Ep 3 official tech discussion thread

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-19 01:36am

Things that leapt out at me on first viewing- a lot of this stuff is already known, but still:

1. The beam cannon fired from the ventral hangar of the Venator is cool.

2. ARC-170s have HUDs.

3. Buzz droids must be some kind of anti-Jedi fighter weapon. One can safely surmise that a Jedi would be able to do very little about droids crawling all over his fighter, dismantling it, as opposed to say, dodging laser blasts and ordinary missiles. They could also be a sort of area-effect weapon, one step evolved from mere mines. Just blanket the area with them.

4. Anakin destroys the hangar shield generator so they can safely land. Given what we know from TPM (impervious to fighter attack Trade Federation Battleship) and RotJ (Rebel fighters "might stand a chance" against Imperial capital ships if Rebel capital ships could knock down their shields), it is highly improbable that Anakin's fighter penetrated any shields with his weapons in destroying that generator. Either the shield in that area was down by either battle damage or by design (since it was a trap) or it was weakened substantially.

5. The safety door that slams into place after the hangar shield fails is extremely fast.

6. The Invisible Hand has ray shields used as a security measure to trap intruders.

7. Grievous bodyguards don’t care if you cut off their head. They keep on fighting. This must be due to the big red sensor on their chest, which is the same type that makes up their “eyes” on their head. This is confirmed by the RotS:VD.

8. Grievous bodyguard electro-staffs can’t be cut by lightsabres. The material is phrik, IIRC, RotS:VD. The electrified ends are the lethal part, however.

9. The Invisible Hand bridge view walls/ windows are broken by a Grievous Bodyguard electro-staff- a metal bulkhead immediately slams down to cover the broken section.

10. General Grievous can survive hard vacuum.

11. The Invisible Hand's engines: these are quite complicated. They have an emergency reverse thrust mode, and also a mode whereby hatches actually close around the aperture. I'll have to watch again, but the reverse thrust is used after it loses its slugging match with the Venator, while the second is used when Anakin is trying to crash land it safely.

12. The Invisible Hand is clearly designed for atmospheric flight, with various flaps and other devices for the purpose.

13. BARC speeders can fly as high as LAAT gunships can. They escort Mace Windu/ Obi-Wan/ Yoda’s gunship through the Coruscant skies.

14. Coruscant has massive marshalling areas where Venators land and are loaded up with supplies.

15. Obi-Wan takes a fleet of Venators with him to his mission to Utapau, not just one as the novelisation implies.

16. Grievous arms really do spin like they did in Clone Wars. Not much of an obstacle for a Jedi of Obi-Wan’s skill though. Their fight matches the novel really well.

17. In an unfortunate bit of lazyness, Grievous for some reason is equipped with a copy of Obi-Wan’s lightsabre. Perhaps Anakin’s as well.

18. Kashyyk: the Wookie technology is really unique and interesting- helicopters and the like, huge bowcaster style weapons, etc.

19. The Republic forces on Kashyyk are spectacular, where to begin? The AT-AP walkers, the huge Juggernauts, the camouflage Clonetroopers?

20. The Juggernauts can launch a lot of missiles from those twin missile launchers on the sides. They swarm the battlefield. Think Hailfire.

21. The Clonetroopers are using full size DC-15 rifles, on full auto, in long range fire from elevated positions, as well as from positions in trenches.

22. The Wookies, on the other hand, are psychos- they take the fight to the enemy, leaping on tank droids from their aircraft, etc.

23. What about the droids? They’ve learned. Their tanks spearhead the attack we see, with Battledroids riding on the sides. They have their own gunships now, but we don’t see much of them unfortunately.

24. It’s going to be a big job ticking off all the different types of Clonetroopers we see in various battles. Suffice to say they’re a great part of the movie- the way they fight on Utapau is awesome, with lots of neat little details, like calling for medical attention for a wounded man. A real treat, keep your eyes open.

25. Order 66: Palpatine’s message to the Clones is undoubtedly a recording. It is the same message, sounding exactly the same, everytime we see a Clone receive it. This is to be expected, for obvious reasons. The only time he sent it personally was to Cody, obviously because Cody is Obi-Wan’s 2IC.

25. Republic tracked tanks on Mygeeto with Ki-Adi-Mundi’s forces- watch for them.

26. Delta-7 fighters are still in service (Plo Koon gets shot down by ARC-170s while flying one).

27. We get a brief glimpse of the seeker droids deployed by Commander Cody to find Obi-Wan. They’re similar to the droids used by the Stormtroopers in ANH to search Mos Eisley.

28. The effect of Grievous’ blaster on his guts has to be seen to be believed. He is fried. Reminds me of the “flash burning his heart” quote.

29. The Tantive IV has a hangar! It must’ve been refit in the intervening 20 years.

30. Watch Padme’s skiff’s engines when she lands on Mustafar- you can see the fan blades spooling down. A nice ICS style touch there.

