StarDestroyer.Net BBS

This is in direct response to antics from this thread that irritated me most enormously.

Assertion 1: Executor shares a common bridge tower design with the standard Imperator-class.



Assertion 2: Given the above, we can determine Executor's overall length. The preceding image is extracted directly out of this composite (the only difference is that I changed the background to blue in the composite 'cause the gray was messing with my head).


Click the image for a 6000x1000 pixel version, if desired

I composited these together from multiple photographs of the studio models to present the most accurate possible "orthographic" side view of the Executor studio model without resorting to a second-tier drawing of any kind (which tend to be inaccurate). The images were taken from those listed in the Executor exhibition section of the SWTC. The Star Destroyer composite is from the Cloudster model gallery of that ship. Bear in mind that discrepancies in the line-up exist for the simple reason that the photographs were taken very close to the model for the sake of capturing detail, when they would ideally be taken from far away with a zoom lens to "flatten" the image. Such is the problem with composite imagery, but the overall size is more or less accurate.

Important: The Executor composite is incomplete: there's a bit missing from the bow, which is why it doesn't end up being exactly 11 miles long. The photo was simply not available to finish the composite, sadly.

This discussion should not be considered open for debate (despite the fact that EU minimalists and Saxton-haters seem to think it is). The above evidence is airtight conclusive and arguing with it demonstrates your stupidity. It is directly derived from G-level canon. Deal with it.

Good, McC, a certain individual is almost driving me crazy...

looks at evidence,
looks at the popular conceptions of most members here…
looks at above evidence again…

You know what? All my guts tell me that ships of that size are just wonky, that logistically, it’s just silly, and there should never be a need for such a ludicrous sized ship… But then, I remind myself this is the Universe that brought me the DeathStar, and I humble accept the above.
((And just between you and me, it's the 'Same bridge size' comp[arisons that clinches it for me))

I love it when people think that the ideal planet-assault platform ought to be a ship with barely 9700 marines and 72 fighters. Against PLANETS.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I love it when people think that the ideal planet-assault platform ought to be a ship with barely 9700 marines and 72 fighters. Against PLANETS.

Ugh, I know. Executor is a prime example of why the Empire is cool and I hate it when people downplay how impressive it is.

Probably the same people who think that entire planets can be subjugated by a few hundred or thousand reptilian aliens who need a special chemical to live, running around with no armor, toting pistols and carbines.

And that Executor mosaic is awesome. That would be a great reference.

Wow and all the attention only because it took amazon a few days longer to get me a copy of picture book

I actually love the executor fellows I am just saying that she is not that great a fighting ship as some people put her down to be and can be beaten by a fleet of less then 1000 normal warships as she was. I apologize for the size error on my part, as said if I had the book a few days earlier that would not have been part of it.

I thought it was because you were being a dumbass about the whole issue...

Firefox wrote:Probably the same people who think that entire planets can be subjugated by a few hundred or thousand reptilian aliens who need a special chemical to live, running around with no armor, toting pistols and carbines.

Can we shoot those people? With dart guns? Tipped with some kind of flesh-eating acid?

And that Executor mosaic is awesome. That would be a great reference.

Feel free to save it and use it (but please avoid linking it back to my site all over the web). I'd like credit for putting it together if you use it and I think it's prudent to credit Saxton & co. for the images, but those are just preferences and I can't really claim much in the way of proprietary rights over this composite

Gorefiend wrote:Wow and all the attention only because it took amazon a few days longer to get me a copy of picture book

Then fix your sig. Now.

McC wrote:Feel free to save it and use it (but please avoid linking it back to my site all over the web). I'd like credit for putting it together if you use it and I think it's prudent to credit Saxton & co. for the images, but those are just preferences and I can't really claim much in the way of proprietary rights over this composite

I'll do so if I ever post it elsewhere. Otherwise, I was going to keep it in the vain hope that sometime, in the future, I scratch build an Executor.

You know, I have to say, I always found it amazing the people who claimed that the ‘Executors’ bridge was massively smaller or larger then a standard ISD bridge.

Purely from a practical standpoint, it makes no sense to build a whole new bridge for a new ship design, regardless of the overall size of the ship. If your making a SD, whatever the size, a standard bridge should be sufficient.

The Falcon's flyby of the bridge in RotJ suggests that it's larger than an ISD's bridge. The freighter's a tiny speck next to it, compared to what it looked like perched on the back of the Avenger's bridge.

Gorefiend wrote:I actually love the executor fellows I am just saying that she is not that great a fighting ship as some people put her down to be and can be beaten by a fleet of less then 1000 normal warships as she was. I apologize for the size error on my part, as said if I had the book a few days earlier that would not have been part of it.

Yeah, and I still want your justification for this using G-level canon. Executor has encountered enemy vessels three times.

1) ESB, battle of Hoth. Executor oversaw the battle, but their objective was capture, not destruction. There were no major capital ships to be engaged in this battle.

2) ESB, escape from Bespin. Executor vs. Millennium Falcon? Right Again, they were attempting capture, not destruction. Or do you think that because the MilFal flew so close to the trench that it could evade Executor's thousands of weapons emplacements?

