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Midchlorians - Symptom or cause
Posted: 2005-03-23 06:56am
by mwm1331
Ok a loy of people seem pissed by the idea that midchlorians cause frce sensitvty based on TPM.
However AFAIR that was based on two scenes only, the one where Qui-gon tests anikkan, and where they surmise that the midichlorians might have impregnted his ma.
Now I have no idea how to ntepert the second but as for the first I think some of us may be jumping to conclusions.
Grnted the fact that qui-gon tests for them ndcates that midi can be used to determine Frce senstvty, however that does not necessarilly mean the cause it.
When testing for lukemia doctors test for higher white blood cell counts, but a high white blood cell count does not cause kemia it is merly a symptom.
Same goes for T-cells and Aids.
What if midichlorians are just parasitc organisms which feed on the force?
It would stand to reason that the more force "flow through" your body has the more mdi's you would have (if my idea is correct)
However I can not fit this in with the dea that they caused annikan birth.
Thoughts?
Posted: 2005-03-23 07:11am
by Gorefiend
Midi-chlorian
Category: Alien Races
this species of microscopic organism was known to the Jedi Knights as a symbiotic creature that exists within the cells of every living creature. Life in the galaxy was dependent upon the midi-chlorians, although the exact genesis of the microscopic midi-chlorians was unknown. There was no pattern which dictated the concentration of midi-chlorians in a being's make-up, but a higher count of midi-chlorians in a being's cells allowed them to touch the Force. As the count increased, so did the being's ability to contact and control the Force, but true mastery of the Force could only come from intense concentration and study. Thus, the Jedi Knights devoted themselves to the study and control of the Force, and developed techniques that could detect high concentrations of midi-chlorians in young infants. During the last years of the Old Republic, some Jedi began to believe that the relationship between midi-chlorians and the Force might actually be the opposite of traditional thinking. They believed that the Force created the midi-chlorians, as a way for it to reach out to life throughout the galaxy.
http://theforce.net/swenc/entrydesc.asp?search=16407
they give beings the ability to channel the force
Posted: 2005-03-23 07:24am
by RedImperator
There are no midichlorians. That never happened. It was all a mass delusion caused by LSD in the popcorn butter.
Posted: 2005-03-23 07:33am
by Gorefiend
RedImperator wrote:There are no midichlorians. That never happened. It was all a mass delusion caused by LSD in the popcorn butter.
The 400+ fighter veni must be the after-effect of the same popcorn
Posted: 2005-03-23 07:34am
by mwm1331
Ok then baiscally midichloriand are super mitochondria?
Damn its worse than I though.
Posted: 2005-03-23 07:40am
by Gorefiend
Why actually? It explains why force powers are more common in people that where sired by force sensitive people, it’s in their genes. We should be happy the emperor did not have any children together with one of his female hands, that would have been a kick ass dark side force wielding offspring.
Posted: 2005-03-23 09:02am
by Shinova
Err, the potential of the force is passed on from generation to generation.
It's supposed to be mystical!! Arrrrgg! I don't know why, in his attempt to create a mythical story, Lucas would do this.
Posted: 2005-03-23 09:37am
by mwm1331
Exactly shinova, coming up with bullshit technobabble explanations to things whch dont actually need an explanation s what star trek does, not star wars, at least untill now.
Posted: 2005-03-23 10:15am
by Zac Naloen
Its hardly a technical explanation.
It still doesn't explain where the force comes from. The midichlorians don't create the force, they're like the middleman...
Posted: 2005-03-23 10:18am
by mwm1331
How did mdchlorans being middle men advance the story at all?
How is it preferable to simply saying "the force works in mysterious ways?
Some things should not be explained.
Posted: 2005-03-23 11:34am
by Zac Naloen
Some things should not be explained.
Except it hasn't explained anything, just raised more questions.
How did mdchlorans being middle men advance the story at all?
By telling us why Luke is such a powerful force user beyond dumb luck, he inherited it from his father, you can tell by the dialogue that lucas always intended the force to be an inherited thing "The force is strong in my family" etc. (which i thought was pretty obvious anyway)
How is it preferable to simply saying "the force works in mysterious ways?
Its not, but it hardly makes things worse either.
Posted: 2005-03-23 11:39am
by Aki-Wan Hanabi
Lucas should have had let the fans to argue about the genetic nature of the force in the first place, now he has almost destroeyed the magical feeling of the supernatural in the SW galaxy
Posted: 2005-03-23 11:52am
by Zac Naloen
Aki-Wan Hanabi wrote:Lucas should have had let the fans to argue about the genetic nature of the force in the first place, now he has almost destroeyed the magical feeling of the supernatural in the SW galaxy
Thats the whole point, no he hasn't. Where does the force come from?
