StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I don't think this was done directly in any of the other ROTS ICS threads. Anyway, as most of us know by now, there aren't any hard power figures in the ROTS ICS. Why these figures were dropped, who knows? But in any case, a few bits of information did creep in that we can use to work up some comparison points.

Ventaor-class Star Destroyer
40,000 tons of fuel per second at full power
E = mc^2
M = 40,000,000 kg (assuming metric tons)
E = 3.56x10^24 J
Max. Reactor Output: 3.56x10^24 W

Munificent-class Star Frigate
2,300 tons of fuel per second
E = 2.06x10^23 J
Max. Reactor Output: 2.06x10^23 W

Recusant-class Light Destroyer
8,600 tons of fuel per second
E = 7.73x10^23 J
Max. Reactor Output: 7.73x10^23 W

Invisible Hand - Modified Providence-class Carrier/Destroyer
12,000 tons of fuel per second
E = 1.08x10^24 J
Max. Reactor Output: 1.08x10^24 W

Porax-38 Starfighter
Each wing annihilates up to 3.1 kg of fuel per second
6.2 kg of fuel per second
E = 5.57x10^17 J
Max. Reactor Ouput: 5.57x10^17 W

I also did a comparison of the AOTC ship's power vs. shield levels to see if there were a consistant algebraic allocation ratio, but alas there was not. I may dabble in other ratios attempts later, though.

If you want visuals, I have those (click for readable version):

Direct capital ship chart


Logarithmic chart of everything with a power rating

Looks goof McC. Was there a reason that the TF Core ship was left off?

Maybe because the Core Ships power ain´t nearly as much as the whole ship put together (The Lucrehulk-class on the charts)?

Btw. it´s Munificent, not Magnificent.

So Venators can only run their powerplant at full output for a thousand seconds, or about fifteen minutes? Cool.

Lucrehulk-class huh? hadn't heard of that before. Since, the core link up with different doughnuts and such. I assumed that the bulk of the combined ships power would come from the core-section. They were freighters so a tractor-trailer analogy would seem to apply.

Are there published specs for the Lucrehulk-class?

Stark wrote:

So Venators can only run their powerplant at full output for a thousand seconds, or about fifteen minutes? Cool.

Where does that come from? I thought that they had fuel reserves for at least 1-3 hours ?

Spartan wrote:Lucrehulk-class huh? hadn't heard of that before. Since, the core link up with different doughnuts and such. I assumed that the bulk of the combined ships power would come from the core-section. They were freighters so a tractor-trailer analogy would seem to apply.

Are there published specs for the Lucrehulk-class?

I'm at work now, so I can't refer back to the ICS (which I had in my lap as I was writing the OP up), but if my memory serves me, the Lucrehulk is the core ship. The core ship page in the AOTC ICS is what lists the stats provided under the label Lucrehulk in my diagrams above.

Btw. it´s Munificent, not Magnificent.

Whoops! Sorry 'bout that.

I feel like an ass I was looking right at it in my copy of E2:ICS, and didn't even see it. Thanks McC.

W00t I totally misread the post. Ignore me, for I am blinded by the little yellow icons!

Stark wrote:So Venators can only run their powerplant at full output for a thousand seconds, or about fifteen minutes? Cool.

No, the majority of the fuel mass is stored as imaginary mass, so it does not effect the real mass quantity of the ship (40,000,000 kg, which does seem a bit low, where was this stat, Ryan?). SW ships phase shift the complex mass fuel into real mass right before annhiliating it, so they do not have to pay the inertial cost of carrying it a lot of the time, or at least not in a real mass manner.

Wh.. What do they use to store this "Imaginary Mass" and how do they carry it around?

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Wh.. What do they use to store this "Imaginary Mass" and how do they carry it around?

It circulates around the ship as a kind of ballast for hyperspace jumps. Its called hypermatter. How do they carry it? Magic. The whole energy source and hyperdrive thing only works mathematically, there's no real world way we know of to implement it. Hypermatter is just matter with mass described by a complex number.

I misread it: I thought M was the total mass, or the total fuel mass. It isn't, its just the kg equivalent of the fuel/second, that he input into his annihilation calculation.

In short, I'm a dumbass.

