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((Before beginning, it should be noted all stats for the augmented ISD were originally found HERE))

Well ladies and gents, here it is, my first 'Official' post in the StarWars forums I thought I'd start off with a perennial favourite, that of Re-Designing an ISD.

Now now, I know what your thinking, this has been done to death, well, bare with me for a second and hopefully I can work a bit of fresh life into this idea.

First off, I have to say before I logged on here, I read through ALL 69 pages of the StarWars forum, thus giving myself quite a bit of experience with what others have already suggested for remaking an ISD. One thing I have noted, is that often, most work on the assumption of taking a pre-existing ISD and improving it, altering it or modifying it. Well, my new class, referred to from here on as ‘War Galleon Class’ is a whole new class of ship, built from the ground up.

A few other things of note. More then 90% of all debate over ISDs’ come from exactly what purpose they have. A good example I have heared used is the ship that’s’ “Good at everything and best at nothing” Well, the War Galleon is designed with a much more specific set of goals in mind, further more it is designed at far different point in time.

I remember reading somewhere that the original ISD had more then 100,000 design flaws in it, but the Emperor, being Emperor, didn’t really give a flying crap and ordered them built with as much speed as possible, efficiency be damned. Well, the War Galleon is part of an RPG Project of mine that takes place during the time of the Imperial Remnant after the Vong. Basically during a time when what’s left of the Empire cannot afford the luxury of being wasteful with it’s resources, when every ship, every fighter, and every man is precious.

As such there’s a few subtle, but important changes. Firstly, while I know everyone out there has said one of the biggest weakness on an ISD is the over exposed Bridge, The Empire, or what’s left of them, just wouldn’t think like that, they want their ships mean, nasty and imposing, so I had to leave that feature the way it is; however, that doesn’t man that changes couldn’t be made. Personally I would leave the standard Tower Bridge, but turn it’s primary function over to just steering the ship. The ‘true’ bridge, where the ship and its systems would be run from, would be buried in the middle of the ship and act as a Crossroads for all information. A third bridge would be just below the tower of the ‘old’ bridge; this would serve as a flag bridge for admirals and such. ((notice, bridge ideas were originally taken from an old thread by CmdrWilkens))


Now, of the big things that ARE Changed, well, most of them can be scene if you skip ahead to the end and just click on the big Picture I hosted HERE …But for those that LIKE reading lots and lots of detail, well, here we go:

This ship, the ISD War Galleon class, is designed for long-term patrol and heavy capital ship engagements. It sacrifices almost the entire, nearly 10,000 Imperial ground troops, too make room for extra fuel, power, supply’s, droids, engines, shields etc. Heavy automation of non-essential functions further reduces the amount of people on bored. Basically, since the Remnant can no longer afford to resupply ships as massively crewed as an ISD, the new War-Galleon is designed to be far more self-sufficient and efficient. The crew of 37,000 has been reduced to a ‘mere’ 27,400 people.

The ships weapons itself, while not nearly as heavy as an ISD-II, are spread more evenly, able to hit more often, more frequently, rather then simply flooding a target with brute force. Also, four massive Ion cannons have been added to additional hull sections on the sides of the ship. These Massive KDY Ion Cannons are designed to disable a ship as large as a Carrick Cruiser in just a one shot.

The final addition of the new ISD is the extreme make over to the underside. Because there is no longer a need for massive landing barges and the 9,700 troops that go with them, the hanger’s sole purpose is to launch fighters as quick as possible. As such, instead of one massive, and IMHO extremely vulnerable Hanger, the hangers have been split into six, small, but highly efficient hangers. Each one can carry 18 TIEs in 3 rows of 6. Further more, because of the way they work, they can launch 24 TIEs at a time, launching all 108 in less then a minute. Of course on the War Galleon class, the front two hangers have a group of six heavily armed Skipray BlastBoats each to compliment their firepower.

The upshot of this will be to get rid of, what I have always considered to be the ISD’s most vulnerable area.

So that’s it! That’s the long-winded version of all the changes to this new ship, but, as mentioned, for the short gist of things, I direct you all to the Linky below. Since I am making this for an RPG Feedback is welcome, and please, be brutal, I want this to be as realistic as possible.

ISD-Next War-Galleon Class

Two points:

1. How big is it?

2. Change the class name. What the hell kind of name for a ship class is "War Galleon"?

1: Over all length is exactly the same as a normal ISD

2: Sorry about that, I'm kinda poor with names, suggestions?

