Clone army too small?

[Acclamator]

I was wondering this. It seemed rather odd, given the scale of the Republic and also some of its planets (such as Coruscant) with populations of trillions, that "250,000 units ready with a million more well on the way" would even come close to filling the role of "Grand Army of the Republic".

When you consider that on a single planet, Earth, with a population of a mere six billion, one country (China) has a standing army of 2 million.

[Sea Skimmer]

The PLA is more like 3.2 million

20,000 Theater Groups would be small for Star Wars. 200,000 troops with another million on the way shouldn't be enough to overwhelming even a single planet, even with orbital support. Freighters such as those of the Trade Federation are the minimal for hauling around realistic armies in Wars.

[pecker]

A million more 'well on the way'. The clone children are not 'well on the way'. The clone babies are not 'well on the way'. Clone teens are not 'well on the way'. That quote, IMO, refers to troops that will be combat ready in a matter of weeks or months.

[pecker]

Rereads original post

Oh, I get what you mean. You're right.

[Sea Skimmer]

A million more 'well on the way'. The clone children are not 'well on the way'. The clone babies are not 'well on the way'. Clone teens are not 'well on the way'. That quote, IMO, refers to troops that will be combat ready in a matter of weeks or months.

Even a million a day would be damn small. And with a single driod production line building what was it, over a quarter million driod's per day? They would be in deep shit if they lost their air support.

[Master of Ossus]

The "units" referred to are probably not individual soldiers. It is unclear how big a "unit" is, but it may conceivably be anywhere from a squad or a platoon on up to a division. I would say it is likely that a "unit" is a platoon or a company.

[neoolong]

Without knowing the unit size you can't gauge how many were made. You could try counting all the clones to get a number for how many were seen. That could be more than 250,000 which means a unit does not equal one man. Good Luck.

Just wondering but how is Palpatine going to explain that he could pull together even this large of an army so soon after the Military Creation Act? This includes training, weaponry, troop transports, assorted other vehicles, etc. The army must have obviously been in production well before the act was even ratified.

[Master of Ossus]

Without knowing the unit size you can't gauge how many were made. You could try counting all the clones to get a number for how many were seen. That could be more than 250,000 which means a unit does not equal one man. Good Luck.

Just wondering but how is Palpatine going to explain that he could pull together even this large of an army so soon after the Military Creation Act? This includes training, weaponry, troop transports, assorted other vehicles, etc. The army must have obviously been in production well before the act was even ratified.

He'll probably just tell the truth--that Master Sifo Dyas commissioned the Clone Army years ago, without the knowledge or consent of either the Senate or the Council. The Military Creation Act was not passed, but was unnecessary because of the Chancellor's Emergency Powers.

[Joe]

The "units" referred to are probably not individual soldiers. It is unclear how big a "unit" is, but it may conceivably be anywhere from a squad or a platoon on up to a division. I would say it is likely that a "unit" is a platoon or a company.

The AoTC novelisation (which I have not read, so I cannot confirm this) is supposed to confirm that one unit equals one soldier.

[Jim Raynor]

I'm not sure about this, but I heard someone say that the AOTC novelization actually said that the 1 million units were individual soldiers. Can anyone verify if this is true or not?

Also, I don't think that the clones were the entirety, or even a large part of the Republic's military. 1 million units alone, whether they're individuals or platoons, is just too small to wage war on a galactic scale. A lot of people assumed that because the Senate was deciding whether or not to create an "Army of the Republic" that the Republic had no military before. Yet in TPM, the Trade Federation strongly believed that the Republic could easily lift their blockade of thousands of ships, should it choose to use force. It is my belief that the Old Republic had military forces, but that the vast majority of it were in the hands of planetary and territorial defense forces. The clone army was just an elite, mobile central force that could respond and lend assitance to any world under attack from Separatist forces.

[Joe]

Without knowing the unit size you can't gauge how many were made. You could try counting all the clones to get a number for how many were seen. That could be more than 250,000 which means a unit does not equal one man. Good Luck.

Just wondering but how is Palpatine going to explain that he could pull together even this large of an army so soon after the Military Creation Act? This includes training, weaponry, troop transports, assorted other vehicles, etc. The army must have obviously been in production well before the act was even ratified.

He'll probably just tell the truth--that Master Sifo Dyas commissioned the Clone Army years ago, without the knowledge or consent of either the Senate or the Council. The Military Creation Act was not passed, but was unnecessary because of the Chancellor's Emergency Powers.

More likely, he'll pin it on "Jedi warmongers" or something, since the creation of the Army can be connected to the Jedi Order easily. Perhaps he planned this all along...

[neoolong]

He'll probably just tell the truth--that Master Sifo Dyas commissioned the Clone Army years ago, without the knowledge or consent of either the Senate or the Council. The Military Creation Act was not passed, but was unnecessary because of the Chancellor's Emergency Powers.

Ok.

And people will really love the Jedi after they hear that they created a secret army without permission.

[Master of Ossus]

He'll probably just tell the truth--that Master Sifo Dyas commissioned the Clone Army years ago, without the knowledge or consent of either the Senate or the Council. The Military Creation Act was not passed, but was unnecessary because of the Chancellor's Emergency Powers.

Ok.

And people will really love the Jedi after they hear that they created a secret army without permission.

I imagine that that's his plan.

[HemlockGrey]

Was the clonemaster referring to the total troop strength, or just that particular facility?

Is there any evidence to suggest a galatic draft to bolster the clone forces?

