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Ok I've read Mikes Imperial power generation page. And I still have questions about hypermatter and Imperial power in general. I noticed it was last updated in 99, so I'm hoping new info has come to light.

My questions:

1. What is hypermatter?

2. Where does it come from?

3. Does it power everything in SW? IE: is the Falcon powered by hypermatter? Are TIE's?

Cpl Kendall wrote:1. What is hypermatter?

Hypermatter is matter with complex rest mass. Where a piece of normal matter or even antimatter has rest mass that can described as a positive number (matter with a negative rest mass is known as negative matter), hypermatter is described by a complex number of the form a + bi - where a is a (positive in this case) real number, b is a real number, and i is the square root of -1. Hypermatter can have imaginary mass.

It forms a ballast in starships. Manipulating the phase angle on the complex number plane for the complex matter, which is apparently what hyperdrives do, maintains the magnitude or quantity of mass, but manipulates it. For example, the phase angle can be manipulated such that the mass becomes entirely imaginary. Imaginary mass travels at velocities faster than c. By manipulating the complex mass of the starship with hypermatter, a hyperdrive can simply transform the warship from tardyonic matter, into tachyons.

Additionally, it appears that hypermatter is also annhiliated for energy. It seems that the imaginary part of hypermatter is not experienced in a normal way by the starship, meaning that the warship's drives do not need to be responsible for any interia of the imaginary mass. However, the imaginary mass is manipulated (see above) from circulating tachyons into ordinary matter right before annhiliation. This allows hypermatter annhiliation to "cheat" E=mc^2, but not really. Most of the fuel is stored as tachyons, and thus the drives do not need to deal with all the inertia of the mass of the fuel in addition to the starship.

Cpl Kendall wrote:2. Where does it come from?

Probably refined from exotic stellar sources. At least that's where the raw energy must be acquired. How the hypermatter is itself created is unknown.

Cpl Kendall wrote:3. Does it power everything in SW? IE: is the Falcon powered by hypermatter? Are TIE's?

Most everything that does not appear to pay the price of the mass of what its fuel should mass when considering its power, probably uses hypermatter.

Ok, did you make that intentionally confusing?

Sounded like technobabble to me .

Of course it's technobabble. It's just the type that makes sense, rather than Treknobabble, which doesn't.

The Cleric wrote:Sounded like technobabble to me .

See, thats the problem with StarWars Tech.. It's all fine and dandy until you actually try to explaine it. As long as you stick to simple things like "Hypermater = SuperFuel" your ok.. once you actually try to EXPLAINE Hypermatter, or how it creates its Energy, you will inevitably fall into the Trap that has sucked the Life out of StarTrek, where the Tech becomes a Bigger item then the story itself.

Except that none of these technical investigations ever intrude into the fiction of Star Wars. It's reserved more or less exclusively to the technical reference books.

Besides, there's no problem as long as you stick to the bounds of logic and physics, even when such applications technically violate straight physics. It's when you just make shit up and play Mad Libs with terminology that you get into trouble,

Where does that explanation come from, Primus?

Cpl Kendall wrote:Ok, did you make that intentionally confusing?

What is confusing? Hypermatter is matter with complex mass. That is, mass described by a complex number. Therefore, it isn't 1000 kg, its 1000 + 300i kg. Complex numbers are arrayed on a plane, where as real numbers are arrayed on a number line. The magnitude from the origin (0 kg, 0i kg) remains the same, but the angle from the x axis (real, positive mass) can be changed. At 90 degrees, it is the same line as the imaginary number line (y axis). Hyperdrives can alter that angle arbitrarily from 0 degrees to 90 degrees.

Mass described with real numbers is tardyonic, that is, it travels below the constant for the speed of light in a perfect vacuum (c). You are made of tardyonic matter. Your mass can be described in terms of a positive real number.

Tachyonic matter is matter that travels faster than (c). Tardyonic matter has imaginary mass. That is, its mass must be described in terms of a multiple of the square root of -1, which is i.

