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Who is more incomptent for they were both killed by Lord Vader for there incomptenicy!!!

Ozzel. Needa had the guts to face Vader after losing Solo, knowing full well how Vader treats failure. Besides, losing Solo was a temporary setback, while tipping off the Rebels at Hoth could have cost the entire battle.

Needa wasn't incompetent, Solo was just plain better and there's no shame in that.

Ozzel, he made a genuine screw up na d cost the Empire the potential for a much more decisive voctory. His screw up robbed the Empire of that.

Needa was just suckered by a brilliant ploy on Han's part.

Ozzel by far, Needa just got unlucky.

Needa wasn't incompetant at all. If you had a someone make a kamikaze-style rush on your bridge and disappeared, would your first words be "Track them, they may come around for another pass" or would you bark something random like "psycho!"

As a result, there's no contest.

No contest, Ozzel. However his mistake was not that great. Surprise had already been lost when the fleet arrived and the shield was almost surely raised.

Ozzel was less competent. Incidentally, we also hear of prior mistakes on his part. With Needa, we hear about no such incidents. He is killed merely for making a mistake that even fools Jango Fett. The only person who is not fooled is Boba Fett--and he had seen such a tactic, before.

Vader.

Ozzell.

Vader!

Consequences wrote:Vader.

consequences wrote:Vader!

OK, you can shut up now.

You know, for someone who annihilates those who irritate him, you irritate way too easily for the safety of mankind.

And you're starting to look like a juicy target. There's no need to say the same thing every other post. Especially when it's one word long and not a poll option.

I'm sorry, Its just Vader struck me as the worst sort of commander for the morale of his troops. Morale leads to motivation. Motivation leads to iniative. Initiative leads to not sitting around afraid to do the wrong thing while the Millenium Falcon flies away. Not sitting around leads to the Empire surviving. Vader did more damage to the effective functioning of Death Squadron than Rebel Psychological Warfare Operatives could have ever dreamed of achieving.

That's very true. You should have said that earlier instead of chirping "Vader! Vader!" like a parrot.

Vader's record speaks for itself. And if we include EU sources, Rogue Squadron book 2, Wedge's Gamble to be specific, we find that entire families were killed for one moments screwup by one man.
And Whoa wasn't exactly the most insightful comment to make about Sheppard's wierdness.
Has anyone ever told you you really need to relax?

consequences wrote:Vader's record speaks for itself. And if we include EU sources, Rogue Squadron book 2, Wedge's Gamble to be specific, we find that entire families were killed for one moments screwup by one man.

Shadows of the Empire is another good example, where Dash Rendar was kicked out of the Academy and banished from Coruscant when his brother crashed a frieghter. Although it's true that that was the Emperor's doing and not Vader's, birs of a feather.

And Whoa wasn't exactly the most insightful comment to make about Sheppard's wierdness.

True, but it was the only thing I could think of.

Has anyone ever told you you really need to relax?

Yes. I usually gore them for it.

In fact, now that I think about it more, Vader is entirely too much like the Commisars of the Soviet Army in WW2, of the anything less than victory is treason school. The mere presence of such an individual is an incredible insult to any professional military officer, especially when the commisar makes decisions based on ideological beliefs rather then military necessities. Vader was also incredibly unprofessional, letting his personal desires dictate the actions of his command, especially in regards to his son.

Vader wasn't really a Military commander. I always saw him as more of a motivator for the fleet. Most of the actual planning seemed to be left to the Admiral.

My point is that he was incredibly bad at motivating people. Also, since he had the authority to override any order given by the squadron commander, he was effectively in command.

Vader's constant killing of anyone who pissed him off was pissing off some of the captains of the fleet as well, to the point where they plotted to kill him. When he was standing by an airlock, they opened both the outer and inner doors simultaneously from a remote location, and he was sucked out.

They failed though, because he managed to grab the rim of the airlock and drag himself back inside.

(This info is from the EU, of course)

And Thrawn noted it tended to make a very unhapppy squadron. It makes for a very nervous and ineffectual command staff.

Why did Thrawn always see himself different than Vader when he had that tractor beam operator executed in front of his crew?

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Why did Thrawn always see himself different than Vader when he had that tractor beam operator executed in front of his crew?

Legitimate fuck up that he should have known better than to do and then lie about. Thrawn did it for a purpose, Vader did it because he was pissed off. It's discipline versus abuse.