I haven't examined it in detail, but I'd say that there's not really much need for all that space-consuming intermediate weaponry. Early battleships made the same mistake, and the dreadnought proved that folly.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I haven't examined it in detail, but I'd say that there's not really much need for all that space-consuming intermediate weaponry. Early battleships made the same mistake, and the dreadnought proved that folly.

Please explain? I actually thought I may have given the ship too MUCH firepower with the amount of Heavy TL Turrets I added (the ones in dark red) If you think I actually skimped on it, please let me know.

I like the name War Gallion.

It harks back to the English versions of the spanish gallions. A ship that sacrificed the troop carrying capacity for higher speed and gunfire capability. That really quite fits into the design of the concept.

Biggest problem most people(me included) have when designing fan ship for some universe is you glue guns (and other similar stuff) into the ship and don't think how power them (there's reason why some ships have just X guns, instead of so many you can into the hull.)

Lord Revan wrote:Biggest problem most people(me included) have when designing fan ship for some universe is you glue guns (and other similar stuff) into the ship and don't think how power them (there's reason why some ships have just X guns, instead of so many you can into the hull.)

Aha! But you see I have thought of this! Firstly you will notice instead of the 8 Octagon TL Turrets, I have ‘only’ 8 Quad TL-Turrets, thus cutting power in half for that. Also, you notice the ‘winglets’ on the side where the Heavy Ion cannons are, each one has a large reactor dedicated purely to powering the Massive KDY Ion Cannons.

Why have giant ion cannons, instead of equally-powerful turbolasers? Small ships can be disabled by brute force, like the Tantive IV, and against larger ships, which are actually a threat, I'd be more concerned about killing it than capturing it intact...

I'd replace the giant Ion cannons with grav well projectors, they're more usefull.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:Why have giant ion cannons, instead of equally-powerful turbolasers? Small ships can be disabled by brute force, like the Tantive IV, and against larger ships, which are actually a threat, I'd be more concerned about killing it than capturing it intact...

Well, mainly because While the ‘War Galleon’ is geared toward Heavy Engagements with other Capital ships, it’s also meant to try and avoid them whenever possible, thus prolonging it’s life as well as time it can stay away from SpaceDock. On the Ion Cannons, just imagine cutting a 20 minute battle with, oh say a Victory-SD down to about 5. I call that useful!

Ah yes, Also, some of you might have noticed I called this ‘ISD-Next’ and not ‘ISD-number here’ Well, evidently I can’t find a clear answer as to what number ISD it would be, most say there’s already an ISD-III, a few even an ISD-IV any cannon statements on this?

As for Grav-Wells, I had thought about that, but in trying to keep the ship more ‘realistic’ in it’s logistics and power use… I am not sure where I can put a Grav-Well Projector and still have the power for everything else.

When designing from the ground up, do you really need a lot of MTLs? Or could you go with mostly HTLs as your primary weapon, backed by lots of little anti-fighter guns?

PS: Nice work though, with the pics and whatnot.

LordShaithis wrote:When designing from the ground up, do you really need a lot of MTLs? Or could you go with mostly HTLs as your primary weapon, backed by lots of little anti-fighter guns?

I’ve been thinking about that, and in my opinion, the amount of Meds vs Heavies is just about right. Factoring power usage and efficiency, unless your engaging multiple Capital ships, you shouldn’t need that many more Big Guns. Also since this ship is specifically designed to do a BDZ, though it can really screw a world over given time for a long bombardment.

LordShaithis wrote:PS: Nice work though, with the pics and whatnot.

Thanks a lot as a Graphics Artist I have a lot of fun making my own starships and Tech, this is the first time I put my talents to making a StarWars ship and I’m pleased with how it turned out too

I would drop the complement of AT-PTs, since those are actually pretty uncommon, old, and mostly useless.

Well, On the AT-PT, I have to admit I wanted those for two reasons:
1: Because of the vast reduced Troop levels, when a ground engagement WAS needed, I wanted a good, strong mechanical defence for the other Troopers.
2: AT-PT’s are the closest StarWars has to Powered Armour or Mechs

Of course since my knowledge of SW Tech is by no means Encyclopaedic, if you know of something else that can fulfil the role of an Agile, heavy Mech unit that can cover for Troops, please let me know

Crossroads Inc. wrote:

LordShaithis wrote:When designing from the ground up, do you really need a lot of MTLs? Or could you go with mostly HTLs as your primary weapon, backed by lots of little anti-fighter guns?

