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I was thinking just now...why dont the blades of the lightsabers like...slide down each other. You know what I mean? like when one opponent blocks another's slight downward salsh, why doesnt the blade just...slide down the other blade...that's sure suck, huh? Can you say handguard? Wonder why lightsabers do not have those....

Well what would you construct it of, lightsabers tend to cut through just about everything with ease.

And for god's sake don't go into the whole Cortosis crap, I am pretty sure he didn't have that stuff in mind when he created the lightsaber in the first place.

I'm not proposing anything. I only want to know why they are sticky or why they are not all slick and stuff.

I want my lightsaber to have a light hilt; vaped knuckles hurt like a mutha!

Steven Snyder wrote:Well what would you construct it of, lightsabers tend to cut through just about everything with ease.

Incorrect. On several seperate occasions in the canon, blows by lightsabres are resisted by metals.

1. The side of the reactor pit in episode one. Maul hits it repeatedly, and only raises sparks, not even making the edge glow.
2. Dooku's ship's armoured hull deflects a blow from his lightsabre, leaving a small portion glowing.
3. Darth Vader's body armour is resistant to lightsabre blows. It deflects Luke's sabre in TESB
4. Not once, but twice, the sabres of Lord Vader and his son are blocked by the railings of the Emperor's throne room. Luke later slices through these same railings with a heavy overarm strike using both hands, indicating that the railings are only good against glancing blows.

"Lightsabres go through anything" is an EU mistake and a no limits fallacy.

Lightsabres do indeed stick. This can be seen in several of the extended parries, especially in the ANH Obi-Wan - Vader fight.

NecronLord wrote:

Steven Snyder wrote:Well what would you construct it of, lightsabers tend to cut through just about everything with ease.

Incorrect. On several seperate occasions in the canon, blows by lightsabres are resisted by metals.

• The side of the reactor pit in episode one. Maul hits it repeatedly, and only raises sparks, not even making the edge glow.

From memory, wasn't he hitting the red shield

NecronLord wrote:

• Dooku's ship's armoured hull deflects a blow from his lightsabre, leaving a small portion glowing.
• Darth Vader's body armour is resistant to lightsabre blows. It deflects Luke's sabre in TESB
• Not once, but twice, the sabres of Lord Vader and his son are blocked by the railings of the Emperor's throne room. Luke later slices through these same railings with a heavy overarm strike using both hands, indicating that the railings are only good against glancing blows.

I think that last part applies to all of those examples; glancing blows.

NecronLord wrote:"Lightsabres go through anything" is an EU mistake and a no limits fallacy.

Well two things;

• Mandolirian armour can stop lightsabres (comics, sith wars or somesuch)
• TPM showed us how extremely fucking powerful lightsabres can cut through blast doors.

The EU hasn't applied a 'no limits' fallacy in relation to the movies, it has pretty much stayed true to them.

Crown wrote:From memory, wasn't he hitting the red shield

No. I mean later. When Obi-Wan is hanging from the nozzle, Maul bashes the lightsabre against the edge above Obi-Wan, raising showers of sparks, but doing little else.

I think that last part applies to all of those examples; glancing blows.

Certainly not the first one, and probably not with Dooku hitting his ship.

Well two things;

• Mandolirian armour can stop lightsabres (comics, sith wars or somesuch)
• TPM showed us how extremely fucking powerful lightsabres can cut through blast doors.

The EU hasn't applied a 'no limits' fallacy in relation to the movies, it has pretty much stayed true to them.

The thing about the blast door incident, is that some or all of that might be through use of the force. Certainly Qui-gon's survival is. As for Mandalorian armour, I'm not so certain it's that great, otherwise why don't stormtroopers have that stuff?

My problem with the blast door being purely done by the lightsabre is, what happens when someone walks up with a baster rifle using a lightsabre grade power cell?

NecronLord wrote:No. I mean later. When Obi-Wan is hanging from the nozzle, Maul bashes the lightsabre against the edge above Obi-Wan, raising showers of sparks, but doing little else.

Ahhh, .... huh. Well was he actually trying to cut, or just create the sparks? That's the impression I got.

Certainly not the first one, and probably not with Dooku hitting his ship.

I can't remember it properly enought to argue over it, but see below.

The thing about the blast door incident, is that some or all of that might be through use of the force. Certainly Qui-gon's survival is. As for Mandalorian armour, I'm not so certain it's that great, otherwise why don't stormtroopers have that stuff?

Sorry I should have said Mandalorian 'Iron', and it is apparently rare and expensive. And I'm also gonna say it's pretty safe to assume that the lightsabre was the thing melting and cutting through the blast door and not Qui-Gon melting it with the Force.

