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Just curious, has anyone attempted to rank all the Jedi & Sith according to how "powerful" they are?

It's been tried but as it is the force is hard/impossible to quantify, it really can't be done. Maybe if you narrow it down a bit you could do something like the most powerful in the movies/novels/comics so on. If the whole Star Wars universe is taken into account I'd say it's impossible. Feel free to try though.

-Gunhead

Luke>Anakin>Mace>Palpy>Yoda>Vader >Maul><Obi-Wan >Dooku>Qui-Gon>Random Jedi.

IMNSHO

In regard to Necronlord's chart: We haven't seen Anakin do much of anything more impressive than Vader in the movies, in fact he spends AOTC getting bitchslapped by termites and Dooku. He really shines when he slaughters a village of Tusken Raiders.

Vader on the other hand sense Luke across a planet, senses Luke before the Emperor does, force chokes people not even in the same room, deflects blaster bolts with his bare hand, detects the rebel base with a simple image, defeats the Jedi master who defeated him as Anakin and hands Luke his ass in ESB.

Now I am spoiler free for ROTS so please no "But in scene #436 of ROTS he does this."

Stravo wrote:Now I am spoiler free for ROTS so please no "But in scene #436 of ROTS he does this."

Frankly, I agree. I'm basing that off the cock-munching rantings of Lucas in the DVD commentries, who, much as I hate it, has the last word in these things.

But in scene 2 of Revenge of the Sith (After Boba Fett kills Padme) you see Anakin take on the whole 10 million strong Clone Army.

And win.

Uh... what was that about no spoilers?



P.S: Anakin taking on 10 million clones would be so frickin' AWESOME.

Alexus wrote:P.S: Anakin taking on 10 million clones would be so frickin' AWESOME.

AFAIK there isnt that many clonetroopers.

Gustav32Vasa wrote:AFAIK there isnt that many clonetroopers.

Depends how you interpret unit. It could be individual clone, or it could be army-division.

NecronLord wrote:

Gustav32Vasa wrote:AFAIK there isnt that many clonetroopers.

Depends how you interpret unit. It could be individual clone, or it could be army-division.

Riight, I heard about that. Has there been anything about this in the EU or from Lucas?

Gustav32Vasa wrote:

NecronLord wrote:

Gustav32Vasa wrote:AFAIK there isnt that many clonetroopers.

Depends how you interpret unit. It could be individual clone, or it could be army-division.

Riight, I heard about that. Has there been anything about this in the EU or from Lucas?

I think there's a book quote that reinforces the units as 1 unit = 1 trooper (Shatterpoint?) where Mace muses that they don't have enough troops to put one clone trooper on each planet of the Republic. EU minimalism rears its ugly head I guess.

NecronLord wrote:Luke>Anakin>Mace>Palpy>Yoda>Vader >Maul><Obi-Wan >Dooku>Qui-Gon>Random Jedi.

IMNSHO

You sure Mace>Palpy?

Stravo wrote:In regard to Necronlord's chart: We haven't seen Anakin do much of anything more impressive than Vader in the movies, in fact he spends AOTC getting bitchslapped by termites and Dooku. He really shines when he slaughters a village of Tusken Raiders.

Vader on the other hand sense Luke across a planet, senses Luke before the Emperor does, force chokes people not even in the same room, deflects blaster bolts with his bare hand, detects the rebel base with a simple image, defeats the Jedi master who defeated him as Anakin and hands Luke his ass in ESB.

Now I am spoiler free for ROTS so please no "But in scene #436 of ROTS he does this."

Anakin is more powerful in raw force power, Vader has much more control and skill. IMHO.
Kill wins over uncontrolled power any day. See Alexander the Great vs Persia.

Stravo wrote:I think there's a book quote that reinforces the units as 1 unit = 1 trooper (Shatterpoint?) where Mace muses that they don't have enough troops to put one clone trooper on each planet of the Republic. EU minimalism rears its ugly head I guess.

You know I get really 'angsty' with that kind of thought applied across the board, GL himself is a 'minimalist', unless people actually think that he's sat down and done a volume calculation to determine how many SD it takes to make one DS?

Praxis wrote:You sure Mace>Palpy?

That's my opinion.

My reasons are my own, for now.

