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How powerful was the Remnant during the NJO?

I only read up to Vector Prime, but where they left off at the HOTD it was down to about 8 sectors give or take a few systems with about 200 stardestroyers. Admiral Pellaeon, in terms of strength, said that at the very least the Empire was more than a match for any pirate fleet. And the ubiqtorate base held off a NR attack, though I think the NR fleet sent in was rather small.

It contained 8 sectors, and about 8 sector fleets worth of ships. Its probable that Muunilinst, Yaga Minor (home of a Ubictorate base and shipyard), and any other major worlds also had better than average defences. I believe there is also a mention of an Executor class command ship in one of the NJO novels.

By "Destiny's Way" the Remnant has constructed a "Super Star Destroyer" presumeably of the Executor-class.

You know (and this is without any evidence to back it up) you would think that they would slowly expand once the peace was established.

By the way, is the name Imperial Remnant the offical name for the government or are they still the Galactic Empire with the 'Galactic' part left out.

Admiral Felire wrote: You know (and this is without any evidence to back it up) you would think that they would slowly expand once the peace was established.

I believe they were given some more territory after the Vong were defeated.

Admiral Felire wrote:By the way, is the name Imperial Remnant the offical name for the government or are they still the Galactic Empire with the 'Galactic' part left out.

It's the Empire. "Imperial Remant" is the New Republic slang term.

The Original Nex wrote:By "Destiny's Way" the Remnant has constructed a "Super Star Destroyer" presumeably of the Executor-class.

Or more likely they finaly recovered and refitted the Intimidator, which was found drifting near the unknown regions, which was close to their space. Of course, this new SSD never makes an apperence or even get mentioned again. At least the two NR SSD's; Lusankya and Guardian make their apperences. As well as Harbringer, the MonCal SSD equivilant.

The IR was down to 200 ISD's and around a thousand support ships of varying sizes. They lacked the infastructure to even rebuild fighters, having to go into business with pirates to get the Preybirds.

By NJO and the Vong attack on the Empire post Courscant, they hadn't appeared to change much in total numbers. The Vong threw a small force at them, the apparent bulk of the fleet was only a half dozen ISD's with a number of support vessels. Which is very strange. The IR is small enough to concentrate forces and they HAD a couple hundred ISD's. Why Peallon could only get his hands on a dozen ISD's to beat back the vong after the fall of their capital, I have no idea. Nor where that SSD was, Peallon had his flag on Chimeria still during that battle.

Best guess is that either the SSD was destroyed in that battle, moved into a strategic reserve fleet with the majority of the Imperial fleet, why only a small force was available, or had been destroyed earlier somehow or scrapped.

Admiral Felire wrote:You know (and this is without any evidence to back it up) you would think that they would slowly expand once the peace was established.

How? The borders are very clearly set in the IR - GFFA bit of space. Once the Vong were defeated. The Unknown regions are mostly claimed by the Chiss and beyond that, are hardly suitable for expansion into.

How do you propose they expand? Especialy as they are part of the GFFA now?

How? The borders are very clearly set in the IR - GFFA bit of space. Once the Vong were defeated. The Unknown regions are mostly claimed by the Chiss and beyond that, are hardly suitable for expansion into.

How do you propose they expand? Especialy as they are part of the GFFA now?

I'm talking about between the signing of the Treaty and the start of the Yuuzhan Vong War. Their is, as far as I know, a few years.

Also, the Chiss control only a small section, not even a hundred systems so it is not they who have to stop the Empire.

Plus, the Remnant territory is on the rim of Known Space, this stops expansion into the main regions of the galaxy but not into Wild Space. Their is a lot of territory. Plus, if the Empire colonizes it by using their people then they don't have to worry about loyality. Just bypass any alien worlds and colonize unihabited planets.

It could have definitly been done. The 8 sectors quote is from the book in which the treaty is signed not during the Yuuzhan Vong War.

