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Grievous Theory + Questions
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:19pm
by Darth Fanboy
Im trying to be as spoiler free as possible for ROTS, but I had this theory I feel obligated to bring up. My own Star Wars conspiracy theory which people will probably not believe but thats ok.
(pure speculation with no evidence backing it)
Darth Maul is General Grievous.
I believe that Palpatine attempted to recover what of Darth Maul that he could and then used the droid technology of the CIS. What little of him left they felt they could incorporate into a cybernetic droid body, how much of his memory remains I have no idea, I think that maybe he retained his aptitude for combat and such and perhaps loyalty to Sidious.
If Anakin could be saved to become Darth Vader after being near killed in some volcanic firepit then, well, ya know, why not?
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:21pm
by Firefox
He can't be Maul. Grievous was a Kaleesh warrior. Maul was Iridonian Zabrak.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:25pm
by Darth Fanboy
I know Maul was a Zabrak (HAd another conspiracy that he was related to Eeth Koth) but WTF is a Kaleesh warrior?
Re: Grievous Theory
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:26pm
by Lord Revan
Darth Fanboy wrote:Im trying to be as spoiler free as possible for ROTS, but I had this theory I feel obligated to bring up. My own Star Wars conspiracy theory which people will probably not believe but thats ok.
(pure speculation with no evidence backing it)
Darth Maul is General Grievous.
I believe that Palpatine attempted to recover what of Darth Maul that he could and then used the droid technology of the CIS. What little of him left they felt they could incorporate into a cybernetic droid body, how much of his memory remains I have no idea, I think that maybe he retained his aptitude for combat and such and perhaps loyalty to Sidious.
If Anakin could be saved to become Darth Vader after being near killed in some volcanic firepit then, well, ya know, why not?
Two problems
first Grievous has reptialian Eyes, Maul has "Normal" eyes.
Second Grievous has no force power what so ever
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:28pm
by Lord Revan
Darth Fanboy wrote:I know Maul was a Zabrak (HAd another conspiracy that he was related to Eeth Koth) but WTF is a Kaleesh warrior?
Warrior from species Kaleesh.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:32pm
by Gorefiend
Second Grievous has no force power what so ever
Your sure of that? I can’t think of any source that says he does not have any. His Wotc Miniature actually has force points, though that’s not really a source I would care to consult for such things. 
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:38pm
by THEHOOLIGANJEDI
Gorefiend wrote:Second Grievous has no force power what so ever
Your sure of that? I can’t think of any source that says he does not have any. His Wotc Miniature actually has force points, though that’s not really a source I would care to consult for such things.
Plus, I find it difficult seeing Grevious being a threat to a Jedi w/o some sort of Force adept status. Otherwise couldn't he just get Force Thrown against the wall at crushing speeds?
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:39pm
by Firefox
but WTF is a Kaleesh warrior?
+
http://forums.somethingawful.co*/showth ... &threadid=
1471431&perpage=40&pagenumber=47
1/3 the way down. [Z?]NNY's post.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:39pm
by tumbletom
That would be cool though, in a "maul-comes-back-from-the-dead-to-kill-us-all-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" way
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:42pm
by Firefox
It would only have worked if Maul wasn't wounded in such an obviously fatal way, and had been hinted at in AotC. Otherwise, such a connection between Maul and Grievous would be contrived and stupid.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:43pm
by Freeman's Trigger-Finger
Seeing as how you want to remain spoiler free, I wont go into detail, but suffice to say that LoE pretty much covered the details of Grevious's origins and they are not in fact of Darth Maul.
Then there is of course the inconsistency which comes up when you take into account that Sidious had already recruited Tyranus as he's apprentice and had already made plans for Anakin to be turned.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:43pm
by Lord Revan
Gorefiend wrote:
Your sure of that? I can’t think of any source that says he does not have any. His Wotc Miniature actually has force points, though that’s not really a source I would care to consult for such things.
it has been comformend that's he's nothing but the "remains" of a talented Kaleesh General in a Droid body. All the advantance he has over Jedi comes from the droid body and the fact wield up to 5 lightsabers at once
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:45pm
by SylasGaunt
THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Plus, I find it difficult seeing Grevious being a threat to a Jedi w/o some sort of Force adept status. Otherwise couldn't he just get Force Thrown against the wall at crushing speeds?
You mean kinda like what Dooku did when they were training right before urging him to attack faster and break his focus?
Dooku says that to defeat the Jedi Grievous needs fear, surprise, and intimidation.. something he has in spades among the order after Hypori. Then there's the fact that he's had dooku drilling him in how to fight Jedi.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:49pm
by THEHOOLIGANJEDI
SylasGaunt wrote:THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Plus, I find it difficult seeing Grevious being a threat to a Jedi w/o some sort of Force adept status. Otherwise couldn't he just get Force Thrown against the wall at crushing speeds?
You mean kinda like what Dooku did when they were training right before urging him to attack faster and break his focus?
Dooku says that to defeat the Jedi Grievous needs fear, surprise, and intimidation.. something he has in spades among the order after Hypori. Then there's the fact that he's had dooku drilling him in how to fight Jedi.
EU source?? I kinda lost interest in EU with the Prequels and all. Which book, comic, etc?
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:51pm
by Lord Revan
THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:SylasGaunt wrote:THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Plus, I find it difficult seeing Grevious being a threat to a Jedi w/o some sort of Force adept status. Otherwise couldn't he just get Force Thrown against the wall at crushing speeds?
You mean kinda like what Dooku did when they were training right before urging him to attack faster and break his focus?
Dooku says that to defeat the Jedi Grievous needs fear, surprise, and intimidation.. something he has in spades among the order after Hypori. Then there's the fact that he's had dooku drilling him in how to fight Jedi.
