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What leaked plot developments before TPM came out about the prequels or even preconceived notions about the prequels you wish had been depicted in the prequels?

For me, I always loved the rumored love triangle between Obi Wan/Anakin/PAdme. I thought it would have been fantastic to see that kind of tension on the screen, it would have added depth to the character development especially between Anakin and Obi Wan and would have added a real edge to their final duel in ROTS. It also would have dove tailed nicely with the mirrored plot developments in the PT and the OT. The Han/Luke/Leia triangle would have been repeated in the Anakin/Obi Wan/Padme triangle. In the end Padme chooses Anakin, in fact it could have been a better way of handling that awkward assed Love Pledge in AOTC. It would have represented Padme making her choice just as Leia did in ESB. But the residual jealousy and suspicion would have tainted Anakin in ROTS and been a factor in his turning if Palpy for instance insinuated the children were Obi Wan's and not Anakin's.

I also would have loved to have Anakin as an adult from the get go. The PT is seriously missing a roguish character and once again creating a repeating cycle between this trilogy and the OT Anakin could have been a Han Soloish character, perhaps when trying to get the Queen off Naboo they need to hire a rogue pilot, the best in the galaxy to run the blockade, in comes Anakin whom Qui Gon is amazed at how powerful the Force is with him.

Any of your pet ideas you wish you had seen in the PT?

Once again please fucking please no ROTS spoilers.

Stravo wrote:For me, I always loved the rumored love triangle between Obi Wan/Anakin/PAdme.

I think you mean "Obi-Wan/Padme/Anakin." There's quite enough of the other kind going on in those slash fiction things...

I wanted the one about Palpy having a hand in Anakin's creation being true. It would be amusing, and ironic that his creation would be the one to off him. It might also explain how he keeps trusting Luke (his grandson in that case) to the point of being totally moronic.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:I wanted the one about Palpy having a hand in Anakin's creation being true. It would be amusing, and ironic that his creation would be the one to off him. It might also explain how he keeps trusting Luke (his grandson in that case) to the point of being totally moronic.

God, no.

Let's see the chain of events here...

Palps chooses a random slave woman on a backwater world and produces an immaculate conception upon her.

Then from there, either by happenstance or design, Qui-Gonn and company happen to be on the run and have to stop over at Tatooine nine years later and stumble across the kid...

Too far-fetched for my tastes.

Petrosjko wrote:Then from there, either by happenstance or design, Qui-Gonn and company happen to be on the run and have to stop over at Tatooine nine years later and stumble across the kid...

Too far-fetched for my tastes.

As opposed to the "Chosen One" randomly being the kid they run into at under those circumstances?

Either way it was pretty much the will of the Force that had them meet. Have Palpatine have seen it in a vision that this would work, or something, and it would work just as well as the current version, I think.

The only problems would be that it would seem like such a rehash of the OT's big plot twist, and it would solitify further the 'small galaxy' theme that keeps building.

Palpatine being involved in Anakin's birth in any way just strikes me as stupid.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Palpatine being involved in Anakin's birth in any way just strikes me as stupid.

Emperor: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your grandfather.

Luke: He t-uh...wait, you're right. He didn't.

Emperor: ....*I* am your grandfather!

Stravo wrote:I also would have loved to have Anakin as an adult from the get go. The PT is seriously missing a roguish characterand once again creating a repeating cycle between this trilogy and the OT Anakin could have been a Han Soloish character, perhaps when trying to get the Queen off Naboo they need to hire a rogue pilot, the best in the galaxy to run the blockade, in comes Anakin whom Qui Gon is amazed at how powerful the Force is with him.

Everyone says this, but I'm not convinced. People say they want a roguish character, but I suspect what they REALLY want is Harrison Ford.

My preconceived notions of the PT were that Anakin and Obi-wan meet as equals, hence the friendship that grows between them, and why ultimately the training Obi-wan gives Anakin fails. Mentoring someone comes from a position of seniority, you know more than they do and so you pass on your knowledge in a paternal way. If Anakin considers them equal this kind of condescension would annoy him; if he begins to suspect he's a lot more powerful than Obi-wan, then it becomes intolerable.