Chris OFarrell wrote:

The Original Nex wrote:By "Destiny's Way" the Remnant has constructed a "Super Star Destroyer" presumeably of the Executor-class.

Or more likely they finaly recovered and repaired the Intimidator, which was found drifting near the unknown regions, which was close to their space. Of course, this SSD never makes and apperence or even get mentioned again. At least the two NR SSD's; Lusankya and Guardian make their apperences. As well as Harbringer, the MonCal SSD equivilant.

Intimidatior was said to be "beyond repair" and, IIRC, was demolished by the New Republic.

The IR was down to 200 ISD's and around a thousand support ships of varying sizes. They lacked the infastructure to even rebuild fighters, having to go into business with pirates to get the Preybirds.

That was when they were still at war with the New Republic. DW is about 7 years after that, in which there's a time for peace. The Empire could have recovered economically in that time.

By NJO and the Vong attack on the Empire post Courscant, they hadn't appeared to change much in total numbers. The Vong threw a small force at them, the apparent bulk of the fleet was only a half dozen ISD's with a number of support vessels. Which is very strange. The IR is small enough to concentrate forces and they HAD a couple hundred ISD's. Why Peallon could only get his hands on a dozen ISD's to beat back the vong after the fall of their capital, I have no idea. Nor where that SSD was, Peallon had his flag on Chimeria still during that battle.

Best guess is that either the SSD was destroyed in that battle, moved into a strategic reserve fleet with the majority of the Imperial fleet, why only a small force was available, or had been destroyed earlier somehow or scrapped.

It's very possible that the Stalwart in FH1 was the SSD.

Pellaeon is not required to use the SSD as his flagship, he clearly has an emotional attachment to the Chimaera, and prefers to command from her bridge.

As to the paltry nine Star Destroyers at the battle of Borosk, he sent the vast majority of the Imperial Fleet to Yaga Minor, and only brought a small task force to drive the Vong out.

The small Fleet at Coruscant was only the forces that were sent to that planet in time to catch the battle, the majority was either in Imperial Space, at Mon Calamari, or at other battle fronts.

Chris OFarrell wrote:

Admiral Felire wrote:You know (and this is without any evidence to back it up) you would think that they would slowly expand once the peace was established.

How? The borders are very clearly set in the IR - GFFA bit of space. Once the Vong were defeated. The Unknown regions are mostly claimed by the Chiss and beyond that, are hardly suitable for expansion into.

How do you propose they expand? Especialy as they are part of the GFFA now?

Their gaining of territory was one of the conditions of their joining the GFFA. The New Republic gave the Imperials worlds that the Vong had occupied near Imperial space. How many systems or sectors the Empire actually gained is unknown.

Admiral Felire wrote:

How? The borders are very clearly set in the IR - GFFA bit of space. Once the Vong were defeated. The Unknown regions are mostly claimed by the Chiss and beyond that, are hardly suitable for expansion into.

How do you propose they expand? Especialy as they are part of the GFFA now?

I'm talking about between the signing of the Treaty and the start of the Yuuzhan Vong War. Their is, as far as I know, a few years.

Also, the Chiss control only a small section, not even a hundred systems so it is not they who have to stop the Empire.

The Unknown Regions are not inhabited for a reason. They are a twisted maze of hyperspace routes, dead ends and suicidal paths. Just trying to get deep inside it was hell for even Luke and Mara using the Force to navigate. There are not that many planets suitable for habitation without huge amounts of work that would make them unprofitable in terms of resources expanded vrs their strategic worth.

Plus, the Remnant territory is on the rim of Known Space, this stops expansion into the main regions of the galaxy but not into Wild Space.

It stops expansion into ANY part of space claimed by the NR. If you look at the NJO maps, its more or less enveloped by NR space in the Galaxy and backs onto the unknown regions, known for being havens of lawbreakers, the chiss and anyone else who doesn't want to be found. And beyond that, may be claimed by the Chiss already.

