Death Squadron

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-28 04:06am

First part of "Imperial March" scene in TESB:

- 5x Imperial Star Destroyers visible
- 1x Imperial Star Destroyer coming into frame, following bridge twoer

Changes angle from following the bridge tower coming into screen to the front of the ship with patrolling TIE Fighters, and

- 2x extra Imperial Star destroyers

So I estimate at least eight ships plus the Executor in Death Squadron.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-02-28 04:11am

isn't 5+2=7, so were is 8th ISD?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-28 04:22am

What's 5 + 3?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-02-28 04:27am

Vympel wrote:What's 5 + 3?

unless your talking about the blue command tower yeah then there would at least 8 IDSs and 1 SSD (and probaly some smaller ship we don't see)

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-28 04:35am

The novelization makes specific reference to smaller ships we can't see. But yes, I'm making refernce to the original command tower we see coming into frame, which is obviously the same ship as the one we see next with two additional ISDs behind it.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-02-28 04:43am

Vympel wrote:The novelization makes specific reference to smaller ships we can't see. But yes, I'm making refernce to the original command tower we see coming into frame, which is obviously the same ship as the one we see next with two additional ISDs behind it.

no it isn't, it's the Executor (in both the SE and DVD it clear blue color compared to the "pure" gray of the ISD).

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-28 05:07am

Lord Revan wrote:no it isn't, it's the Executor (in both the SE and DVD it clear blue color compared to the "pure" gray of the ISD).

No it's not- the way the scene transitions makes it clear that that command tower is just that of a Star Destroyer. The Executor is only introduced when the shadow is cast over the regular ship- i.e. "think that's big, look at this motherfucker!"

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-02-28 05:53am

Vympel wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:no it isn't, it's the Executor (in both the SE and DVD it clear blue color compared to the "pure" gray of the ISD).
No it's not- the way the scene transitions makes it clear that that command tower is just that of a Star Destroyer. The Executor is only introduced when the shadow is cast over the regular ship- i.e. "think that's big, look at this motherfucker!"

well Saxton seem think it's the Executor as in SWTC it's called that in several locations (like his bridge tower page)

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2005-02-28 09:34am

So a squadron is less than a sector fleet?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-02-28 09:49am

Trytostaydead wrote:So a squadron is less than a sector fleet?

Depends on how stong an Executor SSD is (and an sector fleet is designed for rather different purposes then the Death Squadron).

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-02-28 04:52pm

Vympel wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:no it isn't, it's the Executor (in both the SE and DVD it clear blue color compared to the "pure" gray of the ISD).
No it's not- the way the scene transitions makes it clear that that command tower is just that of a Star Destroyer. The Executor is only introduced when the shadow is cast over the regular ship- i.e. "think that's big, look at this motherfucker!"

The scene transition doesn't determine anything. I always thought it was the Executor.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-02-28 04:57pm

I've seen some estimates (WEG) that pegs Death Squadron at 5 star destroyers. Here's a good queston. If the entire rebel fleet could take on a sector fleet worth of ISD's and win, why couldn't they lay a trap for death squadron with the fleet? Get rid of Vader and the cream of the Imperial fleet not to mention the obvious propaganda victory.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-28 05:06pm

Could the rebels honestly gather a force able to down a SSD + escorts that quickly, and at that time? Do we know how long it took to gather the fleet that attacked endor?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-02-28 05:09pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Could the rebels honestly gather a force able to down a SSD + escorts that quickly, and at that time? Do we know how long it took to gather the fleet that attacked endor?

Didn't return of the Jedi take place about 6 months to a year after ESB?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-02-28 05:11pm

Unless the Rebels knew Death Squadron was coming they had how long from detecting them to organize an ambush? An hour or two?
And that's assuming they
a) had the forces in the first place, and
b) had them to spare.
Sur, you get Vader and his select staff but that's but a pinprick to the Empire except possibly for the propaganda victory. It may simply not have been worth do give up the other projects their forces were busy with.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-28 05:13pm

Stravo wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Could the rebels honestly gather a force able to down a SSD + escorts that quickly, and at that time? Do we know how long it took to gather the fleet that attacked endor?
Didn't return of the Jedi take place about 6 months to a year after ESB?

No clue, perhaps the better question is "when did they find out about the second death star and palpy's visit", if you are wondering how fast the ENTIRE rebel fleet's reaction time is.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-28 05:14pm

Stravo wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Could the rebels honestly gather a force able to down a SSD + escorts that quickly, and at that time? Do we know how long it took to gather the fleet that attacked endor?
Didn't return of the Jedi take place about 6 months to a year after ESB?