Look with all the examples that I can think off in the EU, it wasn't a case of rest the lightsabre agains object A and watch as in cuts through it like a blow torch through butter, there was always an element of force* involved, some effort. Even Qui-Gon and to push the lightsabre through the other end with a strain.





*Force as in 'force' as in mass times acceleration, and not as in Force as mystic energy field created by all living things.

Crown wrote: Ahhh, .... huh. Well was he actually trying to cut, or just create the sparks? That's the impression I got.

I think he was trying to create sparks, but the sabre still bounces off the floor. Basically because the prop is a stick, and changing the scene to show an all cutting lightsabre would be a waste of effects money.

I can't remember it properly enought to argue over it, but see below.

Yoda was standing there, Dooku goes for him with the sabre, yoda jumps aside, and the sabre hits the ship, melting some of the hull.

Sorry I should have said Mandalorian 'Iron', and it is apparently rare and expensive. And I'm also gonna say it's pretty safe to assume that the lightsabre was the thing melting and cutting through the blast door and not Qui-Gon melting it with the Force.

Yeah. The thing is, if the Mandalores could afford to equip an entire army with Mandalorian Iron, why couldn't the empire?

Look with all the examples that I can think off in the EU, it wasn't a case of rest the lightsabre agains object A and watch as in cuts through it like a blow torch through butter, there was always an element of force* involved, some effort. Even Qui-Gon and to push the lightsabre through the other end with a strain.

*Force as in 'force' as in mass times acceleration, and not as in Force as mystic energy field created by all living things.

I agree. However, some people seem to have the impression that a lightsabre just vapourises whatever it touches, regardless of energy requirements. And this pisses me off.

NecronLord wrote:My problem with the blast door being purely done by the lightsabre is, what happens when someone walks up with a baster rifle using a lightsabre grade power cell?

P = J/s

EDIT :: I'll elaborate so I don't look like a prick.

It took time for the blast door to start melting, it didn't happen instantaneously, and we already know that blasters can do similar things (ANH).

Quite so. Again, it's an attack on "lightsabres don't need power, they just vapourise everything with no exceptions."

One of my pet rants that.

NecronLord wrote:I think he was trying to create sparks, but the sabre still bounces off the floor. Basically because the prop is a stick, and changing the scene to show an all cutting lightsabre would be a waste of effects money.

I don't remember it 'bouncing' *

NecronLord wrote:Yoda was standing there, Dooku goes for him with the sabre, yoda jumps aside, and the sabre hits the ship, melting some of the hull.

Hmm, it goes with the 'takes force' thing.

NecronLord wrote:Yeah. The thing is, if the Mandalores could afford to equip an entire army with Mandalorian Iron, why couldn't the empire?

No idea. Does it matter to the point of discussion?

NecronLord wrote:I agree. However, some people seem to have the impression that a lightsabre just vapourises whatever it touches, regardless of energy requirements. And this pisses me off.

Good. Those people are morons who are applying a no limits fallacy, and it should piss you off. But I don't think you can go so far as accusing all of the EU as being the source of this falacy, as the things depicted in the EU (in regards to lightsabres) are supported by canon observation.



*The; emoticons are there because I find it funny that I'm arguing from memory and it is probably fustrating you, at the same time I'm not trying to be a prick over it.

NecronLord wrote:Quite so. Again, it's an attack on "lightsabres don't need power, they just vapourise everything with no exceptions."

One of my pet rants that.

Which is fine, and I agree with you ... but just not with the context of this thread. We are talking about hand guards on lightsabres here, how thick can they be? Out of what material can the be made of?

Because no matter what, TPM showed that at best they'll stop a glancing blow, but they aren't gonna stop a slash. Which is moot anyway since lightsabres are sticky! *



*God this is ridiculous we agree on everything.

Crown wrote: I don't remember it 'bouncing' *

*Hatches plot to kidnap Crown and make him watch TPM over and over again to Beethoven music until he gives in*

Good. Those people are morons who are applying a no limits fallacy, and it should piss you off. But I don't think you can go so far as accusing all of the EU as being the source of this falacy, as the things depicted in the EU (in regards to lightsabres) are supported by canon observation.

I'm fairly sure one or two EU novels did come out with this particular idiocy, not all of them by a long shot. Humm. It might have been Darksabre *shudders*.

*bangs fists on table*

Crown wrote: Because no matter what, TPM showed that at best they'll stop a glancing blow, but they aren't gonna stop a slash.

Yeah. You could maybe design a guard to deflect a blow slightly, but I'd not be very confident in it.

And we agree because we're right. And generally superior beings.