That’s all I can think of at the moment. Anyone got any additions?

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2005-05-19 02:30am

Wasn't fond of the shields on the side of the Invisible Hand.

1) When they got blown, the blast door closed to keep in the hangar's atmosphere. That implied to me they were just blowing the atmospheric shields.

Why blow the atmospheric shields? I wasn't aware they kept fighters from landing.

2) If they were the shield-shields... well, I don't need to explain THAT one, I don't think. Even if they were the local hangar-shields, it's still not a good place to put them. As my mate said "Of course you put them next to the hangar, so anyone trying to attack it has to make the shortest possible course correction in order to blow them..."

It also lends credence to the ISD shield globes, which is not good.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-19 02:46am

The height of the Battle of Coruscant looked like it might have been higher than Alderaan's planetary shield, and in any case restricts how low it could be, since they had to have been fighting under it.

R2 is one tough little droid, surviving getting knocked around that hangar and being roughed up by SBDs.

SBDs armour can be destroyed by spraying oil on them and setting them on fire, but we really don't know what that black shit was anyway.

The intelligence of the concussion missiles that hit each other chasing Anakin's fighter seems a bit low, compared to the impressive target tracking in AOTC.

I haven't seen STN, but based on descriptions the Invisible Hand's bridge window blast doors probably closed in comparable time to the Ent-E's bridge forcefields.

The volumetric nature of SW shields is muddled by that odd capsule of ray shielding that trapped Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I though the holographic telepresence in the Jedi Council Chamber was a nice logical application of the tech.

The 'medical capsule' that Anakin was put into when near-death appeared to be little more than a hoverbed, without even a plastic dome to help prevent infections.

The robochickens (i don't know what they're called) the clonetroopers were riding around towards the end, were pretty sweet, although their high profile makes the trooper perched on top an easier target. Still, quite agile and quick, I want one.

Dwarf Spider Tank Droids can easily walk along the bottom of a river and up out the other side.

If biology is considered squishy tech, then i might mention Obi-Wan's lizard made a very impressive leap down (a hundred meters?) without knackering it's legs at all.

Both Anakin and Obi-Wans Force powers in battle seeemd to be nerfed compared to the CW cartoon, where a droideka started blasting away at Obi-Wan and he simply raised his palm, all the bolts deflected off and he did a sweet lightsaber throw, or when Anakin is surrounded by 30 SBDs and tosses them all away in one hand-wave, and this isn't even mentioning Mace Windu.

Why couldn't Obi-Wan force push the buzz droids off his fighter? (or at least disable their innards)

Why didn't they use more Force-waving to kill all the droids on the bridge when they were brought to Grievous? In the CW cartoon Kit Fisto effotlessly tears half-a-dozen droids off their underwater vehicles simultaneously.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-19 02:51am

GuppyShark wrote:It also lends credence to the ISD shield globes, which is not good.

I don't think it does. Why do you?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-19 02:53am

GuppyShark wrote:Wasn't fond of the shields on the side of the Invisible Hand.

1) When they got blown, the blast door closed to keep in the hangar's atmosphere. That implied to me they were just blowing the atmospheric shields.

Why blow the atmospheric shields? I wasn't aware they kept fighters from landing.

Because the shields protecting the hangar bay are therefore not just atmospheric shields, but can also block physical objects, and presumably, weapons fire.

2) If they were the shield-shields... well, I don't need to explain THAT one, I don't think. Even if they were the local hangar-shields, it's still not a good place to put them.

They're obviously a local hangar shield. You see them fail. Nothing else does, and if they weren't- why wouldn't the shield be projected around the generator? It clearly wasn't, there was no evidence of shield impact when Anakin fired.

As my mate said "Of course you put them next to the hangar, so anyone trying to attack it has to make the shortest possible course correction in order to blow them..."

Yeah, it's a stupid design decision, and the Invisible Hand already has multiple vulnerable points when the shield goes down. It's bridge and tower, for example. It's quite clear that it's the shields that are the primary protection for Star Wars ships, not the hull. Armor is still a factor capitalized by the better designs though.

It also lends credence to the ISD shield globes, which is not good.

It only would "lend credence" in the minds of idiots- that issue has been done to death.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-19 02:56am

GuppyShark wrote:Wasn't fond of the shields on the side of the Invisible Hand.

1) When they got blown, the blast door closed to keep in the hangar's atmosphere. That implied to me they were just blowing the atmospheric shields.

Why blow the atmospheric shields? I wasn't aware they kept fighters from landing.

Perhaps their power can be boosted to block solid objects too, as a last line of defense measure. OTOH IIRC the TPM droid battleship's hangar shields were directional, so maybe they were just set to only allow fighters to launch.

