StarDestroyer.Net BBS

My Clone War era fanfic Twilight War is heading into the actual war now and I had a few questions regarding some details that ROTS might not answer for me or that I need addressed before I see the movie. I figure I'd gather them all here.

Do Mandalorians all have armor similar to Jango's in terms of booby traps, flame throwers, etc or are the special weapons personalized by the wearer? I realize that GL elimiated the Mandalorians from the Clone Wars but in my fic they are a viable (if dying) faction.

Is Grevious head of all the CIS militray and not Dooku? Is Dooku more of a political leader? Is it fair then to have Dooku defer to Grevious in terms of military actions and is Grevious in on the whole Sith shuffle between Dooku and Palpy (don't go too much into details just a quick summary of what he does know if anything)

Is the Republic's Officer Corps primarily Jedi by that I mean upper level officers like Generals or Admirals or is there a fair mix?

What about the CIS officer corps?

Who would you say is the strongest CIS faction interms of wealth and troops? The Trade Federation, Banking Guild, Techno Union?

Do we have any idea of Jedi casualties in the Clone Wars leading up to ROTS? I've been portaying it as fairly heavy especially among padawan and young knights? Does this jibe?

Is Dooku's homeworld under Republic Occupation? I thought I read that somehwere.

Are the Clones still solely grown on Kamino a year into the Clone War? Can I safely ignore the 1.2 million figure and start throwing around millions of clones as cannon fodder? Are the casualties on the Republic side still being mostly carried by clones?

And one final question - I've read some people state that the Jedi give Anakin special treatment because he is the Chosen One. Is that true in the sense that they really think he is. I got the impression in AOTC that they were still fairly skeptical about it. What do they expect of him then if it doesn't give away ROTS plot details.

Thanks for any help or suggestions you might offer. Also please keep in mind that I am spoiler free for ROTS so any plot details (save for the Grevious knoweing the Sith plot question) I'd like kept out of here. Most of my questions are deliberately focussed on the leading up to ROTS era so that shouldn't be a problem I hope.

Feel free to tell me "You'll find out in ROTS." Its only a montth away and some of these questions won't be important until later chapters.

IIRC, Grievous is indeed the military leader of the CIS, while Dooku is the political leader.

Are you alright with stuff from Labyrinth of Evil? This has to do with Grievous and Sidious/Palpatine.

If I read it correctly (it was late at night, so I might have misinterpreted), Grievous has no idea Palps and Sidious are one and the same. Grievous can't wait to kill Palpatine after he kidnaps him, and other things like that.

You're correct in that notion, GJ. Grievous had no idea whatsoever, and might have been purposefully left out of the loop.

Are the Clones still solely grown on Kamino a year into the Clone War? Can I safely ignore the 1.2 million figure and start throwing around millions of clones as cannon fodder? Are the casualties on the Republic side still being mostly carried by clones?

The consensus is 1.2 million ARCs and quintillions of normal troops, pilots, crew, etc.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:You're correct in that notion, GJ. Grievous had no idea whatsoever, and might have been purposefully left out of the loop.

It seems very much that way according to the toon, Chapter 25. Grievous seems to have no idea that Palpatine is Sidious, threatening him in private and all.

Is Grevious head of all the CIS militray and not Dooku? Is Dooku more of a political leader?

That's correct.

Is it fair then to have Dooku defer to Grevious in terms of military actions

It depends. Dooku does give orders to Grievous on military matters, and Grievous will obey, even if it doesn't seem especially wise.

and is Grevious in on the whole Sith shuffle between Dooku and Palpy (don't go too much into details just a quick summary of what he does know if anything)

He knows he works for Lord Sidious and that Lord Tyranus is Sidious' apprentice. He knows nothing more about it, including who Sidious actually is.

Is the Republic's Officer Corps primarily Jedi by that I mean upper level officers like Generals or Admirals or is there a fair mix?

Unknown, from my experience. The Jedi seem to lead the Grand Army, with Clone Commanders (with funny names, like Bly, Gree, Cody, Bacara) as their second-in-command, but I imagine there aren't enough Jedi to go around, so one could assume Clone Commanders in command of forces themselves. Ships, I'm unsure.

What about the CIS officer corps?

Various aliens. The CIS being a non-human organization is somewhat of a plot point.

