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In ROTJ Ackbar commands the Rebel fleet to concentrate all fire on the Executor. However isn't the SSD supposed to be able to take on the entire fleet and win? How the hell did that paltry collection of ships which only had three real cruisers take down her shields?

Cpl Kendall wrote:In ROTJ Ackbar commands the Rebel fleet to concentrate all fire on the Executor. However isn't the SSD supposed to be able to take on the entire fleet and win? How the hell did that paltry collection of ships which only had three real cruisers take down her shields?

Well, I believe they only lost shields directly around the bridge. "Sir, we've lost our bridge deflector shields," is the quote. Also, wasn't it only a temporary flicker, where the shields were down for a few seconds before they could bring them back online?

They only managed to take out the Bridge deflectors. The rest of the ship was just fine. Intensify forward firepower might have been meant to force all enemy ships to turn away from being able to fire on the sections of the shield that had failed while they worked to redirect the shield to protect the bridge again. Also appears to have been intended to try and kill all starfighters that might make a run on the bridge.

Yes but how did they manage even that? The Executor is supposed to be in a league of her own, so far above the Rebel fleet that she might as well be untouchable. Hell the Rebels had what 3-5 cruisers at Endor? how do you threaten a Star Dreadnought with three converted cruise ships a frigate and a handful of corvettes and transports?

They all concentrated their fire, as Ackbar commanded, and blew the shit out of Executor's bridge shields.

The Rebels had something like a couple dozen capital ships at Endor, as well.

Well, the rebel fleet had at least a few Home One-style cruisers and a handful of smaller km+ length ships. Also, the commando team wasn't scared at the sight of the Executor and its two escort destroyers, so the fleet was probably large enough to at least hold off the Executor itself. I don't find it too hard to believe that, by ignoring the destroyers, the rebel fleet was able to slightly damage the Executor's shielding system.

[Edit: Added "at least" to the fleet description]

And they had at least a hundred gunships, corvettes, frigates and suicide ships.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Hell the Rebels had what 3-5 cruisers at Endor?

I count at least two of the Home One variety, which are the second most powerful vessels at the battle. There were also at least seven of the smaller wingless cruisers. I'll have to get back to you concerning the winged cruisers.

Is any of that supported by the new DVD visuals? It certainly isn't by the originals.

Here's some assistance:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/misc.html#boendor

It is interesting to consider the reaction of the Tydirium crew to the sight of Executor and two star destroyers overseeing traffic near Endor. Skywalker and his companions did not panic at the prospect that Ackbar would fight these guardians, which is implicit proof that the firepower and durability of the rebel fleet (a few 3.8km Home One type ships, and half a dozen cruisers and dozens of lesser ships) compares viably with an Executor plus two destroyers.

Edit: I am a stupid bastard.

ok lets take the Yamato

it is the biggest battleship ever constructed. Now say 3 HMS Hood Battlecruisers fire on it and happen to hit the bridge. The bridge armor would be gone, correct?

They fired on the ship and overloaded one section of the ships's shield grid and it by luck allowed an out of control fighter slam into the bridge before the crew of the ship could ajust the coverage of the shields to cover the bridge again. From the film it looks like one of the engine clusters took a hit as well.

Those Com Cals had HTL so what is the big problem. They only managed to kill a 100th of the shield coverage. It does appear they were in the process of turning the ship away from that vector of attack at the time.

lets see there are 3 home ones, about 4 liberty's, 2 wingless liberty's, several Nebulon-B's, that is quite a few cruisers though at least one liberty and one home one are deathstared at the time.

Alexus wrote:Corporal, Why do want the Rebels to have such a puny fleet? Do you have unresolved issues with your sexuality which you take out on the poor Alliance to Restore the Republic?

Eh, perhaps it was all they could muster and that they didn't expect any serious resistance (remember "With the Imperial Fleet spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effort to engage us, it is relatively unprotected.")?

Numerous canon examples tell us it is the entire fleet. X-Wing Alliance, Truce at Bakura (ish), others.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Is any of that supported by the new DVD visuals? It certainly isn't by the originals.