2) If they were the shield-shields... well, I don't need to explain THAT one, I don't think. Even if they were the local hangar-shields, it's still not a good place to put them. As my mate said "Of course you put them next to the hangar, so anyone trying to attack it has to make the shortest possible course correction in order to blow them..."

It also lends credence to the ISD shield globes, which is not good.

They definitely looked more like simple hangar shields than the actual shields, and i don't recall Anakin hitting any big structure analogous to the ISD globes to down them, so if he did hit the projector(s) it only goes to show that they do not have to be big exposed globes.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-19 03:04am

Winston Blake wrote: SBDs armour can be destroyed by spraying oil on them and setting them on fire, but we really don't know what that black shit was anyway.

Its to be expected- the oil probably leaked into every nook and cranny on them and fucked them up badly- especially their flexible midsection.

The intelligence of the concussion missiles that hit each other chasing Anakin's fighter seems a bit low, compared to the impressive target tracking in AOTC.

Having missiles being aware of other missiles launched at the same target seems a bit excessive- especially when the payload is buzzdroids rather than say a warhead.

I haven't seen STN, but based on descriptions the Invisible Hand's bridge window blast doors probably closed in comparable time to the Ent-E's bridge forcefields.

IMO it was quicker, Obi-Wan and Anakin weren't grabbing on nearly as long as they were in STN, IIRC. I'd have to check both again.

The volumetric nature of SW shields is muddled by that odd capsule of ray shielding that trapped Anakin and Obi-Wan.

How do you mean? It's yet another type of SW shield- damn there are so many.

The 'medical capsule' that Anakin was put into when near-death appeared to be little more than a hoverbed, without even a plastic dome to help prevent infections.

Hmm? It was a glass case, what does he need a plastic dome for?

The robochickens (i don't know what they're called) the clonetroopers were riding around towards the end, were pretty sweet, although their high profile makes the trooper perched on top an easier target. Still, quite agile and quick, I want one.

AT-RTs. Considering speeder bikes were in service as well, I'd say that they have combat vehicle types of all types for their different classes of vehicles- grounded, walker, repulsor.

Dwarf Spider Tank Droids can easily walk along the bottom of a river and up out the other side.

Good observation, forgot that one.

Both Anakin and Obi-Wans Force powers in battle seeemd to be nerfed compared to the CW cartoon, where a droideka started blasting away at Obi-Wan and he simply raised his palm, all the bolts deflected off and he did a sweet lightsaber throw, or when Anakin is surrounded by 30 SBDs and tosses them all away in one hand-wave, and this isn't even mentioning Mace Windu.

As I've said, the Clone Wars cartoon is an over the top *cartoon*, not an accurate "direct observation" account of what happened in the relevant time period.

Why couldn't Obi-Wan force push the buzz droids off his fighter? (or at least disable their innards)

Good question. He wasn't thinking I'd say.

Why didn't they use more Force-waving to kill all the droids on the bridge when they were brought to Grievous? In the CW cartoon Kit Fisto effotlessly tears half-a-dozen droids off their underwater vehicles simultaneously.

See above about Clone Wars- Obi-Wan and Qui Gon only seemed to bother with force push when there were mutliple targets coming at them rather than one.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2005-05-19 03:20am

What I liked about the Grevious duel was that as soon as the clone troopers arrived to occupy the droids around them, Obi-Wan stopped duelling Grevious and just force-pushed his ass.

Nice one Obi! Using Grevious' own desire for single combat to prevent yourself getting ventilated by the massed droid forces... and then showing him why Jedi pwn.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-19 03:36am

Vympel wrote:
The volumetric nature of SW shields is muddled by that odd capsule of ray shielding that trapped Anakin and Obi-Wan.
How do you mean? It's yet another type of SW shield- damn there are so many.

Well in this case the visible plane-like part of the shield can't just be a boundary of a volumetric shield since they were standing right inside it. It must be more like the hangar-shields or canopy-shields than the usual kind. Nice anti-boarder measure though, but i'd figure that against jedi they could just rip the projectors out of the ceiling/floor with the Force (that is, if they didn't want to be captured on purpose, of course).

The 'medical capsule' that Anakin was put into when near-death appeared to be little more than a hoverbed, without even a plastic dome to help prevent infections.
Hmm? It was a glass case, what does he need a plastic dome for?

It was? Oh ok then. I just remember thinking "a medical capsule must be some mobile bacta tank they're going to float him in" and then he's just hovering along.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-05-19 03:43am

Vympel wrote:Hmm? It was a glass case, what does he need a plastic dome for?

It wasn't covered. It was an open case. When the entourage arrives and it's raining, the rain actually hits Vader's burned body.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2005-05-19 04:00am

Winston Blake wrote:Both Anakin and Obi-Wans Force powers in battle seeemd to be nerfed compared to the CW cartoon, where a droideka started blasting away at Obi-Wan and he simply raised his palm, all the bolts deflected off and he did a sweet lightsaber throw, or when Anakin is surrounded by 30 SBDs and tosses them all away in one hand-wave, and this isn't even mentioning Mace Windu.