Who would you say is the strongest CIS faction interms of wealth and troops? The Trade Federation, Banking Guild, Techno Union?

Trade Federation I think.

Do we have any idea of Jedi casualties in the Clone Wars leading up to ROTS? I've been portaying it as fairly heavy especially among padawan and young knights? Does this jibe?

Unsure. Certainly, no Council Members from AotC that I can recall have met their deaths, since they're all in RotS.

Is Dooku's homeworld under Republic Occupation? I thought I read that somehwere.

Don't know- probably.

Are the Clones still solely grown on Kamino a year into the Clone War? Can I safely ignore the 1.2 million figure and start throwing around millions of clones as cannon fodder? Are the casualties on the Republic side still being mostly carried by clones?

The 1.2 million figure is a nonsense. Ignore it- it's bein retconned.

And one final question - I've read some people state that the Jedi give Anakin special treatment because he is the Chosen One. Is that true in the sense that they really think he is. I got the impression in AOTC that they were still fairly skeptical about it. What do they expect of him then if it doesn't give away ROTS plot details.

They have no doubt he's very strong in the force. His status as "Chosen One" is another matter.

Vympel wrote:

And one final question - I've read some people state that the Jedi give Anakin special treatment because he is the Chosen One. Is that true in the sense that they really think he is. I got the impression in AOTC that they were still fairly skeptical about it. What do they expect of him then if it doesn't give away ROTS plot details.

They have no doubt he's very strong in the force. His status as "Chosen One" is another matter.

In the Clone Wars episodes we definately see a mixed judgement among the Council, it seemed to me that many members did believe him to be the Chosen One, but the movers and shakers (Such as Windu and Yoda) were still skeptical.

Captain Cyran wrote:

Vympel wrote:

And one final question - I've read some people state that the Jedi give Anakin special treatment because he is the Chosen One. Is that true in the sense that they really think he is. I got the impression in AOTC that they were still fairly skeptical about it. What do they expect of him then if it doesn't give away ROTS plot details.

They have no doubt he's very strong in the force. His status as "Chosen One" is another matter.

In the Clone Wars episodes we definately see a mixed judgement among the Council, it seemed to me that many members did believe him to be the Chosen One, but the movers and shakers (Such as Windu and Yoda) were still skeptical.

Small LoE spoiler; Everyone is slightly questioning it, including Anakin himself, but Obi-Wan still believes it.

Vympel wrote:

Who would you say is the strongest CIS faction interms of wealth and troops? The Trade Federation, Banking Guild, Techno Union?

Trade Federation I think.

It seems to me that the Trade Federation is the most powerful faction in economical and political terms, while the Techno Union is the strongest when it comes to troops (after all, according to AOTC it was the TU who supplied the Battle Droids).

Lone_Prodigy wrote:

Are the Clones still solely grown on Kamino a year into the Clone War? Can I safely ignore the 1.2 million figure and start throwing around millions of clones as cannon fodder? Are the casualties on the Republic side still being mostly carried by clones?

The consensus is 1.2 million ARCs and quintillions of normal troops, pilots, crew, etc.

Consensus, my ass. Only factor supporting quintillions is a single line from the ICS that talks about "quintillions of droids and their separatist masters" or something like that. In the other hand we have WEG's statement of 100 quadrillions for the Republic at its height and a statement from the novelization that puts the whole galactic population in the quadrillions (as in between 2 and 999):

Palpatine/page 291 wrote:"Look out there, Anakin. A trillion beings on this planet alone- in the galaxy as a whole, uncounted quadrillions- and of them all, I have chosen you, Anakin Skywalker, to be the heir to my power. To all that I am."

Emphasis mine.

So unless the Separatist fielded an army greater by orders of magnitude than the galactic civilian population (mighty unlikely, IMHO), the ICS statement either counts down to the last seeker and protocol droid or is downright wrong.

Do Mandalorians all have armor similar to Jango's in terms of booby traps, flame throwers, etc or are the special weapons personalized by the wearer? I realize that GL elimiated the Mandalorians from the Clone Wars but in my fic they are a viable (if dying) faction.

According to the comic representations of them prior to attack of the clones yes, they all have specialized armor and weapon. They seem to vary though.