I’ve been thinking about that, and in my opinion, the amount of Meds vs Heavies is just about right. Factoring power usage and efficiency, unless your engaging multiple Capital ships, you shouldn’t need that many more Big Guns. Also since this ship is specifically designed to do a BDZ, though it can really screw a world over given time for a long bombardment.

Then I don't see the need for all of the MTL's. For capship engagments and a deterent of such, HTL's and point defense guns. Especially if you want to keep the ion cannons. The HTL's to destroy ships, the Ion Cannons to take out medium threats and point defense for small prey.

I can't see too many situations where a commander would risk substantial damage to capture a ship close in power to itself, so most 'capture' operations would be on a weaker opponent, which means a health load-out of ion's would cover that while the power you save on the multiple MTL's can be used in propulsion/shields/another HTL.


Editied to fix quote tags.

Frankly I agree with Illuminatus. This War Galleon should NOT try to perform every job. It will weaken its ability to do other jobs.

If *I* had to redesign the ISD...Assuming an ISD II basic spaceframe (so you can upgraded II's to this new standard):

I'd kill the bridge. Period. Its just too exposed and ruins the ability to concentrate defence in certian arcs. I'd probably keep the command ridgeline and have it continue back, then come down to meet the stern of the ship. Keeping the internal space. Basicly really making the ship into a giant wedge. I'd also completly rip out the fighter and ground trooper ability. It should NOT pretend to be a carrier. Given the number of fighters the Venerator can hold, you should be able to upgrade the Escort Carriers to carry a couple of hundred fighters easily enough.

Trash the ISD's main hanger. But keep that smaller foward hanger. The ship should have say a half dozen Assault shuttles, along with their spacetroopers for boarding actions if needed. But thats it. Throw out the ground troops. It has no need for walkers at all. If you need walkers, call in the Imperial Army and their ready response ships who can be there in 60 minuites or your war is free. The stormtrooper contingent with their assault shuttles will make quick work of any small pirate base or whatever that needs crushing. Anything major, an ISD isn't going to be able to take on itself anyway.

As for weapons...

Six of the biggest Turbolaser turrets that can be mounted on a capital ship. Three on the ventral surface, three on the dorsal surface. Basicly, two at the bow, two port and two starboard. Right above and below each other. So you can focus everything forward, port, starboard and probably 5/6 aft. And any attacker comming in top or bottom will have to have at least 50% of the firepower directed back at them.

For a secondery battery capable of dealing with frigates and cruisers, without using the main guns, I'd use proton torpedo launchers. Say ten six cell turret mounted launchers. With six torpedoes per launcher.

If you really want an ion cannon, you only need one. Mounted right in the nose of the ship. Equal in power to a KDY-V150 at least, with the extra internal space you have now, you should be abel to fit the necessary reactor power for it. That thing was able to knock out an ISD II at least for a short time.

Thats the major weapons. Then I'd simply have say 120 quad anti fighter cannons. Basicly lift and reinstall from Lancer class Frigates. Those ships each had 20 quad guns linked into a collective targeting system for accurate co-ordinated fire. I'd do the same, except in batteries of 15. So you would have 8 batteries around the ship, each responsable for a single defence zone. Possibly each controling a single torpedo launcher (whos control can be overidden by the bridge for a single mass volley of course).

Then just give it the best shields and sublight speed it can sport. Hyperdrive, don't worry about the fastest. Its operating in the IR, not across the entire Galaxy.

I had always wondered why the Rebels never slapped one of those giant ion cannons on one of their cruisers. I drew up a few diagrams, but since I could never find a good measurement for the gun or the generators, it's probably WAY off.

I seem to recall the imperial troop transport ship from rebellion was called a Galleon, and it had a larger, armed cousin, the Star Galleon

So just by the name, I would associate this with something like the Alccamator, a heavily armed troop transport.

Name aside...
Your big ion cannons are a joke... sorry, but those are huge targets that can easily be taken out by fighters or heavier escorts early on in the engagement. This is one of those "all your eggs in 1 basket" type deals.
Additionally, what's the benefit of being able to disable a carrack cruiser in a few hits? A carrack cruiser is a light escort frigate with something like ten turbolasers, it is not a threat to a destroyer, the ability to disable one in a few hits is trivial. This ship will be going up against very well shielded NR destroyers, to win it needs to out run, out number or out gun it's enemies. If it has less brute damage than an ISD II, and doesn't have spectacular shielding, I don't think it's going to do well against modern NR warships, franky.

Well, don’t be too hard on me I did mention this was my very first attempt at creating a StarWars based Starship. Until now I’ve only been dabbling in my own little universe.