I was expecting and hoping for more from the Clone Wars. I hate the stupid cartoons because they struck me as cliche-ridden and full of idiotic ideas (Mace Windu - Super-Jedi). I was hoping the movies would cover the Clone Wars, but no. Instead we get... Naboo and battledroids. And Gungans.

Stofsk wrote:Everyone says this, but I'm not convinced. People say they want a roguish character, but I suspect what they REALLY want is Harrison Ford.

Not so. I would've been happy with an Atton-style character. (KOTOR II, for those who are wondering.)

Somebody who can poke holes in the general atmosphere of pretension and melodrama, essentially. The PT is full of that mood, and the only break from it is in cheap comedy relief from annoying comic-bit characters like Jar Jar and C-3PO.

The PT didn't need a roguish character or Han Solo MK2, what it needed was a down-to-earth, no-bullshit character, to offset Padme's lofty goals and Obi-wan's austere presence. Someone who could essentially cut to the heart of the matter and stay 'grounded'. I suppose it would be ironic if it were Anakin who was like that (he still is, in a way: he has real emotions, he cares and misses his mum, he goes insane when she's killed and seeks retribution).

A reoccurning 'bad guy' other than Sidious. He's too much in the shadows, too much of a Machiavelian character. While his presence is essential, we need just one stand up bad dude for the PT. Dooku sort of fullfills this role, RotS not withstanding, but we needed him throught the trilogy.

As much as I loved Maul, it would have been better if (assuming we keep TPM, AotC and RotS as is and only change this one little detail) Dooku was the one who slayed his old Padawan (Qui-Gon), Obi-Wan had to retreat because he couldn't overcome Dooku in TPM. Anakin, who was beginning his training under Qui-Gon - is now Obi-Wan's responsibility.

AotC happens pretty much the way it did, but with Anakin hating Dooku so much more for Qui-Gon's death, and the maiming he still delivers to Obi-Wan (the sequence would need to be changed a little, so that Anakin basically arrives just in time to rescue Obi-Wan from Dooku who was about to slaughter him, rather than Anakin getting punk'd by Dooku at the beginning).

Which would bring us to RotS - which I won't comment on for Stravo's benefit. But Anakin's hatred for Dooku would have been far more established and Anakin's power, and his relationship with Obi-Wan as mentioned in the OT 'dear friend' would have been solidified.

thats what I think has been the main problem with the new series. no bad guy.

I mean, you have palpy, hiding in the shadows, but maul has 2 scenes, dooku has maybe 3, and they dont have that 'evil' that vader has. phantom menace, there isnt really any villians you love to hate.

Show, don't tell, when it comes to the Clone Wars.

Basically I could see happening more along the lines of the AOTC is the first movie, and then Episode II would focus on the wars themselves (as much fun as the cartoon and games could be, I hate having this much meat of the story told in secondary materials, see the Matrix), then we get Episode III as ROTS. Lot more potential for action and thrills.

Sure Episode I has its place, but it sure could have been a lot cooler this way. Oh well..

I thought Obi-Wan's investigation into the clone army could have been a LOT more intricate and involved. I would have loved to see him go to Kuat Drive Yards, for example, to investigate who was ordering the massive build up and where the crews were coming from (or where new ships were getting sent to, for that matter).

I would have loved to see a young captain Solo in Imperial uniform harassing some jedi for credentials, or arresting a senator, or something along those lines.

I was also hoping for an elaborate coronation scene for Palpatine, either at the end of Episode III or at the beginning. I think it would have been a great hook to have Anakin take an oath of loyalty to Palpatine in front of the Jedi Order. The Jedis would have promptly undressed Anakin and drummed him right out of the order, and the friction between the Order and Anakin would cause a huge rift between Anakin and Obi Wan.

irishmick79 wrote:I thought Obi-Wan's investigation into the clone army could have been a LOT more intricate and involved. I would have loved to see him go to Kuat Drive Yards, for example, to investigate who was ordering the massive build up and where the crews were coming from (or where new ships were getting sent to, for that matter).

I would have loved to see a young captain Solo in Imperial uniform harassing some jedi for credentials, or arresting a senator, or something along those lines.

I was also hoping for an elaborate coronation scene for Palpatine, either at the end of Episode III or at the beginning. I think it would have been a great hook to have Anakin take an oath of loyalty to Palpatine in front of the Jedi Order. The Jedis would have promptly undressed Anakin and drummed him right out of the order, and the friction between the Order and Anakin would cause a huge rift between Anakin and Obi Wan.