You also might won't to include the fact that their are faction within the Mandalorians; their was a nasty schism over leadership that lead to them splitting into two seperate mercenary groups and engaging in open warfare against each other. You could also include the Silus he was the last living Mandalorian aside from Jango, they were good friends. Count Dooku tortured and killed Silusto find out where Jango was hiding out after the Jedi purged the last Mandalorian enclave.

Is Grevious head of all the CIS militray and not Dooku? Is Dooku more of a political leader? Is it fair then to have Dooku defer to Grevious in terms of military actions and is Grevious in on the whole Sith shuffle between Dooku and Palpy (don't go too much into details just a quick summary of what he does know if anything)

Grevious is in charge of the droid army, but he defers to Count Dooku. He also apparently has no authority over the Count's Dark Jedi, as they openly defy his orders and and treat him like an underling. In fact Ventress treatens him more than once. Since he backed down, you have to assume that he's not up to taking her in a fight, he looked scared actually.

Is the Republic's Officer Corps primarily Jedi by that I mean upper level officers like Generals or Admirals or is there a fair mix?

The Republic Definitely uses real naval officers to command it vessels and fleets. But if the battle of Rendilli is any indication the Jedi General's make all of the military decisions. To the point of overiding the decisions and advice of seasoned naval officers. I mean the Jedi are in charge of the tactical, strategic and operational; aspects of the war. No wonder the Republic is losing.

What about the CIS officer corps?

Outside of the Grevious and the dark jedi, not really. The Clone wars and Republic commando games have both Geonosian and Nemodian officers though. You might want to check out the lucasarts, because the is quite a bit of useful information about equipment and personnel that appear later in the war on the CIS side.

Who would you say is the strongest CIS faction interms of wealth and troops? The Trade Federation, Banking Guild, Techno Union?

Going by ROTS:ICS I would say the Banking Guild is the most powerful. The Bank of the Core is its only finacial rival. They also have hordes of decent destroyers.

Do we have any idea of Jedi casualties in the Clone Wars leading up to ROTS? I've been portaying it as fairly heavy especially among padawan and young knights? Does this jibe?

You definitely on track with that. The Jedi have been pissing away young Jedi in insignificant battles. In the comics padawans and young knights, are dying like flies. It's gotten to the point were their minting new masters and knights long before they're ready. Even Anakin realizes this and points it out to Obi-wan. Ofcourse, Kenobi gives him so shit about the will of the force and doing their part.

Is Dooku's homeworld under Republic Occupation? I thought I read that somewhere.

Hadn't heard of that.

Are the Clones still solely grown on Kamino a year into the Clone War? Can I safely ignore the 1.2 million figure and start throwing around millions of clones as cannon fodder? Are the casualties on the Republic side still being mostly carried by clones?

Yes their are other planets producing clones, and they number at minimum into the millions to billions. There are also quintillions of clones according to ROTS:ICS. Clones are also dying like flies. ROTS:ICS has city-worlds being BDZ'ed by Grevious, Humbarine was a city-world in the core and a founding member of the Republic. That's a easily trillions of civillain casualties right there. Grevious also release a biological agent that killed nearly every human in the Weemell sector.

That last part you might take, as Palpatine trying to drive a wedge between human and aliens; as only human's were targeted by the weapon.

And one final question - I've read some people state that the Jedi give Anakin special treatment because he is the Chosen One. Is that true in the sense that they really think he is. I got the impression in AOTC that they were still fairly skeptical about it. What do they expect of him then if it doesn't give away ROTS plot details.

Most of them believe it. Even Mace believes that he's the chosen one, he just doesn't trust Anakin to do the right thing. They cover up for Anakin to the point that Jedi Master Hett doesn't turn Anakin in after Anakin tries to kill him (he's a Tusken raider). Anakin admits the massacre to him and he basically says that they all have their darkside and that it is up to him to confess to the council. He never did.

What I find interesting about the order is its hypocritical nature. Numerous Jedi and Masters have had affairs and love interests and basically the Jedi act like it doesn't happen and don't even punish offenders when caught red handed. One has to wonder why Anakin thought he would be tossed out of the order on his ear.