Yep...though it's funny more or less confirmed through Shadows of the Empire.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-28 05:15pm

Batman wrote:Unless the Rebels knew Death Squadron was coming they had how long from detecting them to organize an ambush? An hour or two?
And that's assuming they
a) had the forces in the first place, and
b) had them to spare.
Sur, you get Vader and his select staff but that's but a pinprick to the Empire except possibly for the propaganda victory. It may simply not have been worth do give up the other projects their forces were busy with.

Do the Rebels even have interdiction platforms to prevent the death squadron from executing a "tactical retreat" (Run away from rebels? Not on vader's watch I think

)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-28 05:15pm

InnocentBystander wrote:
Stravo wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Could the rebels honestly gather a force able to down a SSD + escorts that quickly, and at that time? Do we know how long it took to gather the fleet that attacked endor?
Didn't return of the Jedi take place about 6 months to a year after ESB?
No clue, perhaps the better question is "when did they find out about the second death star and palpy's visit", if you are wondering how fast the ENTIRE rebel fleet's reaction time is.

In SOTE found out within a few weeks of contruction beginning. Probably took some time to confirm Palps visiting and when.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-02-28 05:23pm

In addition to the 5 Imperator-class Imperial Star Destroyers and HIMS Executor that approached and conducted the ground and interdiction operations immediately surrounding Hoth as depicted in TESB, HIMS Corruptor, an Imperator-class Mark II Imperial Star Destroyer, at least one Victory-class Mark II Imperial Star Destroyer, and "twenty battleships" possibly of the archetype identified by Dr. Saxton as "Anonymous Battleship #2" or comparable types were also included in Death Squadron, which is apparently an "unprecedentally large fleet."

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2005-02-28 05:33pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:In addition to the 5 Imperator-class Imperial Star Destroyers and HIMS Executor that approached and conducted the ground and interdiction operations immediately surrounding Hoth as depicted in TESB, HIMS Corruptor, an Imperator-class Mark II Imperial Star Destroyer, at least one Victory-class Mark II Imperial Star Destroyer, and "twenty battleships" possibly of the archetype identified by Dr. Saxton as "Anonymous Battleship #2" or comparable types were also included in Death Squadron, which is apparently an "unprecedentally large fleet."

What sources describe those ships? Were the twenty battleships are from TESB novelization? Where does the ISD II Corrupter and VSD come from?

The anthology Tales of the Bounty Hunters mentions the Executor and a half dozen ISDs. It also said that there were enough attack frigates and personnel carriers (unknown classes, personnel carriers could possibly just be shuttles and dropships) to "fill the sky." But the Tales series has been labeled Infinities and outside of continuity, right?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-02-28 06:36pm

Stravo wrote:I've seen some estimates (WEG) that pegs Death Squadron at 5 star destroyers. Here's a good queston. If the entire rebel fleet could take on a sector fleet worth of ISD's and win, why couldn't they lay a trap for death squadron with the fleet? Get rid of Vader and the cream of the Imperial fleet not to mention the obvious propaganda victory.

I come up with a chess analogy, sacrificing the Queen to get checkmate. The Rebel fleet attacks en masse just to get Death Squadron but at some point the word of just such a gathering gets out and the Empire moves in to counter decisively.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-02-28 07:04pm

Stravo wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Could the rebels honestly gather a force able to down a SSD + escorts that quickly, and at that time? Do we know how long it took to gather the fleet that attacked endor?
Didn't return of the Jedi take place about 6 months to a year after ESB?

Yes, but the Mon Cals didn't offically join the Rebellion by ESB, so the Rebels were without the Mon Cal's warships.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-02-28 07:07pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:In addition to the 5 Imperator-class Imperial Star Destroyers and HIMS Executor that approached and conducted the ground and interdiction operations immediately surrounding Hoth as depicted in TESB, HIMS Corruptor, an Imperator-class Mark II Imperial Star Destroyer, at least one Victory-class Mark II Imperial Star Destroyer, and "twenty battleships" possibly of the archetype identified by Dr. Saxton as "Anonymous Battleship #2" or comparable types were also included in Death Squadron, which is apparently an "unprecedentally large fleet."

Wasn't the Avenger, Tyrant, Stalker etc all Imperator II's? I thought Devastator-type were considered Mark I's and Avenger-types were Mark II's.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-02-28 07:09pm

What sources describe those ships? Were the twenty battleships are from TESB novelization?

Yep, as was the "unprecedentally large fleet"

The anthology Tales of the Bounty Hunters mentions the Executor and a half dozen ISDs. It also said that there were enough attack frigates and personnel carriers (unknown classes, personnel carriers could possibly just be shuttles and dropships) to "fill the sky." But the Tales series has been labeled Infinities and outside of continuity, right?

Star Wars Tales Comics are Non-canon and out of the continuity. Tales of the Bounty Hunters is still official, quasi-canon material.