Tardyonic matter of 5 kg has the same magnitude from the origin on a complex number plane as 5i kg. A hyperdrive can arbitrarily go from one to the other, and therefore, transform a tardyonic matter starship into tachyons. It goes from traveling below the speed of light, to traveling above the speed of light without acclerating through the intermediate velocities. (We avoid the quandries of "what happens in the intermediate" because the transition occurs inside a Planck second.)

Tachyons circulate through the ships normally but do not contribute to the interia of the starship. Therefore they're only changed back into normal matter for annhiliation for energy at the last minute, therefore the ship does not need to worry about accelerating against the interia of its energy source in addition to the rest of its mass.

McC wrote:Where does that explanation come from, Primus?

AOTC ICS, Tech Commentaries, Mike's essay on Nathan F's website, and what we know from ROTS ICS also supports it.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:

The Cleric wrote:Sounded like technobabble to me .

See, thats the problem with StarWars Tech.. It's all fine and dandy until you actually try to explaine it. As long as you stick to simple things like "Hypermater = SuperFuel" your ok.. once you actually try to EXPLAINE Hypermatter, or how it creates its Energy, you will inevitably fall into the Trap that has sucked the Life out of StarTrek, where the Tech becomes a Bigger item then the story itself.

There's a big fucking difference, really. The schemes that Saxton came up with to explain hyperdrive and the SW ships' energy sources are sound theoretically and at least mathematically. That's a far cry from simply making up a handwavium particle every week to explain everything. Dr. Saxton is a trained astrophysicist. He does not handwave unless necessary.

Ok ok, no offense inteneded...Just stating things from a certain point of view. That, for me, StarWars worked at its best when certain Techs were left in a vague, mysterious realm, and one could focus on the story.

You are fully correct in calling to point that when StarWars DOES Try and explains things they do stick to things we understand rather then making up wholly ludicrous and absurd new explanations such as the ‘Particle of the weak’ StarTrek often did.

As for HyperMater itself, I remember reading a FanFic involving a stranded ISD that, ((Over a very long amount of time)) was able to extract tiny amounts of HyperMater fro ma BlackHole.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Ok ok, no offense inteneded...Just stating things from a certain point of view. That, for me, StarWars worked at its best when certain Techs were left in a vague, mysterious realm, and one could focus on the story.

It does. That's the difference between the novels and the reference books.

The tech still is magic, because there's no real way to change the phase angle for complex mass. That's the, "Well, it just happens" part.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Ok ok, no offense inteneded...Just stating things from a certain point of view. That, for me, StarWars worked at its best when certain Techs were left in a vague, mysterious realm, and one could focus on the story.

Yeah, I agree with you. The ICS really destroy the magical-ness of Star Wars, why can't tech manuals just focus on the story and the characters instead? Oh wait...

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Cpl Kendall wrote:2. Where does it come from?

Probably refined from exotic stellar sources. At least that's where the raw energy must be acquired. How the hypermatter is itself created is unknown.

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that it comes from Black Holes?

No, IIRC, it was the AotC ICS that mentioned the gravitic knots used in repulsorlift engines originated from black hole harvesting.

Making mathematical sense without any conceivable physical mechanism is actually pretty much a wondrous achievement when compared to most sci-fi.

Darth Wong wrote:Making mathematical sense without any conceivable physical mechanism is actually pretty much a wondrous achievement when compared to most sci-fi.

How did I do on the explanation?

How did I do on the explanation?

Rather well.

Star Wars manages to get one thing right. They say "Here's basically what hypermatter is." They tie the idea of hyperspace, the hyperdrive, and power generation into a unifying theme. There is JUST enough explanation to say "Huh, that makes sense, more or less."

I want to pop an idea out on the board. What happens to the conservation laws when hypermatter changes form. For example...

A star destroyer with some real mass M in it's reactor changes a significant proportion of it's mass into complex. Where does the kinetic energy of the fuel go? Does the ship accelerate? Or does the fuel retain kinetic energy, to be added to the ship as it's converted to real mass again?

Or alternately, a large amount of hypermatter is converted to a complex form -- the destroyer hypers from the rim to the core -- and then the matter is converted back. What happens to the gravitational potential change in energy?

Of course I know very little about complex rest mass and gravitation, so my second point might be moot. I'm not sure, but it's twisting my brain thinking about it.