I like that, CSI: Kuat. Seriously, though, the investigation could have been better. Officer Solo wouldn't work, because Han isn't THAT much older than Luke.

TPM - Anakin is at least a teenager, and beyond winning a podrace, he doesn't do any other cool stuff (IE no 9 year old blowing up droid control ship through deus ex machina.) Rather, have Jedi intervention with whatever Naval forces Palpatine could scrounge up and dispatch to deal with blockade.

Edit: Furtther minimize Jar Jar scenes. Particularily those involved in battle against Federation army.


AOTC: Screw KDY. I wanna see Corellia. Eliminate second Tattooine visit entirely. Cut out a number of the unneccesary "romance' scenes (like that romp in the flowers where Anakin falls off that dumb cattle-thingy.) Show Republic fleet in orbit around Geonosis at end.. engaging in battle with Separatist warships.

I think they should have eliminated Tatooine from the PT altogether, until the very end. Tatooine was chosen as a hiding place and was refered to as the farthest point from the bright center of the universe. It should be a place no one's heard of, not the birthplace of Anakin and a major location in four of the five films. Have Anakin be born in some other planet, and Tatooine should first be seen as Obi-Wan finds a place to go hiding with the son of Skywalker.

Anakin being older at the start and the lack of a good villain are also things I agree with. Crown's suggestion would have really helped this trilogy, I think.

The one thing I iffy about (and don't all flame me at once) is everyone saying that Anakin should have been older in TPM ... now as much as Stravo is talking about plot developments in the PT mirroring the OT, there is one that Lucas is using (I'm not going to spoil RotS, but it was referenced in AotC) that is sort of necessary to have Anakin at young age, an age where his mother is his entire world. And that is death.

The death of Luke's Aunt and Uncle at the hands of the Empire caused him to follow Obi-Wan.

Shmi's death, for Anakin, caused him to resent the Jedi Order.

Two plot points (which admittedly was played down in the OT), which is very important in the PT. I believe that Anakin as a child would have worked, if they hadn't made him that young. Instead it should have been Hayden in his early teens (like Natalie), and not Jake (the kid really couldn't act) Lloyd, because Anakin's attachment to his mother is essential. Not that I'm suggesting that Luke wasn't attached to his Uncle and Aunt, but that he was slightly more mature and able to face their death, than Anakin who was taken from his mother by the Jedi (not forcefully true), given training, sees his power rising daily, thinks he's the second coming (or first depending on whether or not there was another Jesus figure), and then suddenly he realises he is powerless to avert his mother's death.

I agree with other people in actually showing the Clone Wars though. That would have been fucking sweet.

Well for one stick with the old time line. I found out that origionally the clone wars end 35 years before ANH, three years before TPM. Old ben is 60 (which is still the only official age I can find) with timelines now placing him at 57. Anakin/Vader's age is correct, but why do they have him a child? and who cares if he is the chosen one or not? That does not seem to have any bearing on Ep 4-6. Make Anakin freighter tramp pilot who saves padme(kill the naboo aspect just make her a relative of Bail Organa's, cousin maybe?) Obi-wan just finishing his traing with Yoda meets Bails mom(queen of alderaan) and her niece(padme) who were just saved by Anakin, obi sense ani potential and offers to train him. Anakin accepts(duh) and the two become really good friends(which is why old ben actually misses anakin). And the vader/anakin transformation has to be dr. jekyll/mr. hyde, not this gradual slide into the darkside. Let us see some clonewars not just automatia blasting a few clones, longer war, more sides, clone madness!! No ships bigger then 600m long no pesudo star destroyers/walkers. The jedi need to be cooler to, more obi-wanish/yoda-ish instead of these glow stick weilding people with their collective heads in the clouds. etc.

No ships bigger then 600m long no pesudo star destroyers/walkers.

Care to explain that?

The largest ships the galactic military has should be three times the length of a naval aircraft carrier today?

Traditionally the Rendalli Dreadnaught was the biggest and badest warship around, at least until the Vic-star. Plus At-ats were supposed to be using a technology that was not wide spread and they were supposed to be the first since the at-pt.

