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Whenever someone looses something or are horribly injured in SW they can pretty much replace whats lost and fix him up with cybernetics, but why aren't there any organic replacements?

Anakin could have really done better with organic replacements for his limbs atleast.


The SWU seems curiously underdeveloped in that particular area of medicine.

For Anakin, I guess we gotta go with the theory that cloned replacements parts would deteriorate at an accelerated process due to being cloned and not the original.

They are underdeveloped considering you can attach arms back down fairly successfully.

But I think they were still thinking about that sort of thing when the first movies came out so Lucas might have decided robotic parts seemed better suited.

Robotic parts do seem cooler, I mean big deal he's got a clone arm.

I'd just chalk it up to them not having the technology- a Jedi certainly wouldn't want to give up any part of themselves if they don't have to, and Palpatine certainly wouldn't settle for an apprentice whoose been made much weaker than he ever hoped if he could simply replace his droid limbs with real ones.

In any case, their droid limbs are wicked cool.

It is rather odd that they don't simply clone limbs, then attach them, should an original limb be lost.

Vympel wrote:I'd just chalk it up to them not having the technology- a Jedi certainly wouldn't want to give up any part of themselves if they don't have to, and Palpatine certainly wouldn't settle for an apprentice whoose been made much weaker than he ever hoped if he could simply replace his droid limbs with real ones.

Really. Did he really want Anakin to be at full power? So he could ... umm ... exceed his own without him even noticing and then rolling him over? This way, he keeps Darth Vader subservient.

They mention cloning organs in some EU novels, notably 'Tales of the Bounty Hunters'-- Zuckuss and 4-LOM are hunting in order to collect money in order to have a new set of lungs grown for Zuckuss. However, it is said outright that this is illegal, and a black-market activity.

I would imagine that cloning a fully functioning lim, complete with bone + marrow, muscle tissue, (i wont even get into the fine points of the hand) is a helluva lot more difficult than an organ. I would guess that one would have to clone everything separately then put it together.

Befor ATOC it was possible to say that they could replace clone limbs, but there was an cultural taboo about cloning because of the Clone Wars...shouldn't that be Droid Wars...anyway...

The still may be able to do it, normal folk, just think cloning is evil (Ref: DFR). If you for sensitive and darkside, corruption would be a problem. For the lightside, its probably a desecration of the force or something. In the SW:Republic comics Master Tholme refused to get a replacement for his crippled leg till he actually lost it, I imagine he'd feel the same way about a clone leg.

No, there has to be some Force-related reason. Boba Fett post-ROTJ got a clone replacement for a diseased leg and there was no fuss. Its probably cheaper and quicker to go bionic, which is why Luke did in a time of war.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Its probably cheaper and quicker to go bionic, which is why Luke did in a time of war.

That's probably it if you ask me. Unless you've got ridiculously advanced biotech growing a new limb will take time, whereas prosthetics can be rolled off the assembly line much faster.
I am a little surprised the Anakin got an obviously artificial hand, instead of a natural-looking one like Luke's.

Junghalli wrote:I am a little surprised the Anakin got an obviously artificial hand, instead of a natural-looking one like Luke's.

Maybe it was just a quick "ad hoc" replacement, till he could get a natural-looking one? In the original trilogy Vader's hand seems to have the dimensions of a regular hand, not those of the sort of skeletal droid limb he had at the end of AOTC.

Junghalli wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Its probably cheaper and quicker to go bionic, which is why Luke did in a time of war.

That's probably it if you ask me. Unless you've got ridiculously advanced biotech growing a new limb will take time, whereas prosthetics can be rolled off the assembly line much faster.

So Vader remains in the shitty suit for the next twenty years just for that? That doesn't fly at all.

Junghalli wrote:I am a little surprised the Anakin got an obviously artificial hand, instead of a natural-looking one like Luke's.

For some reason when I first saw Anakins hand it struck me as not being as advanced as when Luke got his hand done. Almost like Anakin's hand was version one and then Lukes after some technological catch up was like version three or four. (as example)

Probably isn't right but thats how I saw it.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote: Really. Did he really want Anakin to be at full power? So he could ... umm ... exceed his own without him even noticing and then rolling him over? This way, he keeps Darth Vader subservient.

Yes, he really wanted him at full power. Trust me, I've read the RotS novelization, the script, and I am so unbelievably right that the very heavens shine their light of truth down upon me. Palpatine's lines establish it quite clearly.

Maybe it was just a quick "ad hoc" replacement, till he could get a natural-looking one? In the original trilogy Vader's hand seems to have the dimensions of a regular hand, not those of the sort of skeletal droid limb he had at the end of AOTC.

Anakin's golden droid arm is destroyed in a Clone Wars episode. Later, we see him working on his new droid arm- much more lifelike, but still obviously robotic, unlike Luke's. That's why he keeps it under a glove in RotS.

If they can clone limbs, then it's force related, no question.

Vympel wrote:Yes, he really wanted him at full power. Trust me, I've read the RotS novelization, the script, and I am so unbelievably right that the very heavens shine their light of truth down upon me. Palpatine's lines establish it quite clearly.

