Page 1 of 1

TPM novelization analysis

Posted: 2005-05-05 09:30pm
by Vympel
p.18 wrote:They knew what he was right away from his clothing, weapons, and the small, worn fighter corps insignia he wore stitched to his tunic. It was a Republic insignia. You didn't see many of those on Tatooine.
Culture: the Galactic Republic has a fighter corps.
p.19 wrote:"Flew a cruiser filled with Republic soldiers into Makem Te during its rebellion. That was a scary business. Flew Jedi Knights once upon a time, too."
Culture: The Galactic Republic also had a navy (cruisers) and its own soldiers, which it used to put down rebellions. How then to define the "Military Creation Act" of Attack of the Clones? See Sio Bibble's comment about their not being a "full-scale war" since the formation of the Republic- in all likelihood, the military forces at its command were too meagre to stand up to numbers of battle droids beyond reckoning.
p.27 wrote:In the time of Qui-Gon Jinn, ten thousand Jedi Knights in service to the Republic carries on the struggle each day of their lives in a hundred thousand different worlds spread across a galaxy so vast it could barely be comprehended.
Size and scope: the Star Wars galaxy is vast beyond comprehension, and the Jedi Knights do their duty on at least a hundred thousand different planets. Combined with the size of the Empire as given by Tarkin in A New Hope (a million systems), we have a firm lower limit on the planet's of the Galactic Republic compared to those of the Empire.
p.28 wrote:Naboo was indeed an odd choice for an action of this sort, a planet at the edge of the galaxy, not particularly important in the scheme of things.
Size and scope: Naboo is positioned on the edge of the galaxy, putting the lie to delusional claims by idiots that the Republic (and by extension the Empire) somehow only occupies a small portion in the centre.
p.57 wrote:Like all of the Jedi Knights, Obi-Wan Kenobi had been identified and claimed early from his birth parents. He no longer remembered anything of them now; the Jedi Knights had become his family. Of those, he was closest to Qui-Gon, his mentor fror more than a dozen years, who had become his most trusted friend.
Culture: the Jedi take force-capable children from their parents.

Misc: Obi-Wan has been Qui-Gon's padawan since the age of thirteen (Obi-Wan is 25 at TPM).
p. 90 wrote:The Nubian shot through the hangar doors, ripping past battle droids and laser fire, lifting away from the city of Theed into the blue, sunlit sky. The planet of Naboo was left behind in seconds.
Propulsion: nice to see a specific description of what we already knew to be canon fact (i.e. Star Wars ships can make it from takeoff to space in seconds)
p.134 wrote:The Sith had come into being almost two thousand years ago. They were a cult given over to the dark side of the Force, embracing fully the concept that power denied was power wasted. A rogue Jedi Knight had founded the Sith, a singular dissident in an order of harmonious followers, a rebel who understood from the beginning that the real power of the Force lay not in the light, but in the dark. Failing to gain approval for his beliefs from the Council, he had broken with the order, departing with his knowledge and skills, swearing in secret that he could bring down those who had dismissed him.

He was alone at first, but others from the Jedi order who believed as he did and who had followed him in his study of the dark side soon came over. Others were recruited, and soon the ranks of the Sith swelled to more than fifty in number. Disdaining the concepts of cooperation and consensus, relying on the belief that the acquisition of power in any form lends strength and yields control, the Sith began to build their cult in opposition to the Jedi. Theirs was not an order created to serve; theirs was an order created to dominate.

Their war with the Jedi was vengeful and furious and ultimately doomed. The rogue Jedi who had founded the Sith order was its nominal leader, but his ambition excluded any sharing of power. His disciples began to conspire against him and each other almost from the beginning, so that the war they instigated was as much with each other as with the Jedi.

In the end, the Sith destroyed themselves. They destroyed their leader first, then each other. What few survived the initial bloodbath were quickly dispatched by watchful Jedi. In a matter of only weeks, all of them died.

All but one.

Darth Maul shifted impatiently. The younger Sith had not yet learned his Master’s patience; that would come with time and training. It was patience that had saved the Sith order in the end. It was patience that would given them their victory now over the Jedi.

The Sith who had survived when all of his fellows had died had understood that. He had adopted patience as a virtue when the others had forsaken it. He had adopted cunning, stealth, and subterfuge as the foundation of his way- old Jedi virtues the others had disdained. He stood aside while the Sith tore at each other like kriks and were destroyed. When the carnage was complete, he went into hiding, biding his time, waiting for his chance.

When it was believed all of the Sith were destroyed, he emerged from his concealment. At first he worked alone, but he was growing old and he was the last of his kind. Eventually, he went out in search of an apprentice. Finding one, he trained him to be a Master in his turn, then to find his own apprentice, and so to carry on their work. But there would only be two at any one time. There would be no repetition of the mistakes of the old order, no struggle between the Siths warring for power within the cult. Their common enemy was the Jedi, not each other. It was for their war with the Jedi they must save themselves.

The Sith who reinvented the order called himself Darth Bane.

A thousand years had passed since the Sith were believed destroyed, and the time they had waited for had come at last.
History of the Sith.
p.268 wrote:The Gungan shield wall was designed to deflect large, slow-moving objects of density and mass such as artillery vehicles and small, fast-moving objects generating extreme heat such as projectiles from weapons fire. But it would not deflect small, slow-moving droids- even massed together in such numbers as they were here.
Shields: self-explanatory.
p.283 wrote:Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance. He had survived battles that had tested his skill and resolve in every conceivable way.

But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi-Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger. Qui-Gon was nearing sixty; his youth was behind him and his strength was beginning to diminish. His edge now, to the extent that he had one, came from his long experience and intuitive grasp of how an adversary might employ a lightsabre against him.

