How was he a Luke "wannabe"? When he met Luke, Corran seemed to think Luke was doing things incompetently. The way I see Corran, he's very arrogant. And because much of the books are from his viewpoint, the reader gets the sense that Corran is correct because, from his viewpoint, he is correct. Even when he's wrong.

And every time he was wrong (which was often), I just imagined him standing there with a stupid look on his face as he tried to rebuild his mental view of reality after it had just been shattered.

Well, not so much being a wannabe as saying that everything should be like how he says it should at the Jedi Academy (despite Luke being a Jedi Master and how he's uber-powered to rediculous levels (with hardly any training at all, surviving a whole warehouse being blown sky-high).

Alyeska wrote:SSDs have very poor energy systems. A SSD has significant firepower at its disposal, but can't bring enough to bear to defend itself against maybe a dozen Mon-Cal cruisers at the most. It can't fire very many of its guns and its shields are incredibly weak for its size.

And this comes straight from ROTJ.

......
Didn't you see in RotJ how the Imperial Fleet could've mopped the floor with the Rebels, but were ordered to only attempt to contain them?

Lone_Prodigy wrote:Didn't you see in RotJ how the Imperial Fleet could've mopped the floor with the Rebels, but were ordered to only attempt to contain them?

By the time the Executor was under fire, those orders were irrelevent. Furthermore, if the SSD had uber shields, shouldn't it have been able to withstand the attack for a long time? Unless you also believe the Emperor ordered all Imperial ships to turn off their shields...

Lone_Prodigy wrote:

Cabwi Desco wrote:now why is the Lusankya battle wankery?
One SSD
versus
2 Isds
1 and a half squadrons
A load of freighters

Let me put it this way: An SSD has 100+ times the volume of an ISD, with an equivalent amount of guns and shielding.

NO NOT TRUE not 100 times as many. the SSD has 250 heavy turbolasers, 250 turbolasers, 250 heavy ion cannons and 250 assault concusion missile launchers. A Imp Star Deuce 50 heavy turbolasers, 50 turbolasers and 50 heavy ion cannons. meaning it has 3 and a third times more firepower than the two Imp Star Deuces at the battle.

Cabwi Desco wrote:the SSD lost becuase of a number of things.
-The Captain of the SSD was mentally imbalanced thus inable to give battle sensible orders.

What orders would he need to give? Blow out of the sky everything else that moves.

how about crashing into the planet, hows that for an order, dumbass. he shouldve slagged the commercial traffic as well, forget innocent casualties.

Cabwi Desco wrote:-The Freighters Were hooked up with as many proton torp launchers as possible and then used tychos targeting computer to fire with accuracy

And should've been blown out of the sky within seconds. 5,000 turbolasers, divided by 100 targets (3 proton torpedo launchers per freighter), means that each freighter would be hit with 50 turbolaser shots per volley.

Where in the name of the Force did you get 5,000 weapons? are you high? a SSD has only 1,000 emplacements!

Cabwi Desco wrote:-The captain of the SSD let his guard down when the Virulence arrived and started to fight with the rogues

I've read the book. Unless every single fucking rebel ship was a hulk, why stop opening up a can of whoopass?

Obviously there are things wrong with that post because the x-wings were not hulks and neither were the freighters. the Freedom was bashed only on its port side (or was it starboard)

Cabwi Desco wrote:-an SSD is a large vessel, but its mostly just a floating guns platform, all guns have blindspots where the capital ships can take on as few guns as possible

And they get that close.... how?

ever heard of flank speed dumbass, plus gunners on those ships cant shoot for shit. and they thought the other ISDs were on their side.

Cabwi Desco wrote:-that little alderaanian frigate in the stern? well heres my rationalization. It gets behind that big hunkof metal and gets where the stern gunners cant see her, gets nice and close and starts pummelling the stern where hardly any of the guns can target

And how again would she get that close?

Explain how theyre going to shoot THROUGH THEIR OWN ENGINES!

Cabwi Desco wrote:-theyre rogue squadron, I take it you WANTED them to all die? face it, like me you cant bear to see good characters die. im willing to bet most people who hated that battle wanted something allong the lines of "and an alliance fleet element comes just in time to save their sorry asses", am I right?

Yes, I did want them all to die. Frankly they all annoy me (especially Corran Horn, the Luke Skywalker wannabe), and any time one dies they either come back from the dead, weren't killed, or had a grand total of one paragraph about them in the whole book. The writers played X-wing vs. TIE fighter too much, and and somehow got the idea that 12 X-wings could endlessly evade ISD fire and magically deal out hundreds of teratons of damage with gigaton torpedoes.

well obviously youre the only moron who thinks that the rogues should all die. and wait a minute.... i've seen crap rants like this before.... anyone notice how he challenges the teratons of damage and the gigaton yield of torps? hmmm Ill wait for someone to fill in the blank. but obviously this guy challenges the ICSs and has a succint problem with the power of SW vessels...

*starts sharpening his pitchfork*

Cabwi– have you ever seen the new ITW for the Original Trilogy? It quantifies Executor shielding and firepower. The 250 turbolaser idea came from WEG using the 8km figure (instead of 17.6km), and besides: ITW material ranks higher than what is essentially game statistics any day.

Cabwi Desco, Lord Prodigy's numbers concerning the volume of an SSD compared to an ISD, and the number of weapons emplacements comes from DK's ITW: SWT. Also, minor nit-pick ISD-IIs only have 20 ion cannons.