Try quotes. And what is Palpy's plan for controlling him? Kill him just before it is too late?

In what way is Anakins first cyber worse than clone stuff? It's stronger, more durable, more controllable, etc.

The whole Darth Vader thing is a bit silly though: surely they could've cybered him, then over time cloned and replaced his internals until he was back at full strength. Maybe it's a Force-user religous thing, unless someone's going to say that Anakin is weaker because he's not 100% original. Maybe DV just hates himself. Maybe he doesn't see it as a weakness. Maybe it only affects things he doesn't care about, like jogging. Maybe he likes scaring people because he's so eeeeeevil and he hates his dad and noone loves him?

Palpy's plan must have been to have a couple Stormtroopers waiting with a mattress near the bottom of that shaft on the Death Star II. Unfortunately for him they were in their quarters watching Hutt porn and forgot about their mission until it was too late...

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote: Try quotes.

There's no spoilers on this thread, hence why I didn't post it.

During the fight with Yoda, he tells him "You will not stop me! Darth Vader will be more powerful than either of us!"

That's not exactly an unhappy comment on his part- he's clearly ecstatic at the idea. This is borne out in George Lucas' commentaries in the DVDs as well- Vader, reduced in power as he was, wasn't as useful to the Emperor as his son was, just as powerful (perhaps more so?) but not stricken down by horrible injuries.

The Emperor, put simply, wanted a very powerful apprentice to continue the Sith legacy. That's why Dooku was just a useless tool to be thrown away- when Grievous questions him about it, he says that his death was a necessary sacrifice so he could get an apprentice both "younger" and "more powerful"

As for how Palpatine planned to control Anakin- simply put, he trusts him. Mace Windu has this revelation during their fight.

There's more, but I'm not at home. I will say this- Palpatine did not find Vader's injuries a fortuitous occurence. Period.

Stark wrote:In what way is Anakins first cyber worse than clone stuff? It's stronger, more durable, more controllable, etc.

The whole Darth Vader thing is a bit silly though: surely they could've cybered him, then over time cloned and replaced his internals until he was back at full strength. Maybe it's a Force-user religous thing, unless someone's going to say that Anakin is weaker because he's not 100% original. Maybe DV just hates himself. Maybe he doesn't see it as a weakness. Maybe it only affects things he doesn't care about, like jogging. Maybe he likes scaring people because he's so eeeeeevil and he hates his dad and noone loves him?

I assure you, if DV could've gotten his power back in that route, he would've. The novelization is very explicit at how he's feeling when he wakes up after his injuries. This is also borne out by the commentaries- he wants Luke's help to overthrow the Emperor because he's not powerful enough to do it himself.

It made me think though, even though entire limbs being replaced are bad for a force user, what about integrating cybernetics in the limbs, and say slaving combat computers to the brain(such as with grievous) and upgrading biological nerves and such?

Lord Nyax as a child had an implant that gave him incredible focus, which helped him learn to control the force very quickly and with great power, for example.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Junghalli wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Its probably cheaper and quicker to go bionic, which is why Luke did in a time of war.

That's probably it if you ask me. Unless you've got ridiculously advanced biotech growing a new limb will take time, whereas prosthetics can be rolled off the assembly line much faster.

So Vader remains in the shitty suit for the next twenty years just for that? That doesn't fly at all.

Well clearly the suit isn't that shitty but it's not as good as force powered organics, though better than normal organics I would say.

Vympel wrote:I assure you, if DV could've gotten his power back in that route, he would've. The novelization is very explicit at how he's feeling when he wakes up after his injuries. This is also borne out by the commentaries- he wants Luke's help to overthrow the Emperor because he's not powerful enough to do it himself.

Is he less powerful in a Force-user sense, or less powerful in a crippled, ruined lungs, stiff neck and shoulders sense?

I haven't read the novelisation, so is it possible that he's simply had a breakdown? He was incredibly arrogant, then his best friend left him to die, and then he woke up a hideous half-man, unable to survive without mechanical support. That's a huge comedown, and perhaps he was never able to psycologically come to terms with his injuries?

My problem with the 'weaker because of his injuries' = 'weaker because of cyber' is that he already had lost an arm, Luke lost a hand, etc, and noone said 'shit, you're down 10% Force interaction' or 'oh my, the midiclorians are moving out in droves'. I'm not being argumentative, I'm just not sure I understand.

Stark wrote:I haven't read the novelisation, so is it possible that he's simply had a breakdown? He was incredibly arrogant, then his best friend left him to die, and then he woke up a hideous half-man, unable to survive without mechanical support. That's a huge comedown, and perhaps he was never able to psycologically come to terms with his injuries?

Seeing that he didn't give two shits about Obi-Wan as a friend anymore I don't think that part applies.

[quote="Vympel"]As for how Palpatine planned to control Anakin- simply put, he trusts him. Mace Windu has this revelation during their fight.

SPOILER ALERT
Palpy trusts him? A Sith can do that? Oh, how misplaced that sentiment is, considering the end!!! He then does the same with his son, and gets snookered ... again.