3) ROTJ, battle of Endor. Executor and the Star Destroyers were instructed to not attack. The entire battle was a sham because of Palpatine's little power play with Skywalker. The actual number of depicted capital ship fatalities is questionable (I think the total number consisted of the two MonCals taken out by the DS, an ISD taken out in the background during the "Concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer" scene, and Executor's own destruction as a result of crashing). Executor seemed to spend most of its time gunning at starfighters and ignoring the ships bombarding it.

Furthermore, it took the concentrated firepower of the entire Rebel fleet to take down Executor's bridge deflector shields, and then through sheer chance (or luck or the Force or whatever) the control center was destroyed by an errant A-wing. Piett's order to "intensify the forward batteries" clearly indicates that they weren't exerting anything close to full firepower. In fact, his command even suggests that all Executor is attempting to do is prevent anything from "getting through" (to the bridge, most likely).

Never have we seen in G-level canon any depiction of an Executor performing in a heavy combat role. Every other instance of an Executor-class ship that we've seen has been one that was largely run down for various reasons, IIRC.

I await your reply.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:The Falcon's flyby of the bridge in RotJ suggests that it's larger than an ISD's bridge. The freighter's a tiny speck next to it, compared to what it looked like perched on the back of the Avenger's bridge.

Exactly when does the Falcon ever fly by Executor's bridge? The only thing I can think of is when Tydirium flies past the bridge and when the Falcon is flying along Executor's lateral trench, which is significantly taller than the entire bridge structure.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:The Falcon's flyby of the bridge in RotJ suggests that it's larger than an ISD's bridge. The freighter's a tiny speck next to it, compared to what it looked like perched on the back of the Avenger's bridge.

That was the Tydirium flyby scene, actually. Considering the camera angles and other shots showing ISDs flying alongside the Executor the bridge tower can't be much larger than the Imperator towers.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:The Falcon's flyby of the bridge in RotJ suggests that it's larger than an ISD's bridge. The freighter's a tiny speck next to it, compared to what it looked like perched on the back of the Avenger's bridge.

Well there's a problem (IIRC) there's no shot of Falcon passsing the bridge of the Executor.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:The Falcon's flyby of the bridge in RotJ suggests that it's larger than an ISD's bridge. The freighter's a tiny speck next to it, compared to what it looked like perched on the back of the Avenger's bridge.

Right right, yea it was the Tydirium and not the Falcon that flew by, but your point is well taken… In all fairness you are correct, according to the movie, the bridge is many MANY times larger then a normal ISD Bridge. Plus they did make a custom modle for the movie that WAS much larger.

BUT!

IMHO, I think it makes sense to have a standard sized ISD Bridge for all SD style ships

Gorefiend wrote:Wow and all the attention only because it took amazon a few days longer to get me a copy of picture book

I actually love the executor fellows I am just saying that she is not that great a fighting ship as some people put her down to be and can be beaten by a fleet of less then 1000 normal warships as she was. I apologize for the size error on my part, as said if I had the book a few days earlier that would not have been part of it.

No, you're just wrong, it also has about eighty times the firepower and thirty times the fighter complement. And your apology comes off as disingenuous. The correct figures and their sources were stated to you many times while you continued to dispute them.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Right right, yea it was the Tydirium and not the Falcon that flew by, but your point is well taken… In all fairness you are correct, according to the movie, the bridge is many MANY times larger then a normal ISD Bridge. Plus they did make a custom modle for the movie that WAS much larger.

BUT!

IMHO, I think it makes sense to have a standard sized ISD Bridge for all SD style ships

They made a close-up, detailed model for a, surprise surprise, close-up, detailed shot of the bridge That doesn't mean that the bridge tower itself is much larger, just that there's a particularly large model of the Executor bridge.

No g level but if all star wars would only be the moviesl it would be a very sad star wars galaxy ;]
The 1000 warship statement in saxton’s new work is eu as well and that was the one is was getting at.

The fighter capacity is open to discussion and saxon gave it more then 80times the firepower himself with the 5000 weapons statement.

Gorefiend wrote:No g level but if all star wars would only be the moviesl it would be a very sad star wars galaxy ;]
The 1000 warship statement in saxton’s new work is eu as well and that was the one is was getting at.

Yes, and I'm telling you to provide your C-level examples of these occasions that I can't shoot down by showing you how there were extenuating circumstances (such as being run-down, short on supplies, etc.).

Gorefiend wrote:No g level but if all star wars would only be the moviesl it would be a very sad star wars galaxy ;]
The 1000 warship statement in saxton’s new work is eu as well and that was the one is was getting at.

No, again you run your mouth without knowing what you're talking about. Saxton's DK work is novelisation/radio drama-level canon, subordinate to only the movies and superior to all other EU.

The 1000 warship statement in saxton’s new work is eu as well and that was the one is was getting at.

He was referring to a specific class of Separatist warship, of which four were needed to equal one Venator. I'd say the Mon Cal warships were significantly more powerful than the Venator class.

Only the movie seen part of it, not the authors own added work, like the mendiator dreadnaught is.

i would have to go for the bacta wars and severals fights with the iron fist

Only the movie seen part of it, not the authors own added work, like the mendiator dreadnaught is.

Not to sidetrack, but is there any way we could have standard English grammar, mechanics and syntax?