Stark wrote:I misread it: I thought M was the total mass, or the total fuel mass. It isn't, its just the kg equivalent of the fuel/second, that he input into his annihilation calculation.

In short, I'm a dumbass.

Realising you're dumb builds character.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

No, the majority of the fuel mass is stored as imaginary mass, so it does not effect the real mass quantity of the ship (40,000,000 kg, which does seem a bit low, where was this stat, Ryan?). SW ships phase shift the complex mass fuel into real mass right before annhiliating it, so they do not have to pay the inertial cost of carrying it a lot of the time, or at least not in a real mass manner.

Okay I'm confused is their more than one type of hypermatter?

I thought that the stuff in the hyperdense tanks was just some kind of annihilation fuel. In EP3: ICS under the invisible hand entry it says that the fluids leaking out onto the floor are laced with hypermatter. That does not sound like tachyonic behavior.

Then EP1: ICS we have hypermatter circulating through conduits in the ship. EP2: ICS says that hypermatter is tachyonic.

Airspeed is given the the ICS as well and I think it is useful for power quantification since you can calculate the drag being placed on the ship(the ship is applying an equal and opposite force) and then multiply it by the speed of light. Hence P=Fc.

The equation would be P=½cv²(Cd)AP.
P is power
c is the speed of light
v is maximum airspeed
Cd is Drag Coefficient, which'll have to be estimated
A is cross sectional surface area facing the airflow
P is air density

This gives you an idea of engine power, which is a lower limit on the maximum power of a ship's reactor.

Spartan wrote:I thought that the stuff in the hyperdense tanks was just some kind of annihilation fuel. In EP3: ICS under the invisible hand entry it says that the fluids leaking out onto the floor are laced with hypermatter. That does not sound like tachyonic behavior.

Then EP1: ICS we have hypermatter circulating through conduits in the ship. EP2: ICS says that hypermatter is tachyonic.

The hyperdense fuel silos may contain hypermatter, might not. It could be a hyperdense propellant for the engines. Hypermatter is tachyonic.

Tachyons are generally not very interactive (unless you're talking about a rather dense tachyonic warship colliding with a planet) and invisible; the "lacing" is not readily apparent.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

The hyperdense fuel silos may contain hypermatter, might not. It could be a hyperdense propellant for the engines. Hypermatter is tachyonic.

Nootice though that the Venators and Imperators have direct connections from their reactors to their Ion engines. However, many other ships and most starfighters it seems, just use the power from the reactor to ionize (ionization chambers etc.) propellent for their ion engines.

I suppose the hypermatter could just be contained within the reactor vessel itself.

Tachyons are generally not very interactive (unless you're talking about a rather dense tachyonic warship colliding with a planet) and invisible; the "lacing" is not readily apparent.

What I meant was if the hypermatter in the tanks is tachyonic , and circulating within the reactor, shouldn't it go racing out into space the moment the tank ruptures. Not pooliing around Obi-wan and Anakin's feet.

Spartan wrote:Nootice though that the Venators and Imperators have direct connections from their reactors to their Ion engines. However, many other ships and most starfighters it seems, just use the power from the reactor to ionize (ionization chambers etc.) propellent for their ion engines.

It may be prohibitive for large SW warships to have enough propellant to be driven through engines; Ender and NecronLord hypothesized that large ships convert raw energy from the reactor directly into particles which are acclerating at nigh-light speed from the engine. This theory hypothesizes that large hypermatter reserves and reactors are prohibitive aboard very small ships, and propellant also serves the purpose of carrying away the enormous waste heat that is a problem endemic to starfighters. On the other hand, it also suggests that the enormous masses of propellant necessary for large ships of much greater endurance than snubfighters is prohibitive versus simply much larger hypermatter stores and reactors.

Spartan wrote:I suppose the hypermatter could just be contained within the reactor vessel itself.

A tempting thought, especially since the Death Star lacks visible fuel tanks. In this way, SW warships would be analogous to nuclear-powered submarines.

What I meant was if the hypermatter in the tanks is tachyonic , and circulating within the reactor, shouldn't it go racing out into space the moment the tank ruptures. Not pooliing around Obi-wan and Anakin's feet.