The only options for the IR to expand are either to push into space already claimed by other people or into space ignored by everyone because its poor in resources and ability to support life.

The Empire is GONE. It is NOT going to expand like a phoneix and regain even a fraction of its former Glory. They have more then enough space already to really start to build up with. Their best bet would be to start an emegration program for all the people who lost their worlds in the Vong war, offer them a new home as long as they are willing to work and join the IR as Imperial Citizens. The place has gotten very alien friendly during the war, but has the good points of the New Order without most of the bad.

Admiral Bravo wrote:How powerful was the Remnant during the NJO?

It was down to 8 sectors (approx. 8000 star systems), but they had several major shipyards, and had been rebuilding non stop.

Plenty of ISD's, and even a SSD.

The Original Nex wrote:

Chris OFarrell wrote:

Admiral Felire wrote:You know (and this is without any evidence to back it up) you would think that they would slowly expand once the peace was established.

How? The borders are very clearly set in the IR - GFFA bit of space. Once the Vong were defeated. The Unknown regions are mostly claimed by the Chiss and beyond that, are hardly suitable for expansion into.

How do you propose they expand? Especialy as they are part of the GFFA now?

Their gaining of territory was one of the conditions of their joining the GFFA. The New Republic gave the Imperials worlds that the Vong had occupied near Imperial space. How many systems or sectors the Empire actually gained is unknown.

No, Peallon commented in Destinys Way that if they wanted the Empire to join the fight, gaining some NR worlds the Vong had conqured would be a good way to convince the Moffs to join up. Because they belived if they did nothing the Vong would leave them alone. Leia offereed 'no comment' then on the way home said that they would never agree to such a request and frankly they didn't need the Empire.

Then later the Vong attacked the Empire without warning anyway with a surprise attack. Smashed their fleet and blew Bastion to all hell. THEN Pealleon told the Moffs that they would join the GFFA because HE said they will, because they needed to if they were going to survive. No conditions, no agreements, just a simple agreement to join and pool forces.

Praxis wrote:

Admiral Bravo wrote:How powerful was the Remnant during the NJO?

It was down to 8 sectors (approx. 8000 star systems), but they had several major shipyards, and had been rebuilding non stop.

Plenty of ISD's, and even a SSD.

They had ONE major shipyard that was explicitly said to be unable to keep up with demand for fighters, let alone capital ships. There is no indicator that they had started a crash rebuilding program, espeicaly given the economic trouble that hit them with the opening of free trade between the NR and IR.

Unless you have a source saying they had started a crash rebuilding program...I see no evidence in the fact that they only contributed minor forces to their battles in the Vong war.

Chris OFarrell wrote:The Unknown Regions are not inhabited for a reason. They are a twisted maze of hyperspace routes, dead ends and suicidal paths. Just trying to get deep inside it was hell for even Luke and Mara using the Force to navigate.

Really? Interesting, interesting... So, someone could hide all sorts of stuff back there and it would be rather hard to find? Hmmmm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:

Chris OFarrell wrote:The Unknown Regions are not inhabited for a reason. They are a twisted maze of hyperspace routes, dead ends and suicidal paths. Just trying to get deep inside it was hell for even Luke and Mara using the Force to navigate.

Really? Interesting, interesting... So, someone could hide all sorts of stuff back there and it would be rather hard to find? Hmmmm

...WHY? There are relativly low resources to exploit as opposed to plenty in the IR space. The supply lines would be huge and long, requring enormous chunks of the Imperial Navy to guard againt attack by the hostile races in the area. For WHAT gain? If you want to build up the Imperial fleet you might as well do it at the estalbished shipyards at Yaga Minor. What is the POINT anyway? You can't possibly hope to build up some superfleet to take over the Galaxy. Your outnumbered and outmanned by HUGE amounts.

Whoa whoa whoa!

Who said anything about the Imperials? Or building a superfleet? I simply mentioned you could easily hide something in there...