EU source?? I kinda lost interest in EU with the Prequels and all. Which book, comic, etc?
it comes from Clone wars Cartoon.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:51pm
by Mange
Oh brother, this has been refuted ages ago. To create an entire thread about it is unnecessary.
Posted: 2005-03-29 02:58pm
by Gorefiend
it has been comformend that's he's nothing but the "remains" of a talented Kaleesh General in a Droid body. All the advantance he has over Jedi comes from the droid body and the fact wield up to 5 lightsabers at once
I am not saying he is going to go around throwing force lighting in every direction ^^, but there are still some living parts of him, which might have retained a force sensitivity that he had as full living being.
Posted: 2005-03-29 03:46pm
by Praxis
THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Gorefiend wrote:Second Grievous has no force power what so ever
Your sure of that? I can’t think of any source that says he does not have any. His Wotc Miniature actually has force points, though that’s not really a source I would care to consult for such things.
Plus, I find it difficult seeing Grevious being a threat to a Jedi w/o some sort of Force adept status. Otherwise couldn't he just get Force Thrown against the wall at crushing speeds?
Shaak-Ti actually did that. Unfortunately, it was the wall that broke, not Grievous.
Mace Windu was smarter, and essentially used force grip and crushed Grievous' chest. Lucky for Grievous he was already in his escape ship when Windu smushed him.
Some of the other Jedi (Ki-Adi-Mundi, a Talz, and an Ithorian) tried to hit him with force blasts but he always jumped out of the way.
So there are three possibilities.
Theory #1:
All Jedi are stupid, blithering idiots, with the exception of Mace Windu.
Theory #2:
Grievous moves too fast for them to get a 'force lock' on him.
Theory #3:
During his training session with Dooku, Dooku told Grievous, "Faster, destroy my focus". He also advised Grievous that if he didn't have fear, surprise, and intimidation on his side he should flee. So I think Grievous tries to surprise Jedi and move rapidly to prevent them from concentrating and using the force.
Posted: 2005-03-29 03:56pm
by Firefox
The obvious fear Shaak Ti and the other Jedi in Chapter 20 expressed when Grievous arrived seems to indicate he's successful at #3.
Posted: 2005-03-29 04:04pm
by SylasGaunt
And you notice that at least one Jedi keeps getting away to talk about him to the others?
As for Jedi Force powers, it's fairly obvious from what they say in Clone Wars that he doesn't get nailed with the Force for the same reason you don't see Jedi constantly force blasting each other or that Obi-wan didn't immobilize Jango Fett with the Force.. he keeps the pressure on, forcing them to focus more on keeping him from killing them than summoning up the concentration to do unpleasant things to him telekinetically.
The Talz, Ithorian, Shaak Ti, Mace, and Ki-Adi Mundi all had one thing in common when they used force abilities on Grievous, namely that they weren't engaged in close saber combat. Ki-Adi had leapt away and gotten clear, getting the time to focus (grievous dodged). Mace wasn't in a saber duel (and is damn strong by Jedi standards anyway) and owns him in under 3 seconds.
Plus we also have to wonder about how durable that droid body of his is. If it's constructed well enough your average Jedi may not be able to do much to it (Mace definitely doesn't qualify as average).
Posted: 2005-03-29 04:11pm
by Praxis
I think his body is strong enough that the environment can't easily hurt him (aka, throwing him into a wall breaks the wall, not him), but he can still be crunched by the force.
However, grabbing a hold of him in the force and squeezing is probably a lot harder than just pushing.
Posted: 2005-03-29 04:11pm
by Darth Fanboy
Well I learned quite a bit and still managed to avoid most spoilers. I thinks i'll be picking up a copy of LoE tonight or tomorrow to give me more knowledge. Tankyew guys.
I really thought Grievous would have some sort of Force powers though, which led to my way off base idea.
ADDENDUM:
Thread title changed to better reflect der content, and to help steer people away who don't want to know much.
Also, what's the relationship between Grievous and Ventress? I haven't been able to find/see anything.
Posted: 2005-03-29 04:53pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
Darth Fanboy wrote:I really thought Grievous would have some sort of Force powers though, which led to my way off base idea.
I could swear that one of the leaked upcoming comics does imply as part of his life-saving cyborgisation, Grievous was given some sort of enhancement to make him artificially Force sensitive to some degree (and if I do recall correctly, the "doner" Jedi was the deceased Sifo Dias).
Also, what's the relationship between Grievous and Ventress? I haven't been able to find/see anything.
I don't think they actually have any sort of connection.
Posted: 2005-03-29 05:01pm
by Firefox
I could swear that one of the leaked upcoming comics does imply as part of his life-saving cyborgisation, Grievous was given some sort of enhancement to make him artificially Force sensitive to some degree (and if I do recall correctly, the "doner" Jedi was the deceased Sifo Dias).
Check the SA link I posted. The comic mentioned there is probably it.
Posted: 2005-04-01 11:16am
by Spartan
Greivious was most definitely infused with midi's from Syfo Dias's blood.
Oh, and Maul could easily have suvived being cut in two. Maw, who was one of the seven dark jedi defeated by Kyle Katarn had be cleaved in half by a Jedi. Technology and the darkside kept him alive. A built in repulsor unit for mobility and could fly! Maw wasn't even a Sith Lord, Maul should have been able to hold out for awhile assuming help eventually arrived, and if the fall didn't kill him. There was also the Jedi, Luke discovered in DE that was a floating torso, Bran? Maybe?
Spoiler:
I'm not sure if the tale is in continuity but Maul did survive and appears in a comic three years post ROTS on Tatooine in an attempt to finally kill Obi-Wan. No repulsor lift body though, looks like he was equiped with a lower body based of Grevious'.