The "fuel" is probably some minor fusion reactor reactant (note that according to AOTC ICS, hypermatter reactors are "fusion-confined" which probably means that their support mechanisms are powered by fusion) or minor ion propellant (think manouvering thrusters) and the containment vessel for the hypermatter reactor is faltering, so invisible tachyons are slipping out and passing through the spilt fusion reactor reactant or whatnot.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:(40,000,000 kg, which does seem a bit low, where was this stat, Ryan?)

Look on the Venator spread, towards the top. There's a caption that says something to the effect of "main reactor annihilates up to 40,000 tons of fuel per second." 40,000 (metric) tons = 40,000,000 kg, so 40,000,000 kg annihilated every second provides the power rating in the OP.

Why is this number low? It's the highest annihilation/power rating of any ship we have stats on...

Or was this a concern only in the context of Stark's misunderstanding?

Spartan wrote:Lucrehulk-class huh? hadn't heard of that before. Since, the core link up with different doughnuts and such. I assumed that the bulk of the combined ships power would come from the core-section. They were freighters so a tractor-trailer analogy would seem to apply.

Are there published specs for the Lucrehulk-class?

IIRC Lucrehulk is the name of the original cargo ship that TF Battleships/DCS are derived from before heavy modification. The TFBS and DCS probably maintain this class name by association (especially if the TF wants people to think they're still simple cargo vessels).

McC wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:(40,000,000 kg, which does seem a bit low, where was this stat, Ryan?)

Look on the Venator spread, towards the top. There's a caption that says something to the effect of "main reactor annihilates up to 40,000 tons of fuel per second." 40,000 (metric) tons = 40,000,000 kg, so 40,000,000 kg annihilated every second provides the power rating in the OP.

Why is this number low? It's the highest annihilation/power rating of any ship we have stats on...

Or was this a concern only in the context of Stark's misunderstanding?

The latter.

Okay, here are some more estimates on the power level of ROTS ICS starships. A lot of these are based on assumptions and "guesstimates", but they should be accurate to within a reasonable margin.

ARC-170
Max airspeed: 12 222 m/s
Cross sectional surface area: ~6 m²
Drag coefficient ~0.3
Max accleration: 26 000 m/s²

Engine Force: 549 MN
Engine Power: 1.65E17 W
Ship mass: 21 tonnes


V-Wing
Max airspeed: 14 444 m/s
Cross sectional surface area: ~4 m²
Drag coefficient ~0.3
Max acceleration: 48 000 m/s²

Engine Force: 153 MN
Engine Power: 4.6E16 W
Ship mass: 3.2 tonnes

Jedi Interceptor
Max airspeed: 4 167 m/s
Cross sectional surface area: ~5 m²
Drag coefficient ~1
Max acceleration: 52 000 m/s²

Engine Force: 43.4 MN
Engine Power: 1.3E16 W
Ship mass: 0.8 tonnes (This is low, but do consider that the Starfighter is rather bare and suppsoed to be lightweight)

Juggernaut
Based on the assumption of accelerative capabilities similar to an M1 Abrams, and a 500 tonne mass and its known top speed of 55 m/s, the Juggernaut probably has about 25 MW reactors.

Techno Union Starfighter
Max airspeed: 17 222 m/s
Cross sectional surface area: ~6 m²
Drag coefficient ~0.2
Max acceleration: 34 000 m/s²

Engine Force: 218 MN
Engine Power: 6.54E16 W
Ship mass: 6.4 tonnes

I do doubt that my estimates of the surface area and drag coefficient are accurate, however. Estimating surface area was ussually based on simply multiplying width by hieght and estimating the fraction of the ensuing rectangle that each vehicle filled. Drag coeffcient estimation was based on referencing my memory to cars and airplanes I already know the Cd's of.

This should give an idea of how powerful these vehicles are, though.

Hardy thoughs masses seem awfully light given the amount of fuel though fighters have to carry to reach high percentages of light speed. I would expect them to at least as much as modern fighter craft.

Also since the ARC-170 is hyperspace capable it should at least be on par with the Porax-38 Starfighter, they are also similar in size.

Porax-38 Starfighter
Arrow Each wing annihilates up to 3.1 kg of fuel per second
Arrow 6.2 kg of fuel per second
Arrow E = 5.57x10^17 J
Arrow Max. Reactor Ouput: 5.57x10^17 W