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How many shots per second would a weapon need to be able to fire in order to overwealm and shoot a Jedi? I bring this up because of another thread I'm involved with elsewhere.

I honestly doubt there's a mathematical formula that will give you an exact amount of simultaneous shots that will be required to hit a Jedi. Several factors come in:

-Accuracy: firing a hundred bolts at a Jedi doesn't make much difference if 90 bolts were going to miss anyway (which is the case in the AoTC battle)
-Jedi attitude: is he just going to try to put the saber between him and the bolts, or is he actually going to try to predict where NOT to stand to get the lesser amount of bolts aimed at him.
-Shooter tactics: we see Jango toasting a Jedi, apparently by confusing him or using unpredictable firing patterns, or maybe just by increasing the power of the shots. Don't forget the near 100% accuracy of his shots when firing from a stable position.
My theory is that most mid-level Jedi don't expect each and every single shot to be made with deadly accuracy, they actually count on the fact that not every shot is going to be a hit. Higher Jedi like Mace or Yoda could be virtually invulnerable to blaster fire, OTOH, and even unblockable blasts by other kinds of weapons just by virtue of not standing in their path - better future-reading ability. Probably the only two Jedi in the Galaxy able to be THAT deadly, though (unless... well, I'll wait for the third movie when Mace probably gets toasted to decide )
-Range: point-blank shots are much less likely to be blocked. Specially if the Jedi is preparing to swing - imagine if instead of firing lots of shots at Mace, I just waited until he made his "backswing" and then shot him on his unprotected torso? Obviously I'm not going to want to be in that position in the first place, and I'm not counting possibility of Jedi moving their arms at light speed, but whatever, I suppose you get the point.

Kon_El wrote:Mace was able to jump out of the way of Jangos flamethrower but not withour catching his robe on fire.

That is indeed true. Had it been a machinegun he'd be bleeding to death from that arm.

dows anyone know the muzzle velocity of a blaster?

Kon_El wrote:dows anyone know the muzzle velocity of a blaster?

There is only speculation. Either it moves at light speed but looks like it doesn't, or it doesn't move at light speed. I don't know if anyone has estimated the speed of the actual visual FX for hand blasters.

What was the approximate rate of fire for SBD's and Droidekas/ Destroyers?

Certainly the volume of fire of those droids would be an important factor to consider in volume of fire against a Jedi. After all didn't Mike Wong say the firing rate was roughly between 300-600 shots a minute for an SBD. If that were true then the jedi should've been being mowed down if they were slow enough or arrogant enough not to put up a defense even if half of the shots missed.

Slartibartfast wrote:

Kon_El wrote:dows anyone know the muzzle velocity of a blaster?

There is only speculation. Either it moves at light speed but looks like it doesn't, or it doesn't move at light speed. I don't know if anyone has estimated the speed of the actual visual FX for hand blasters.

Well there is a theory that the invisble part of the bolt actually accelerates much, much faster then the colored or visible part of the bolt that we see onscreen, kinda like tracer fire.

And we must remember that even those visible parts of a bolt were seen PASSING Count Dooku's aircraft as it was leaving the planet and those shots were coming from Clonetrooper blaster rifles and Amidala's pistol.

Plus all of the numerous instances of blaster fire noneffectually striking aircraft like X-Wings and the like when they are zipping around.

The rate of fire for Blastech E-11 (stormtrooper) is 6 per second

Obi-Wan Kenobi then, even when not a full jedi, managed to block 15 shots a second from two widely different forward angles of attack.

when?

Kon_El wrote:The rate of fire for Blastech E-11 (stormtrooper) is 6 per second

Obi-Wan Kenobi then, even when not a full jedi, managed to block 15 shots a second from two widely different forward angles of attack.

when?

The Phantom Menace. Remember that movie?

Kon_El wrote:The rate of fire for Blastech E-11 (stormtrooper) is 6 per second

Obi-Wan Kenobi then, even when not a full jedi, managed to block 15 shots a second from two widely different forward angles of attack.

when?

The E-11 statement is not true. The actual, maximum rate of fire for such a weapon IIRC is around 30 rps, but such fire can only be maintained for a very brief amount of time.

Shocker wrote:

Kon_El wrote:The rate of fire for Blastech E-11 (stormtrooper) is 6 per second

Obi-Wan Kenobi then, even when not a full jedi, managed to block 15 shots a second from two widely different forward angles of attack.

when?

The Phantom Menace. Remember that movie?

What SCENE of that movie?

Master of Ossus wrote:

Kon_El wrote:The rate of fire for Blastech E-11 (stormtrooper) is 6 per second

Obi-Wan Kenobi then, even when not a full jedi, managed to block 15 shots a second from two widely different forward angles of attack.

when?

The E-11 statement is not true. The actual, maximum rate of fire for such a weapon IIRC is around 30 rps, but such fire can only be maintained for a very brief amount of time.

where is that stated? the only stat I could find was here that the two shot burst from a E-11 had them 1/6th of a second apart.

Kon_El wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:

Kon_El wrote:The rate of fire for Blastech E-11 (stormtrooper) is 6 per second when?