Obi-Wan brought youth and stamina to the combat, but he had fought in only a few contests and was not battle hardened. Together, they were able to hold their own against the Sith Lord, but their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate...

Qui-Gon had trained Obi-Wan, and while the younger Jedi was not yet his equal, he believed that one day Obi-Wan would be better than he had ever been.
The Force: older Jedi are hampered in combat by not being as young or strong (and presumably, fast) and must substitute it for experience. It also lets us know about how Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan compared to Darth Maul, as well as Qui-Gon's hopes for Obi-Wan (confirmed in RotS).

Posted: 2005-05-05 09:54pm
by Elheru Aran
So the Sith came out two thousand years ago? That plays holy hell with Exar Kun and the Sith culture, then...

Posted: 2005-05-05 09:56pm
by SCRawl
Nice work, but I noticed one possible inconsistency.

The last passage mentioned that QGJ's master had been teaching Jedi for 400+ years. AotC teaches us that QGJ studied under Count Dooku, and although he looks it, I don't think he was 400+ years old.

There is the possibility, of course, that there was more than one swordmaster who taught QGJ how to swing his pigsticker.

Posted: 2005-05-05 10:08pm
by Stark
I don't think the Master teaches them everything: RotS apparrantly has nic Gallard play a specific swordfighting Master.

Posted: 2005-05-05 10:09pm
by Elheru Aran
SCRawl wrote:Nice work, but I noticed one possible inconsistency.

The last passage mentioned that QGJ's master had been teaching Jedi for 400+ years. AotC teaches us that QGJ studied under Count Dooku, and although he looks it, I don't think he was 400+ years old.

There is the possibility, of course, that there was more than one swordmaster who taught QGJ how to swing his pigsticker.
Also, as we observed in AotC, apparently Jedi train for a while before they become Padawans, with the 'younglings' that Yoda was lecturing; and as stated in the novelization itself, Obi-wan studied a fair while before Qui-gon selected him as an apprentice. Very likely this 400-year-old Jedi was from a long-lived alien species or some such, and Dooku was Master to Qui-gon's Padawan.

Posted: 2005-05-05 11:38pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
Elheru Aran wrote:So the Sith came out two thousand years ago? That plays holy hell with Exar Kun and the Sith culture, then...
There was more than one Sith movement.

Re: TPM novelization analysis

Posted: 2005-05-05 11:55pm
by Elheru Aran
Vympel wrote:
p.134 wrote:The Sith had come into being almost two thousand years ago. They were a cult given over to the dark side of the Force, embracing fully the concept that power denied was power wasted. A rogue Jedi Knight had founded the Sith...
That implies, pretty strongly, that the Sith started with that renegade Jedi... not denying that there may have been other dark-side movements, just saying that this seems to indicate that the Sith, specifically, did not exist up to that point.

Posted: 2005-05-06 12:02am
by Spanky The Dolphin
Perhaps, but we do know of at least 3-4 other Sith movements in the past 100K years.

Posted: 2005-05-06 12:15am
by Elheru Aran
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Perhaps, but we do know of at least 3-4 other Sith movements in the past 100K years.
True. Perhaps 'Sith' is a common term used to indicate a specific type of Dark Sider, those specifically opposed to the Jedi and not just your usual gone-bad-killing-shit-doing-evil Dark Side user?

Posted: 2005-05-06 12:17am
by Utsanomiko
Hundred-thousand? I don't recall anything about Force-using orders emerging untill right before the formation of the Republic.

I really need to relocate that timeline website...

EDIT: I'm more than certain that 'Sith' specifically refers to movements directly related to the dark side arts practiced by the Jedi banished to Korriban after the Great Schism. Any other group either had their own name or are simply 'dark siders' or 'rogue Jedi'.

Posted: 2005-05-06 01:08am
by Spanky The Dolphin
Utsanomiko wrote:Hundred-thousand? I don't recall anything about Force-using orders emerging untill right before the formation of the Republic.

I really need to relocate that timeline website...

EDIT: I'm more than certain that 'Sith' specifically refers to movements directly related to the dark side arts practiced by the Jedi banished to Korriban after the Great Schism. Any other group either had their own name or are simply 'dark siders' or 'rogue Jedi'.
Nope, there are several Sith movements.

The first was the exiled Jedi/Korriban Sith that originated from the Great Schism. After arriving at Korriban this grew into the Sith Empire, which lasted until they were destroyed 5000 BBY.

The second Sith movement was the one led by Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma, which combined with the Krath from the Empress Teta System. They were defeated in the Great Sith War about 4000 BBY.

The third Sith movement was pretty much the KOTOR posses, several decades after the Great Sith War.

The fourth Sith movement was began around 2000 BBY, and eventually included Darth Bane and the like. They were nearly destroyed but went into hiding around 1000 BBY, but were then finally defeated at the Battle of Endor 4 ABY.

At least that's how I understand it.

Posted: 2005-05-06 01:43am
by Utsanomiko
There were several 'movements', yes, but one way or another they still strongly tied in with the Dark Lords of the Sith of Korriban (Exar Kun's communions with Freedon Nadd who in turn had revived Naga Sadow, Darth Bane's studies on Dxun, etc).

And I specifically hinted at getting a link to that one massive timeline you're familiar with. :P

EDIT: Ineed, I am smart enough to find it. A winner is me! *bookmarks*

Posted: 2005-05-06 01:45am
by Spanky The Dolphin
The Time Tales are on TFN, Uts.

I'll assume that you're smarter enough than the rest of these knicker-bockers to be able to find it there. :P

Posted: 2005-05-08 05:02pm
by Tychu
It could be that the Sith of 2000 years was the last time the Sith were seen in the galaxy. "But the Sith have been extinct for over a Melenia"