Its not from midichlorians, they just help the jedi interpret and access the force by unknown means.
But then how does their body communicate with these microscopic beings in their blood?
Its not like we can talk to the symbiotic bacteria in our bodies.
People are pissing and moaning over midichlorians but it really doesn't change anything. Its a rough guage by which the old republic guaged force sensitivity, Oh no its destroyed my dreams!! /sarcasm
Posted: 2005-03-23 12:28pm
by FireNexus
If Force Sensitivity were genetic, almost everyone would be force sensitive. Natural selection. That, or there would be a very high rate of force sensitivity among one species, or a few species, and the rest of the galaxy would have none at all, or very little.
Posted: 2005-03-23 12:42pm
by Gorefiend
Force abilities only really work if they are trained (as the quote indicated), if you have a high medi count, it just means you have far more potential in the force. Even if your have inherit force abilities you are most likely just a reject to society.
“IT CAN READ MY MIND! BURN IT; IT’S A WITCH!” – style
or you just hide them.
Posted: 2005-03-23 12:44pm
by RedImperator
Midichlorians add absolutely nothing to the story. You can take every mention of them out of the canon and nothing changes. You don't need to explain why the Force is strong in the Skywalker family--it is because the Force wants it that way, and that's that.
Posted: 2005-03-23 01:32pm
by Civil War Man
FireNexus wrote:there would be a very high rate of force sensitivity among one species
This is more of an aside than a contribution, but there are the Miraluka. For those of you not familiar with them, the Miraluka are near-humans in the EU whose homeworld did not receive enough visible light to see (most of their sun's light was ultraviolet, IIRC). As a result, evolution eventually granted them the ability to see with the Force, and their eyes atrophied from use.
Posted: 2005-03-23 01:52pm
by Gorefiend
There are also the azanti (vampire like aliens), or the people from mace windu’s home world, where most of the race is force sensitive.
Posted: 2005-03-23 02:00pm
by RedImperator
CivilWarMan wrote:FireNexus wrote:there would be a very high rate of force sensitivity among one species
This is more of an aside than a contribution, but there are the Miraluka. For those of you not familiar with them, the Miraluka are near-humans in the EU whose homeworld did not receive enough visible light to see (most of their sun's light was ultraviolet, IIRC). As a result, evolution eventually granted them the ability to see with the Force, and their eyes atrophied from use.
Wait, were they human settlers who evolved Force sensitivity to compensate for an environment to which they weren't adapted, or a native species that for some stupid reason evolved eyes adapted for visible light on a world that didn't have much?
Posted: 2005-03-23 02:10pm
by Civil War Man
RedImperator wrote:Wait, were they human settlers who evolved Force sensitivity to compensate for an environment to which they weren't adapted, or a native species that for some stupid reason evolved eyes adapted for visible light on a world that didn't have much?
Don't know. Personally I've found conflicting reports as to whether the Miraluka even have eyes. Some say they have eyes, but they're completely white. Others say they just have empty sockets.
Given their otherwise near-identical makeup to humans, I'd say the former. They were probably once human, but enough time on their homeworld eventually made them evolve to the point where they would be considered non-human.
Posted: 2005-03-23 02:28pm
by Gorefiend
http://people.freenet.de/swrs/miraluka.jpg
scanned from two wotc guides
they are in fact aliens, not near-humans (like the chiss, or etti)
Posted: 2005-03-23 02:36pm
by Lord Revan
I can't find any from that suggest anything about Mirlukan origins.
Posted: 2005-03-23 02:50pm
by Gorefiend
they seem to have evolved on alpheridies, but that's just a guess from the home world listed.
They aren’t human or near human, because the wotc guide I got the info from lists all near humans included in the guide later on, and the miraluka aren’t listed there. They might once have been human, but have mutated so far that they can no longer create offspring together with humans (that what near humans are in fact, not human races that can crossbreed with humans), or they always have been aliens.
Posted: 2005-03-23 03:41pm
by ali-sama
mwm1331 wrote:Ok then baiscally midichloriand are super mitochondria?
Damn its worse than I though.
mitochondria are inhereted trough the mother. had this been the case luke and leia would never be force sensitve.
Posted: 2005-03-23 03:44pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
Force sensitivity isn't inherently genetic.
For what it's worth, I have no problem with midichlorians whatsoever.