Sorry. Its just that I always appear to get some insane Emipre supporter running in shouting 'THE EMPIRE SHALL RISE AGAIN!' in these threads.

My bad!

Chris OFarrell wrote:

Sorry. Its just that I always appear to get some insane Emipre supporter running in shouting 'THE EMPIRE SHALL RISE AGAIN!' in these threads.

My bad!

Its ok man no harm no foul.

Just, for a while now I have been looking for a setting to a StarWars based Fic, Wanted to tell a story where I used the Galaxy, ther Tech, and the people; but wanted to avoid all interactions with continuity, IE all the Wars.

As such, the The Unknown Regions sounds perfect for my uses

Praxis wrote:

Admiral Bravo wrote:How powerful was the Remnant during the NJO?

It was down to 8 sectors (approx. 8000 star systems), but they had several major shipyards, and had been rebuilding non stop.

Plenty of ISD's, and even a SSD.

I thought they only had 1000 systems in 8 sectors?

Chris OFarrell wrote:[

They had ONE major shipyard that was explicitly said to be unable to keep up with demand for fighters, let alone capital ships.

Note. The shipyard was noted to be too busy building/maintaining capital ships to produce starfighter.

The exact quote was:

"Have you taken even a cursory look at what we're working with here?" He gestured out the viewport at the Preybirds, disappearing now beneath the edge of the Chimaera's hull as they headed for the star destroyer's hangar. "Look at them, Captain. SoroSuub Preybirds. We're reduced toe Sorosuub Preybirds."
"There's nothing wrong with the Preybirds, sir," Ardiff said stubbornly. "They're a quite capable midsize starfighter."
"The point is that they're not being manufactured by the Empire," Pellaeon said. "They're being scrounged from who knows where -- probably some fringe pirate or mercenary gang. And they're being scrounged precisely because we're down to a single major shipyard and it can't keep up with demand for capital ships, let alone starfighters."

I take it to mean the IR had extreemly limited resources to put to production of *anything*. Given how Starfighters are a tiny resource hog compared to capital ships in production terms, I take it to mean they just don't have the production capacity (at least at this point in time) to do more then really maintain the fleet.

Though I think in Force Heritic II, when the Imperial Navy regroups at Yaga Minor, they note that there are a few capital ships in construction docks undergoing final engine tests.

They also note that the shipyard is far too small to contain the entire fleet at one time...though the 'fleet' was nowhere near 200 ISD's + thousands of support ships.

Chris OFarrell wrote:The exact quote was:

"Have you taken even a cursory look at what we're working with here?" He gestured out the viewport at the Preybirds, disappearing now beneath the edge of the Chimaera's hull as they headed for the star destroyer's hangar. "Look at them, Captain. SoroSuub Preybirds. We're reduced toe Sorosuub Preybirds."
"There's nothing wrong with the Preybirds, sir," Ardiff said stubbornly. "They're a quite capable midsize starfighter."
"The point is that they're not being manufactured by the Empire," Pellaeon said. "They're being scrounged from who knows where -- probably some fringe pirate or mercenary gang. And they're being scrounged precisely because we're down to a single major shipyard and it can't keep up with demand for capital ships, let alone starfighters."

I take it to mean the IR had extreemly limited resources to put to production of *anything*. Given how Starfighters are a tiny resource hog compared to capital ships in production terms, I take it to mean they just don't have the production capacity (at least at this point in time) to do more then really maintain the fleet.

Though I think in Force Heritic II, when the Imperial Navy regroups at Yaga Minor, they note that there are a few capital ships in construction docks undergoing final engine tests.

They also note that the shipyard is far too small to contain the entire fleet at one time...though the 'fleet' was nowhere near 200 ISD's + thousands of support ships.

Yes, but that was during the war. Before the treaty.

After the treaty, between Vision of the Future and NJO, the Empire did some serious rebuilding.

Thanks for the info. One more question, how powerful were the post-Endor warlords?