Another thing is there stance on the Darkside. When Qui-lan Vos goes renagade, and beomes the primary apprentice of Count Dooku. He murders numerous people (including a Galactic Senator) and endangers the lives of many Jedi. At one point he watches a female Jedi tortured to death, and didn't bat an eye. Yet after they capture him; they decide that he only skirted the Darkside. What? Then, they make its worse by saying that if the take him back, his sins are all forgiven and can not be held against him. They immediately, involve him in their war making plans, in the mean time he has enough freedom to report back to Dooku that his plan is working.

That's pretty bad...but Opa Raciss makes it worse by telling him that he did the right thing for the mission letting that Jedi be tortured to death. Oh and he then sends Vos off to command a Republic fleet at one of the outer rim sieges. It's hard to imagine how they could make the Jedi appear more incompetent. I mean they give someone who has gone rouge and betrayed them more than once command of a fleet!

Do Mandalorians all have armor similar to Jango's in terms of booby traps, flame throwers, etc or are the special weapons personalized by the wearer? I realize that GL elimiated the Mandalorians from the Clone Wars but in my fic they are a viable (if dying) faction.

The Mandalorians of old were supposed to be able to stand against Jedi so it is very likely that they had both superb training (better than Jango, probably) and just as many nasty tricks up their sleeve. However, the Mandalorians seem to be more warriors than soldiers and so each Mandalorian probably has his own fighting style (this means that they probably have customized armours, even if they are still deadly when acting in groups).

Is Grevious head of all the CIS militray and not Dooku? Is Dooku more of a political leader? Is it fair then to have Dooku defer to Grevious in terms of military actions and is Grevious in on the whole Sith shuffle between Dooku and Palpy (don't go too much into details just a quick summary of what he does know if anything)

From the Databank.

From within the ranks of the Confederacy came General Grievous, a brilliant strategist unhindered by compassion or scruples. His lightning strikes and effective campaigns caused his reputation to grow in the eyes of a frightened Republic. To many, he eclipsed the threat posed by Count Dooku, the charismatic leader of the Confederacy's political battlefields -- Grievous was the face of the enemy.

It would seem that Grievous is, if not the supreme commander of the Separatist forces, at least the chief strategist and best known militar figure. Dooku seems to be the president of the Confederacy and thus probably can dictate Separatist estrategy, even if he has allowed those with better knowledge to lead so far.

Is the Republic's Officer Corps primarily Jedi by that I mean upper level officers like Generals or Admirals or is there a fair mix?

Not nearly enough Jedi, particularly after the Geonosis massacre. Also, Jedi seem to involve themselves more in small scale ground actions that in fleet engagements (as their abilities are more useful in the ground).

What about the CIS officer corps?

They seem to have hired a fair number of mercenaries and bounty hunters. While there is certainly a presence of the various sponsor species and corporations, Neimodians and the like seem to be militarly inept.

Who would you say is the strongest CIS faction interms of wealth and troops? The Trade Federation, Banking Guild, Techno Union?

The Trade Federation has a helluva lot of troops and probably had the largest fleet, but the Banking Guild may have greater resources (IIRC, it is the only Separatist organization to survive into the Imperial era).

Do we have any idea of Jedi casualties in the Clone Wars leading up to ROTS? I've been portaying it as fairly heavy especially among padawan and young knights? Does this jibe?

Yes. A few Jedi Masters have fallen as well (from Clone Wars cartoons). Info about this can be found in the databank.

Is Dooku's homeworld under Republic Occupation? I thought I read that somehwere.

If Serenno is a Core world, it seems likely. IIRC, the Confederacy is stronger in the Outer Rim and excluding the offensive along the Corellian Trade Spine and the attack against Coruscant, the main battles are being fought in the Mid Rim-Colonies area.

Are the Clones still solely grown on Kamino a year into the Clone War? Can I safely ignore the 1.2 million figure and start throwing around millions of clones as cannon fodder? Are the casualties on the Republic side still being mostly carried by clones?

Kamino still produced clones and the ARC kind seems to be of exclusive Kaminoan production, but at this point it is impossible for a single planet to produce that many troops. Spaarti cilinders have probably been developed by now. Clone casualties seem to be the norm still, but I have heard that some novels explore conscripts and other non-clone/droid forces in both the Republic and the Confederacy.

Spartan wrote:In fact Ventress treatens him more than once. Since he backed down, you have to assume that he's not up to taking her in a fight, he looked scared actually.