Gustav32Vasa wrote:Riight, I heard about that. Has there been anything about this in the EU or from Lucas?

Writer's intent is almost certainly Unit = One guy.

NecronLord wrote:

Praxis wrote:You sure Mace>Palpy?

That's my opinion.

My reasons are my own, for now.

If you're basing your opinion on spoiler information I think you are wrong, and Palpy is indeed more powerful ...

Praxis wrote:Anakin is more powerful in raw force power, Vader has much more control and skill. IMHO.
Kill wins over uncontrolled power any day. See Alexander the Great vs Persia.

Superb crew abord the USS Constitution vs poor crew aboard the USS Iowa.

Crown wrote:

Stravo wrote:I think there's a book quote that reinforces the units as 1 unit = 1 trooper (Shatterpoint?) where Mace muses that they don't have enough troops to put one clone trooper on each planet of the Republic. EU minimalism rears its ugly head I guess.

You know I get really 'angsty' with that kind of thought applied across the board, GL himself is a 'minimalist', unless people actually think that he's sat down and done a volume calculation to determine how many SD it takes to make one DS?

He certainly believed that about 12-20 stardestroyers constituted an enormous Imperial fleet and as a kid I assumed from the way the battle was portrayed that it WAS the entirety of the fleet.

But to seriously tell me that a Republic consisting of something like a million worlds that an army of 750,000 was nothing more than an absurdity is a bit much.

Stravo wrote:

Crown wrote:You know I get really 'angsty' with that kind of thought applied across the board, GL himself is a 'minimalist', unless people actually think that he's sat down and done a volume calculation to determine how many SD it takes to make one DS?

He certainly believed that about 12-20 stardestroyers constituted an enormous Imperial fleet and as a kid I assumed from the way the battle was portrayed that it WAS the entirety of the fleet.

But to seriously tell me that a Republic consisting of something like a million worlds that an army of 750,000 was nothing more than an absurdity is a bit much.

Of course it was. But I think my point is that; it's not just EU minimalism, it's the creator himself.

And the other thing I hate about that label; is that it seems to diss 'minimalistic' EU work as bad or sub-par based solely that it is 'minimalistic', which other than a nice example of circular logic, it fails to show how some of the best stories in the EU were from 'minimalists'.

*shrug*

Shatterpoint indeed backs up the 1 unit=1 trooper line of thought.

It comes into play with regards to the fact that the Clonetroopers form the corps of the GAR, and that the rest of the Republic has to gear up in a great blasting hurry in order to get on a war footing. The CIS has nowhere near the manpower resources and industrial resources to actually hang in a real war with the Republic, but they have the edge in the ability to crank out cannon fodder off the assembly line.

Minor LoE spoiler- By the time of LoE, the clone troopers are getting scarce enough that they're in a serious force conservation mode, including taking somewhat drastic measures vis a vis mission integrity in order to save one trooper.

On the scale of Star Wars, 1.2 million units would barely form a proper training cadre for the literally billions of troops and support personnel that would be called into action in a major conflict. But if you take into account that the Clone Wars started out as a conflict taking place in a largely demilitarized setting, having the opening stages involve ridiculously small numbers of troops is reasonably plausible.

Crown wrote: And the other thing I hate about that label; is that it seems to diss 'minimalistic' EU work as bad or sub-par based solely that it is 'minimalistic', which other than a nice example of circular logic, it fails to show how some of the best stories in the EU were from 'minimalists'.

*shrug*

Don't get me wrong, to this day I feel that Zahn's Thrawn triology was the finest piece of EU fiction EVER. And many folks here gripe that it was a minimalist peice of work. Zahn revitalized Star Wars for me with that Trilogy. Unfortunately I ran into a hack named KJA and abandoned the EU ever since.

Stravo wrote:Don't get me wrong, to this day I feel that Zahn's Thrawn triology was the finest piece of EU fiction EVER. And many folks here gripe that it was a minimalist peice of work. Zahn revitalized Star Wars for me with that Trilogy. Unfortunately I ran into a hack named KJA and abandoned the EU ever since.

This is why I hardly ever respond to most of your posts, Stravo. We just end up agreeing with each other, simply because we weren't really disagreeing with each other to begin with!