Chardok wrote:I was thinking just now...why dont the blades of the lightsabers like...slide down each other. You know what I mean? like when one opponent blocks another's slight downward salsh, why doesnt the blade just...slide down the other blade...that's sure suck, huh? Can you say handguard? Wonder why lightsabers do not have those....

I don't know how applicable it is but having practiced fencing for a few years I can say that swords, being made of generally very smooth metal, have a hard time sliding along each other in a proper block-parry. It has to do with the angle you'e applying pressure at. If you shift the angle you can slide along the blade but you open yourself up to as much hazard as you threaten the opponent with quite often, and lightsabres lack the ability to grasp the blade with the off-hand. So sliding along the blade is probably just too dangerous a maneuvar.

Then again I could be completely off and there is some in-universe reason that the blades seem to 'stick'.

NecronLord wrote: Yeah. You could maybe design a guard to deflect a blow slightly, but I'd not be very confident in it.

And secondly I sure wouldn't want be the the person whose hands/ams/body are splattered by the melted fragments of the guard when it is struck.

NecronLord wrote:

Crown wrote: Ahhh, .... huh. Well was he actually trying to cut, or just create the sparks? That's the impression I got.

I think he was trying to create sparks, but the sabre still bounces off the floor. Basically because the prop is a stick, and changing the scene to show an all cutting lightsabre would be a waste of effects money.

I can't remember it properly enought to argue over it, but see below.

Yoda was standing there, Dooku goes for him with the sabre, yoda jumps aside, and the sabre hits the ship, melting some of the hull.

Sorry I should have said Mandalorian 'Iron', and it is apparently rare and expensive. And I'm also gonna say it's pretty safe to assume that the lightsabre was the thing melting and cutting through the blast door and not Qui-Gon melting it with the Force.

Yeah. The thing is, if the Mandalores could afford to equip an entire army with Mandalorian Iron, why couldn't the empire?

Look with all the examples that I can think off in the EU, it wasn't a case of rest the lightsabre agains object A and watch as in cuts through it like a blow torch through butter, there was always an element of force* involved, some effort. Even Qui-Gon and to push the lightsabre through the other end with a strain.

*Force as in 'force' as in mass times acceleration, and not as in Force as mystic energy field created by all living things.

I agree. However, some people seem to have the impression that a lightsabre just vapourises whatever it touches, regardless of energy requirements. And this pisses me off.

That brings up a mindboggling question that I MUST ASK!

Have we actually SEEN a stormie cut down by a lightsaber in the movies?

Oh and don't forget all the cortosis-weave blades that were floating around back in the day (KOTOR), those could resist a lightsaber just fine

from what I've seen, its pretty hard to slide a lightsabre blade along another, implying some 'stickiness' and also reducing the need for a handguard. saber blades definitely seem to grab, at least when forcing them against each other.

Star-Blighter wrote:

NecronLord wrote:

Crown wrote: Ahhh, .... huh. Well was he actually trying to cut, or just create the sparks? That's the impression I got.

I think he was trying to create sparks, but the sabre still bounces off the floor. Basically because the prop is a stick, and changing the scene to show an all cutting lightsabre would be a waste of effects money.

I can't remember it properly enought to argue over it, but see below.

Yoda was standing there, Dooku goes for him with the sabre, yoda jumps aside, and the sabre hits the ship, melting some of the hull.

Sorry I should have said Mandalorian 'Iron', and it is apparently rare and expensive. And I'm also gonna say it's pretty safe to assume that the lightsabre was the thing melting and cutting through the blast door and not Qui-Gon melting it with the Force.

Yeah. The thing is, if the Mandalores could afford to equip an entire army with Mandalorian Iron, why couldn't the empire?

Look with all the examples that I can think off in the EU, it wasn't a case of rest the lightsabre agains object A and watch as in cuts through it like a blow torch through butter, there was always an element of force* involved, some effort. Even Qui-Gon and to push the lightsabre through the other end with a strain.

*Force as in 'force' as in mass times acceleration, and not as in Force as mystic energy field created by all living things.

I agree. However, some people seem to have the impression that a lightsabre just vapourises whatever it touches, regardless of energy requirements. And this pisses me off.

That brings up a mindboggling question that I MUST ASK!

Have we actually SEEN a stormie cut down by a lightsaber in the movies?

Unless you count Jango Fett (Mace's saber went through his neck effortlessly), nope, never.

i want one to stick on the fridge

Kurgan wrote:Unless you count Jango Fett (Mace's saber went through his neck effortlessly), nope, never.

Didn't even scorch the helmet or the armor, so the neck probably was of a softer material.

EDIT: That makes me think, why did Mace bother to slash exactly thru Jango's neck. Doesn't prove anything but seems to hint that he thought the armor would have offered some degree of protection. Too bad they didn't actually show it.