Or he doesn't want to piss Dooku off by killing his pet. Dark Rendevous doesn't paint Ventress as being that impressive. Nowhere near being able to take the combat monster Grevious has become by the time of RotS.

NecronLord wrote:

Spartan wrote:In fact Ventress treatens him more than once. Since he backed down, you have to assume that he's not up to taking her in a fight, he looked scared actually.

Or he doesn't want to piss Dooku off by killing his pet. Dark Rendevous doesn't paint Ventress as being that impressive. Nowhere near being able to take the combat monster Grevious has become by the time of RotS.

If this is the same Ventress from CW vol.1 Padawan Anakin whooped her ass. She did not strike me as particularly powerful or intimidating, She claimed to be a Sith when she was not, she was afraid of Dooku ("I sense much fear in you"), she is not skilled enough to use force lightning and she got effortlessly spanked by Dooku and sent out on her merry way to kill Anakin.

I should note that in 'Rouge's Gallery' (I think that was the name) in Clone Wars Adventures vol. 3, Grievous' test for command involved him taking on and defeating Durge and Ventress together.

Murazor wrote:

Consensus, my ass. Only factor supporting quintillions is a single line from the ICS that talks about "quintillions of droids and their separatist masters" or something like that. In the other hand we have WEG's statement of 100 quadrillions for the Republic at its height and a statement from the novelization that puts the whole galactic population in the quadrillions (as in between 2 and 999):

Context is everything. Do you think that President Bush knows the population of Washington DC, how about the US? It's not like he's in the census office or something. Secondly, this was not a military briefing, there is no reason to think that the Supreme Chancellor was trying to be accurate. He was trying to seduce Anakin after all.

The reference in ROTS:ICS is specific. Do you suggest that the clones are facing million to one odds? I agree that quintillions of clones in far to high. However, billions to trillions of clones is reasonable.

I'd also say you choice of picking WEG over ROTS:ICS is dubious. WEG materials are full of inaccuracies and its RPG material. ICS has extensive research behind them and direct involvement from Lucas film, in their creation.

The 100 quadrillions population number is absurd. You could support far more than that in far less territory than an entire spiral galaxy. Hell you could easily accommodate that many in a single sector.

That said we can't simple throw out evidence. The 100 quadrillions number, does not quantify who or what is included in that population. Most likely slave races don't count. Its also possible that there are alien races and borderline sentient life forms that aren't included.

Starvo wrote:

If this is the same Ventress from CW vol.1 Padawan Anakin whooped her ass. She did not strike me as particularly powerful or intimidating, She claimed to be a Sith when she was not, she was afraid of Dooku ("I sense much fear in you"), she is not skilled enough to use force lightning and she got effortlessly spanked by Dooku and sent out on her merry way to kill Anakin.

True she has been punked by Anakin more than once. But she has owned Qui-lan and Obi-wan more than once, along with giving Anakin that facial scar. Seeing as Grevious can't take Obi-wan let alone Anakin, I say she's could take him as well. Grevious gets wanked allot but he as Watoo would say "he'sno Jedi". Any decent Jedi could easily kill Grevious, but know thwy all insist of doing that lightsabre shit. Now if Ventress new how to cast force lightning...

No. Any decent jedi will not kill Grievous. Lord Sidious has effectively removed all their powers*. Lightsabers is about all they have now.

*Yes, that's an exxaggeration, but it gets the point across.

Spartan wrote:Context is everything. Do you think that President Bush knows the population of Washington DC, how about the US? It's not like he's in the census office or something.

1) Palpatine seems to be a tad bit smarter than Bush.
2) Yes, I think that he should know the approximative population of both Washington DC and the USA. You need the census to know the exact population, but not a number accurate within an order of magnitude.

Secondly, this was not a military briefing, there is no reason to think that the Supreme Chancellor was trying to be accurate. He was trying to seduce Anakin after all.

Approximate galactic population is general knowledge. I do not believe that Palpatine's statement is accurate down to the last fraction: I think that it is more or less accurate. And considering that he was trying to lure Anakin, if something he would have tried to inflate the numbers to appeal Anakin's ego.

The reference in ROTS:ICS is specific. Do you suggest that the clones are facing million to one odds? I agree that quintillions of clones in far to high. However, billions to trillions of clones is reasonable.