So far most of you have had a lot of valid points. Most of the Med-TL turrets should be replaced with Heavies. The Massive Ion Cannons are huge targets, and probably deserve extra shielding around them. One thing I didn’t mention is that the War Galleon was supposed to have vastly improved shields over the ISD-II and redundant shields much akin to Mon-Cal ships.

Also the War Galleon is NOT a do everything type of ship. I’m not sure how many read my original text, but the point of this thing was to have a reduced mission profile so it could focus specifically on certain tasks and be more efficient at it.

Addition, the original concept behind this, was to fix a ship that I saw as largely wasteful and inefficient. The only reason the old ISD’s worked is because they had a near endless supply line behind them constantly repairing and restocking them. This ship was an attempt to continue to work once that endless supply of resources was destroyed after the fall of the Galactic Empire.

Back on the Ion cannons, you are right, small frigates like Carracks are not much of a threat, that’s the point, that’s why it can afford to set back and disable it. Remember, the Imperial Remnant needs every ship it can get its hands on, so if your able to disable and take over lots of small ships, and send them back to an HQ, so much the better

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Well, don’t be too hard on me I did mention this was my very first attempt at creating a StarWars based Starship. Until now I’ve only been dabbling in my own little universe.

So far most of you have had a lot of valid points. Most of the Med-TL turrets should be replaced with Heavies. The Massive Ion Cannons are huge targets, and probably deserve extra shielding around them. One thing I didn’t mention is that the War Galleon was supposed to have vastly improved shields over the ISD-II and redundant shields much akin to Mon-Cal ships.

Your ship is sounding more and more costly. I don't know the kind of resources the IR have available to them, but I'll wager the more bells and whistles you throw in, the fewer of them they can make.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Back on the Ion cannons, you are right, small frigates like Carracks are not much of a threat, that’s the point, that’s why it can afford to set back and disable it. Remember, the Imperial Remnant needs every ship it can get its hands on, so if your able to disable and take over lots of small ships, and send them back to an HQ, so much the better

Why can't a host of smaller ion cannons do this...? Seriously, why do they have to be big? Every ship in star wars has lots of small guns, don't knock it if it works. Your ship is just another varient of the winged victory as far as I can tell.

If you really want this sucker to be a warship, get rid of the armor, the AT-ATs, probe droids, etc. That's so much space which you can use for more useful things.

Why weigh down your warship with non-space combat gear? If you wanna take a system, send a dedicated transport. The IR can't afford to lose ships? Okay, stop building jack-of-all-trade destroyers! Honestly, I would't even put fighters in the mix, you want tactical/strike craft, bring one of those escort carriers that look like a shoebox, it'll do a fine job!
If your ship dropped those things, I suspect it could be noticeably smaller, or you'd have a lot of extra space for more space combat oriented "stuff".


Just my opinion there, if you want a do everything destroyer this looks fine, aside from the silly big ion cannons.
Oh, and just as an aside, I happen to like ships armed with heavy proton torpeodes/concussion missiles, that's a much better use of your space, couple of missile silos will give it some serious throw weight in the beginning of a fight.

Your ship has WAY too many medium range turbolasers and FAR too many ions cannons.

An Imperator MKII already has 64 heavy turbolasers for it's main battery. If you want to make dedicated destroyer, than just use an enlarged version of the Victory class.

You claim you want specialization, but your ship stats look like some fanwank creation designed to do everything.

A more realistic heavy gunned ship would be:

128 Heavy turbolasers.

120 Light turbolasers

4 Quad laser cannons.

6 Ion cannons (the small type).

Craft compliment:

1 TIE Defender squadron.

1 Skipray blastboat squadron.

2 AT-ATs

8 AT-STs

This setup works well for an up-gunned Stardestroyer. It has a large heavy battery as well as a decent mix of lighter weapons and a craft compliment that seems reasonable for a deicated destroyer type class.

Chris OFarrell wrote:Frankly I agree with Illuminatus. This War Galleon should NOT try to perform every job. It will weaken its ability to do other jobs.

If *I* had to redesign the ISD...Assuming an ISD II basic spaceframe (so you can upgraded II's to this new standard):

(snip)

Didn't you just describe the Alliegance?

Given that the Alleigence is complete speculation, then no. We know there is an ISD like subclass of which one ship was called Alleigence. But we don't have the first idea of stats about its armements. Hell for all we know, it could be a troopship, an anti fighter screening platform, a command/C4I/sensor ship...

So bah!

Illuminatus Primus wrote:2: Sorry about that, I'm kinda poor with names, suggestions?

How bout Vortex class?