Also if the clone wars ended 35 years before ANH like they did origionally then we have the clear timeline that old ben gave us. Clone wars, Dark times, Empire. Clone wars is a wild chaotic time with every body trying to kill everybody else, finally the economy is so ruined and the people so tired of war it finally stops. After the clone wars the utter devastation leads to the Dark times in which the galaxy goes back to barbarism and the jedi hunts begin. Then the empire is declared by palpantine and the ISDs show up and make everyone imperial bitches. The jedi a group of wandering monks are finally killed off except for Old ben and yoda. this leads us to ANH.

I'll wager it had something to do with the Dreadnaught being labeled as the biggest warship ever until the Victory... [edit: Dangit... shoulda checked around with the preview button... ]

I think there should be MORE big ships, personally. As far as I remember, the biggest ship we've seen in the PT is the TradeFed Battleship/DCS, which is less than 3.2 km across. That makes the 17.6km Executor a rather big step up...

I'd like to make on more point, if I could - and if anybody is willing to listen - most importantly I wish the Clone Wars were the Clone Wars. Not the 'Trade Federation' War. Not the 'Seperatist' War. But the fucking Clone Wars.

Yes, this, above else is where I feel Lucas dropped the ball.

Kartr_Kana wrote:Traditionally the Rendalli Dreadnaught was the biggest and badest warship around, at least until the Vic-star. Plus At-ats were supposed to be using a technology that was not wide spread and they were supposed to be the first since the at-pt.

Don't be a by-the-book EU supremecist. First of all, the Rendili Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser is outclassed by the Invincible-class dreadnought thousands of years old. Second, the galaxy is technologically static; nothing should be technologically new or unprecedented on most scale.

Kartr_Kana wrote:Also if the clone wars ended 35 years before ANH like they did origionally then we have the clear timeline that old ben gave us. Clone wars, Dark times, Empire. Clone wars is a wild chaotic time with every body trying to kill everybody else, finally the economy is so ruined and the people so tired of war it finally stops. After the clone wars the utter devastation leads to the Dark times in which the galaxy goes back to barbarism and the jedi hunts begin.

Interesting analysis. The "dark times" were implied to me and most other people to be synonymous with the Empire.

Kartr_Kana wrote:Then the empire is declared by palpantine and the ISDs show up and make everyone imperial bitches. The jedi a group of wandering monks are finally killed off except for Old ben and yoda. this leads us to ANH.

You have the tone and tendency to resemble an irrationalist EU supremecist. I recommend against the TFN-hardliner mode of thinking.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:I'll wager it had something to do with the Dreadnaught being labeled as the biggest warship ever until the Victory... [edit: Dangit... shoulda checked around with the preview button... ]

I think there should be MORE big ships, personally. As far as I remember, the biggest ship we've seen in the PT is the TradeFed Battleship/DCS, which is less than 3.2 km across. That makes the 17.6km Executor a rather big step up...

I agree. I wanted to see the full gamut from Acclamator-sized frigates to early Star Destroyers and up to proto-Executors and other enormous warships.

TPM - Less Jar Jar, Naboo Sympathizers scrounging a fleet of Capital Ships coming to the rescue. Anakin is slightly older, and instead of podracing, he races fighter-like craft. Eventually he does make it into the space battle, but instead of blowing up a droid control ship he simply racks up a good kill score. Qui Gonn and Obi Wan duel with Darth Maul and Qui Gonn dies while defending Obi Wan, who uses the Opportunity to kill Maul. Thus, Obi Wan is even further bound to honor Qui Gonns wishes about training the boy.

AOTC - The Clone Wars break out sooner in the movie, and during the film the Trade Federation BDZs Naboo, mostly exterminating the Gungans and Naboo people giving Amidala an even louder voice in the senate as she calls for the Chancellor's emergency powers. Amidala kidnapped by Count Dooku. The cloned first army consists of some ten-twenty million soldiers and pilots with several more armies on the way. Geonosis takes place when Obi-Wan and Anakin, along with clone troopers, are charged with arresting and disrupting the first meeting of the separatist council. Battle of Geonosis takes place. Duel between Obi Wan/Anakin and Dooku goes about the same, and Yoda steps in all the same as well, only a little less cheesy battlecry. The Death Star does not make an appearance but plans for a Superlaser do.