I suggest that the reference is wrong. Quintillions is just stupid considering previous figures for galactic population and the novelization. I agree that trillions and even low quadrillions is reasonable for the Galactic Republic in a state of war.

I'd also say you choice of picking WEG over ROTS:ICS is dubious. WEG materials are full of inaccuracies and its RPG material. ICS has extensive research behind them and direct involvement from Lucas film, in their creation.

It is full of inaccuracies, but the 50 million protectorates and colonies that comes along the 100 quadrillion is widely used and you cannot have one without the other. And I do not pick WEG over ICS. I pick the novelization, supported by other sources over a passing reference (that might be an errata) in ICS.

The 100 quadrillions population number is absurd. You could support far more than that in far less territory than an entire spiral galaxy. Hell you could easily accommodate that many in a single sector.

50 million systems is the highest system count granted to the Galactic Empire anywhere. That is 2 billions per system and while it seems low, the number of Tatooine like hell holes with a couple millions outnumber by a silly margin core worlds like Coruscant.

That said we can't simple throw out evidence. The 100 quadrillions number, does not quantify who or what is included in that population. Most likely slave races don't count. Its also possible that there are alien races and borderline sentient life forms that aren't included.

It is a population count of every sentient galactic inhabitant (droids excluded) for the Galactic Republic at its height. The same Republic were all alien species are considered sentient and where slavery is against the law.

Spartan wrote:Starvo wrote:

If this is the same Ventress from CW vol.1 Padawan Anakin whooped her ass. She did not strike me as particularly powerful or intimidating, She claimed to be a Sith when she was not, she was afraid of Dooku ("I sense much fear in you"), she is not skilled enough to use force lightning and she got effortlessly spanked by Dooku and sent out on her merry way to kill Anakin.

True she has been punked by Anakin more than once. But she has owned Qui-lan and Obi-wan more than once, along with giving Anakin that facial scar. Seeing as Grevious can't take Obi-wan let alone Anakin, I say she's could take him as well. Grevious gets wanked allot but he as Watoo would say "he'sno Jedi". Any decent Jedi could easily kill Grevious, but know thwy all insist of doing that lightsabre shit. Now if Ventress new how to cast force lightning...

She gave Anakin his scar? Wow. I wondered if they would explain it or just let the audience make their own assumptions on how he received the scar. Without spoilers in terms of plot is Ventress going to appear in the movie or will they leave the scar explanation for fans interested enough to follow the Clone Wars Cartoon?

Also, considering the state of medical technology aren't scars a bit medieval? I mean I don't see how a society that can rapidly grow billions of fully developed war ready clones and create cybernetic replacements of just about every limb and organ couldn't handle a little facial scar.

Murazor wrote:1) Palpatine seems to be a tad bit smarter than Bush.

Wrong. Palpatine is an utter moron. George Bush would never use himself as bait in an effort to trap Al-Quaeda.

NecronLord wrote:

Murazor wrote:1) Palpatine seems to be a tad bit smarter than Bush.

Wrong. Palpatine is an utter moron. George Bush would never use himself as bait in an effort to trap Al-Quaeda.

Ok. Palpatine is a bit smarter than Bush right until he becomes Emperor and goes all evil Overlord moron.

NecronLord wrote:No. Any decent jedi will not kill Grievous. Lord Sidious has effectively removed all their powers*. Lightsabers is about all they have now.

*Yes, that's an exxaggeration, but it gets the point across.

Ok, now I find it just writer's fiat at this point that a single force user, no matter how powerful can mute down the powers of thousands of Jedi. Clouding the vision of certain masters I can buy, muting down the power of certain council members, eh, Ok I'll buy that considering that Palpy is supposed to be the most powerful force user ever (Never having been created by the Force as Anakin was I find that claim a bit over the top but there you have it)

But the entire Jedi order? And none of the masters try to find a way to undo it. The Darkside is supposed to be equal and opposite. How the hell does one Master overcome hundreds of light side masters?

Murazor wrote:Ok. Palpatine is a bit smarter than Bush right until he becomes Emperor and goes all evil Overlord moron.

All his 'smartness' comes from the gift of his birth, namely vastly overwhelming force powers. His master plan isn't that smart really. The Jedi just run at it like lemmings, making it look smart.