The E-11 statement is not true. The actual, maximum rate of fire for such a weapon IIRC is around 30 rps, but such fire can only be maintained for a very brief amount of time.

where is that stated? the only stat I could find was here that the two shot burst from a E-11 had them 1/6th of a second apart.

Oops, sorry, it doesn't say that, now that I checked my source. I was misremembering two articles in EGWT, but if your rate of fire is from burst setting, there are almost certainly higher rates of fire (though I don't now know what they would be). The weapon is described in EGWT as having pulse fire and fully automatic modes. It has a 100-shot magazine.

The part that I was misremembering was that I thought it said that fully automatic fire drained the power pack in less than three seconds, but that was actually for another weapon.

true but with the purpose of burst fire being to fire the shots as closely together in order to have the first one crack any armor so that the second round will penetrate the two shots would come out at the maximum speed of the gun. logicaly the amount of distance between shots in the two shots should be the same as the speed of full auto.

if the two shots are 1/6th of a second apart then the guns full auto rate is 6rounds a second.

Kon_El wrote:How many shots per second would a weapon need to be able to fire in order to overwealm and shoot a Jedi?

Potentially one, if the shooter is using a dispersal weapon, such as a shotgun.

Jedi can be overwhelmed, in the cavern in the Hand Of Thrawn, Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade were in severe danger of being blasted by 2 droids with blasters. The text of the scene suggests that no Jedi can block constant blasterfire indefinately, even Force-Strengthened muscles tire eventually.

If the shots come quickly enough, a Jedi simply would not have enough time to move his saber from one position to another. That, or one can simply fire three beams at once in a triangle. A Jedi will only be able to block two of them at most.

Yogi wrote:If the shots come quickly enough, a Jedi simply would not have enough time to move his saber from one position to another. That, or one can simply fire three beams at once in a triangle. A Jedi will only be able to block two of them at most.

Jedi do have an enhanced ability to move their weapons very quickly, as is stated numerous times in the EU (ref. Darksaber, for sure. It's been used in other books, but I can't remember which ones, at the moment.). Jedi CAN be overwhelmed, and they do tire from sustained combat (ref. The Approaching Storm). A triangular pattern of fire is probably the best solution.

Better way of dealing with Jedi is through the miracle of fragmentation. Shoot a grenade into the ground near them or fire your E-11 at the walls. There are plenty of examples in the EU of fragments injuring Jedi, so it seems unlikely that they could simply push them aside.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Better way of dealing with Jedi is through the miracle of fragmentation. Shoot a grenade into the ground near them or fire your E-11 at the walls. There are plenty of examples in the EU of fragments injuring Jedi, so it seems unlikely that they could simply push them aside.

Jedi have stopped such attacks in the past, but not while effectively engaged in combat with other beings. It appears to require a great deal of concentration, on their part. They seem similarly vulnerable to grenades and thermal detonators, except that these can be manipulated with the Force while they are still being thrown. Good tactic, though, and probably the one I would try if I simply could not avoid combat with a Jedi.

Shocker wrote:What was the approximate rate of fire for SBD's and Droidekas/ Destroyers?

Certainly the volume of fire of those droids would be an important factor to consider in volume of fire against a Jedi. After all didn't Mike Wong say the firing rate was roughly between 300-600 shots a minute for an SBD. If that were true then the jedi should've been being mowed down if they were slow enough or arrogant enough not to put up a defense even if half of the shots missed.

Maybe it was burst fire, and like what someone else said the shots were grouped closely so minimal movement would have been required to deflect all of them.

That said, give me a thermobaric rocket any day.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Kon_El wrote:This guy was convinced that no matter the rate of fire or muzzle velocity a Jedi could dodge/block all the shots and always win

He's wrong. Multiple EU sources state that Jedi can be overwhelmed by large numbers of shooters. He's probably using the line of reasoning presented in a recent SW Insider, stating that masters of Type III are virtually invulnerable in combat. The problem is that the article was clearly referring only to lightsaber against lightsaber combat, and not against blaster fire.

Okay. HDS's random attempt at high-jacking this thread has been split into another thread. Have a nice day.

-Master of Ossus

Darth Pounder wrote:Jedi can be overwhelmed, in the cavern in the Hand Of Thrawn, Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade were in severe danger of being blasted by 2 droids with blasters. The text of the scene suggests that no Jedi can block constant blasterfire indefinately, even Force-Strengthened muscles tire eventually.

The problem was that the droids where coming in from different angles, later on Luke held at bay 5 or so Chiss with Ysalamaris on their backs.

HDS's second attempt at high-jacking this thread will also be edited.

-Master of Ossus

Listen, HDS, your first high-jacking attempt was totally random. After you tried to high-jack it the first time, I split your thread into its own topic. The second time I edited the post because it tried to make an on-topic point, and I did not want to prevent you from making that point. The THIRD time you tried to high-jack the thread, you made the exact same post that you did the first time, so I just deleted it. I have no idea what part of this I'm not being clear on. If I split your thread into a separate topic, I do NOT want that thread to become a part of the original discussion. Consider youself warned.

Warned from WHAT?
This is not a hijack, this is ontopic, this bastard is speaking about this very same topic at SB, and he's saying stuff like I've been claiming stuff I haven't claimed at all, I've got every right to be pissed, and I am pissed and I will continue to be pissed and it's perfectly 100% ontopic.