My numbers are supported by the originals, you just have to know where to look. And about the Liberty type, there has to be at least two, bringing my count to a minimum of 11 Calamari cruisers.

Alexus wrote:Corporal, Why do want the Rebels to have such a puny fleet? Do you have unresolved issues with your sexuality which you take out on the poor Alliance to Restore the Republic?

Are you trying to be some kind of troll?

So, at least nine or ten cruisers pounding on a window about fifty metres wide with several teratons of energy a second. Along with at least a hundred other ships.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm just being nasty.

Alexus wrote:Corporal, Why do want the Rebels to have such a puny fleet? Do you have unresolved issues with your sexuality which you take out on the poor Alliance to Restore the Republic?

Hey look a troll, if your going to attack somones sexuality pick someone who isn't married. Maggot.

Isolder74 wrote: ok lets take the Yamato

it is the biggest battleship ever constructed. Now say 3 HMS Hood Battlecruisers fire on it and happen to hit the bridge. The bridge armor would be gone, correct?

Unlikely that they could hit the bridge as the Hood lacked the fire control needed for this kind of shooting but I get your point.

They fired on the ship and overloaded one section of the ships's shield grid and it by luck allowed an out of control fighter slam into the bridge before the crew of the ship could ajust the coverage of the shields to cover the bridge again. From the film it looks like one of the engine clusters took a hit as well.

Those Com Cals had HTL so what is the big problem. They only managed to kill a 100th of the shield coverage. It does appear they were in the process of turning the ship away from that vector of attack at the time.

For some strange reason I thought at first that they had taken the entire grid down. And I haven't seen ROTJ for a good 5 years so my memory is crap in this regard.

lets see there are 3 home ones, about 4 liberty's, 2 wingless liberty's, several Nebulon-B's, that is quite a few cruisers though at least one liberty and one home one are deathstared at the time.

Well I can only remember there being Home One and 2-3 others in that shot just after they take evasive action when they discover the sheild is up.

However you guys have shown that the fleet is bigger than I remember and that they only took the Executor's bridge sheilds down for a short time. So I feel alot beeter about it.

Wicked Pilot wrote:
My numbers are supported by the originals, you just have to know where to look. And about the Liberty type, there has to be at least two, bringing my count to a minimum of 11 Calamari cruisers.

11? I really need to rewatch ROTJ!

I'm sorry for attacking your sexuality. I've been fucking up a lot in the forums lately.

Edit: Damn damn damn. I'm an idiot.

Wicked Pilot wrote:

Alexus wrote:Corporal, Why do want the Rebels to have such a puny fleet? Do you have unresolved issues with your sexuality which you take out on the poor Alliance to Restore the Republic?

Are you trying to be some kind of troll?

Thats one spam thread and a personal attack in the span of one day, this one won't last long.

For some strange reason I thought at first that they had taken the entire grid down. And I haven't seen ROTJ for a good 5 years so my memory is crap in this regard.

I've made the same mistake, except for the "we've lost our bridge deflector shield" comment. The opening probably encompassed at least the upper portion of the tower, allowing not only for the A-Wing to hit the bridge, but for the strike on one of the tower globes.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Well I can only remember there being Home One and 2-3 others in that shot just after they take evasive action when they discover the sheild is up.

The opening shots aren't that great. The key scene is when the A-wing is on a collision course with the bridge. Pause the movie right after the officers duck and you'll see 7 ISDs, 7 wingless Calamaris, 2 Gallofrees, and one undeterminable, possibly another Calamari. It's at 1:59:06.

Wicked Pilot wrote:
The opening shots aren't that great. The key scene is when the A-wing is on a collision course with the bridge. Pause the movie right after the officers duck and you'll see 7 ISDs, 7 wingless Calamaris, 2 Gallofrees, and one undeterminable, possibly another Calamari. It's at 1:59:06.

OK, I'll download ROTJ and surf over to the scene.

There is a rather far out EU explanation that the rebels used some unique power crystals taken from a pirate gang, and that was what downed the Executor's shields. Can't say I like that one though..