Could Palpatine have, in his bid to centralize the Republic, begin requiring individual systems to levy forces, and loan their personal defensive fleets, much like the feudal system in medieval Europe?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Don't think there were any OTHER facilities.
I suppose clonetroopers would have been shock troops.

[Joe]

Was the clonemaster referring to the total troop strength, or just that particular facility?

Is there any evidence to suggest a galatic draft to bolster the clone forces?

Could Palpatine have, in his bid to centralize the Republic, begin requiring individual systems to levy forces, and loan their personal defensive fleets, much like the feudal system in medieval Europe?

No, because Lucas, showing just how little he knows about the continuity of the SW universe, stated in the AoTC that all of the stormtroopers were clones. So unless multiple systems were using clones, doesn't seem likely that they were levying forces.

[Sea Skimmer]

The "units" referred to are probably not individual soldiers. It is unclear how big a "unit" is, but it may conceivably be anywhere from a squad or a platoon on up to a division. I would say it is likely that a "unit" is a platoon or a company.

The AoTC novelisation (which I have not read, so I cannot confirm this) is supposed to confirm that one unit equals one soldier.

Yes it does. The line is something like "200,000 clones?" "Yes"

[Master of Ossus]

The AoTC novelisation (which I have not read, so I cannot confirm this) is supposed to confirm that one unit equals one soldier.

Yes it does. The line is something like "200,000 clones?" "Yes"

Hmmm... I don't remember it. If anyone has a quote, they could save me some time in looking it up, but I'll go check it out if no one can remember.

[HemlockGrey]

No, because Lucas, showing just how little he knows about the continuity of the SW universe, stated in the AoTC that all of the stormtroopers were clones. So unless multiple systems were using clones, doesn't seem likely that they were levying forces.

That doesn't exclude levying. It's unlikely the levies were all killed, but Palpatine, knowning that they would be more loyal to their home systems rather than to him, might have disbanded them at the end.

[Raptor 597]

The AoTC novelisation (which I have not read, so I cannot confirm this) is supposed to confirm that one unit equals one soldier.

Yes it does. The line is something like "200,000 clones?" "Yes"

Hmmm... I don't remember it. If anyone has a quote, they could save me some time in looking it up, but I'll go check it out if no one can remember.

Yes it was:"We have 200,000 units ready, and 1 million more well on the way." Anyway, I think the Battles were all miniuscle,or Palpatine directed the War in a way 1 strong Army hits a weak Army. That might explain the Lows Calculations.

[Joe]

Bah, a couple droid foundries could probably pump out 200,000 units in a couple of days. How come no one in either the EU or the production of the movies understands fleet-building?

[Illuminatus Primus]

A million more 'well on the way'. The clone children are not 'well on the way'. The clone babies are not 'well on the way'. Clone teens are not 'well on the way'. That quote, IMO, refers to troops that will be combat ready in a matter of weeks or months.

The war will be over in less then 36 months. It's too slow and you're aware.

[Ender]

Don't think there were any OTHER facilities.

Why? They could have meant just that perticular plant, not al the plants in the city, and there were multiple cities. This was a civilization wide project for the Kaminoians, remember?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Was the clonemaster referring to the total troop strength, or just that particular facility?

Is there any evidence to suggest a galatic draft to bolster the clone forces?

Could Palpatine have, in his bid to centralize the Republic, begin requiring individual systems to levy forces, and loan their personal defensive fleets, much like the feudal system in medieval Europe?

No, because Lucas, showing just how little he knows about the continuity of the SW universe, stated in the AoTC that all of the stormtroopers were clones. So unless multiple systems were using clones, doesn't seem likely that they were levying forces.

Lucas was showing himself to be an idiot. According to the novelization he closely supervised, Kamino was about to turn out 1,200,000 troops after ten years. According to the upcoming comic he approved, Kamino is about to be attacked. According to his own movie, the clones are too few, and take too many resources and have 2x life cycles.

The only acceptable conclusion is that Lucas' out-of-universe comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, given the man's reputation for inconsistency and with changing his mind.

Thus, his statement must be enterpreteted that the clonetroopers were the conceptual and inspirational parent of the stormtroopers. If we take everything literally we get a few million max 50-60 year old stormies.

Thus, if we take the common sense view and take GL w/ a grain of salt, we have Kamino and possibly a few subcontractors and other planets producing millions of units of clones. The clone vets from the original stormtrooper core. They're phased out in favor of very well and extended training-endowed recruits for average work like garrisons and manning sector groups, etc--they form the majority of stormies...your average stormie. High level of training is too lengthy and supply of recruits and training worlds is depleted in the civil war after Endor. GeNode clones are utilized in assualt fleets and black projects because it easy to hide them there and explains why they were wiped out so quickly after Endor--they form a small percentage of the stormies, your secret, elite, special stormies. The stormies are the conceptual child of the clones is the best interpretation with all info and given Lucas's stupidity on the given subject, IMHO.

[Tsyroc]

In the AotC commentary Lucas points out Jango Fett bumping his head on the door to Slave 1. He said they put that in there because he wanted to show a "link" between Jango, as the source of the clones, and the Stormtrooper who bumped his head on the Death Star. (I think this comment was a little tounge in cheek but....).


Lucas also said another interesting thing about the clones. He said that in the next film we would find out who actually placed the order for the army. This certainly makes me curious because I'd always assumed that Dooku had wacked Syfo Dias and misrepresented himself to the Kaminonans.