+1

If the ability to kill/kick-ass is superior to raw power, then:

Palpatine outranks Mace Windu. Palpy's still around, Mace ain't.

Palpatine outranks or ties with Darth Vader; while Vader did toss him down the power shaft, Palpatine was slow-cooking Luke and did enough damage to fry Vader's circuitry (he had more or less recovered after being beat down by Luke ... but couldn't breathe and couldn't stand after Palpatine used him as a walking ground-fault-interrupt).

Anakin outranks Vader; it is theorized that the amassing of cybernetic parts greatly inhibited Vader's Force ability. On the other hand, as Martin Caidin suggested in Cyborg (the novel on which Six Million Dollar Man was based), the reduction in limbs could make the remaining midichlorian count/ratio that much greater, as Austin's cardiovascular system indirectly gained from not having to power two legs and an arm.

Obi-Wan (Ep. III) outranks Anakin (Ep. III); UNLESS Anakin chooses to fall into the lava. Lucas is awfully fond of parallels, and having Ben give Anakin the same, 'come with me!' offer that Vader gives Luke would fit right in.

Mace *IS* supposed to be very powerful... but, without spoiling, RoTS suggests that NLs ordering might be incorrect.

NecronLord wrote:Luke>Anakin>Mace>Palpy>Yoda>Vader >Maul><Obi-Wan >Dooku>Qui-Gon>Random Jedi.

IMNSHO

Hmm... are you sure?
1)Luke shouldnt be the strongest. He's an untrained brat, "style-of-no-style" Jedi who only managed to win Vader(a crippling old man) in his enraged fury. Not to mention that he couldnt even deflect Palpy's lightning. Geesh.
2)Dooku should be much higher. We're talking about Form 2 lightsaber style here man, a style that was developed just for killing other Jedi. Give the old man some credit.
3)So I propose:

Anakin>Mace>Palpatine>Yoda>Dooku>Maul>Obi-Wan>Qui-Gon>Vader>Luke

For now I put this ranking based on eps I, II, IV, V & VI. And possible ep III speculations. AND PLEASE no spoilers for those who don't wished to be spoiled.

1)Anakin. From what we've seen he's still an untrained brat, but he's good. In the original script he actually injured Dooku in the saber fight(but that was cut due to George 2hr fetish). Contrast this to Obi-wan who was fighting a losing battle from the start. So I guess at his peak he's gonna kick ass!
2)Mace. I put Mace second because he was quoted to be one of the most powerful jedi master ever. But prob less than Anakin, the "chosen one." If Anakin slices Mace in Ep III then I will be right.
3)Palpatine. He has to stand somewhere at the top. But I rank him below Mace, though I believe both are quite close.
4)Yoda. He's one of the wisest Jedi, but not necessarily most powerful. He bested Dooku in Ep II so he's at the top, but not at the highest level.
5)Dooku. Form 2 Jedi killer. Nuff said. Can win 1 on 1 against any Jedi except the most powerful or most wisest of them all.
6)Maul. He held his ground when battling Obi and Qui-Gon. Why he got slayed by Obi-wan still confuses me till today? Overconfidence and drop his guard perhaps? Plus he wields double-bladed sabers, which is fucking hard to train and use according to the tech analysis of lightsabers done some time ago.
7)Obi-Wan. I know many people think he's great, but I think he's just a plain Jedi who just so happens to be the mentor of the "chosen one". Dooku kicked his ass(and he was playing with Obi-wan), so that just tells so much about his skill. He prob wont last a minute with a serious-killing mode Dooku.
Qui-Gon. I put him below Obi-Wan, cos we know obi will eventually defeat anakin, and Vader would emerge from the ashes. (But frankly speaking why Obi-wan manages to win Anakin doesnt make sense. I hope Obi doesnt win Anakin by sheer skill/power in Ep III, if not this is gonna upset my whole ranking)
9)Vader. He's as rigid as a robot. I think a lightsaber commentary done when TPM released was quite clear that any Jedi in their Golden Age of the Old Republic would have cut him to pieces. But perhaps in Ep III we'll see Vader doing somersaults? Then I'd be wrong, but until then I stand corrected.
10)Luke. Untrained brat. He just cant hold a candle to the Jedi knights of the Old Republic. I guess why he won Vader cos Vader was getting soft, or old, or weak... haha or by luck.