Why couldn't Obi-Wan force push the buzz droids off his fighter? (or at least disable their innards)

Why didn't they use more Force-waving to kill all the droids on the bridge when they were brought to Grievous? In the CW cartoon Kit Fisto effotlessly tears half-a-dozen droids off their underwater vehicles simultaneously.

First off the cartoon seemed to give all the Jedi the uber powers that were way exagerated.
second, why did he not use the force push? because he was busy trying not to crach his ship. Seriously, a Jedi has to concentrate to use the force and he was concentrating on flying.
and again the cartoon exagerated the Jedi beyond their powers shown in the movies.
because if we used the cartoon, then why did Mace not fly away when the Emperor flung him out the window?

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-19 04:11am

Death from the Sea wrote:First off the cartoon seemed to give all the Jedi the uber powers that were way exagerated.
second, why did he not use the force push? because he was busy trying not to crach his ship. Seriously, a Jedi has to concentrate to use the force and he was concentrating on flying.
and again the cartoon exagerated the Jedi beyond their powers shown in the movies.
because if we used the cartoon, then why did Mace not fly away when the Emperor flung him out the window?

I accept the inaccuracy of the cartoon now, but at the time i figured it was because Mace was totally assholed from the force lightning.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2005-05-19 04:56am

What was up with the artificial gravity on the Invisible Hand? I suppose shipboard gravity was down from heavy damage to the ship, and so its passengers were experiencing Coruscant's gravity, but it seemed a bit high up for there to be that much gravity.

Oh, and Artoo is the greatest battledroid ever.

Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2005-05-19 05:02am

Anyone have any comments on the atmospheric re-entry? It seemed like that ship was getting torn apart by the "simple" friction of the atmosphere. It's armor must have been strong enough to prevent damage from that if it can take GT bursts. The only reason that I could come up with was that there were already hull breaches in the ship. The friction from the drag went through these breaches and did damage to the interior of the ship, which couldn't withstand the heat. That's really the only explanation I could come up with.

Basically, do you think that an undamaged Invisible Hand would have been able to go into the atmosphere unshielded, at that speed, without sustaining damage? It would almost have to be able to in order to take TL fire when the shields are down, right?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-19 05:26am

Anyone have any comments on the atmospheric re-entry? It seemed like that ship was getting torn apart by the "simple" friction of the atmosphere.

It broke in half, but that was due to battle damage, not simple atmospheric re-entry. The ship was a wreck by that point, Anakin says so himself.

It's armor must have been strong enough to prevent damage from that if it can take GT bursts. The only reason that I could come up with was that there were already hull breaches in the ship. The friction from the drag went through these breaches and did damage to the interior of the ship, which couldn't withstand the heat. That's really the only explanation I could come up with.

The ship had already copped serious damage from the Rebel fleet at that point. Hull breaches are confirmed (see the Separatist deck cannon getting destroyed). Note that the ship retains strucutral integrity upon impact, though.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 06:33am

Vympel wrote:The ship had already copped serious damage from the Rebel fleet at that point.

?

Addendum:

R2-d2 took a fucking beating didn't he? Some damn sturdy construction.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 07:05am

I think he meant Republic fleet.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-05-19 07:39am

How about this one: Light sabers seem to be able to absorb force lightning... why didn't Paply just widen the spread?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 08:01am

Superman wrote:How about this one: Light sabers seem to be able to absorb force lightning... why didn't Paply just widen the spread?

Obi Wan did that to Dooku in AoTC. (handle the lightning with the lightsaber that is)

Widening the spread im not sure would have helped because a) Mace may have been doing something to the lightning and b) i'm convinced Palpatine could have beaten Windu, but he needed Anakin to see what was happening in order to fully turn him.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-05-19 08:14am

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Obi Wan did that to Dooku in AoTC. (handle the lightning with the lightsaber that is)

Widening the spread im not sure would have helped because a) Mace may have been doing something to the lightning and b) i'm convinced Palpatine could have beaten Windu, but he needed Anakin to see what was happening in order to fully turn him.

Given the way Palpatine handed Yoda his arse on a silver platter, there's no doubt that he could've done away with Windu that quickly. He intentionally lost it and acted helpless as you said to convince Anakin that the Jedi were fucking him over. Once Anakin saw he made a big mistake, then he knew he fucked up big time.

I should note, the Wookie flying machines are ornithopters, not helicopters, because they use wing-beat movements like dragonflies.

I was annoyed we didn't see much of the Juggernauts fighting bar the rolling along with the missile massacre launch. The droid gunships were also used sparingly, but damn, if the Wookies aren't vicious bastards.

Anyone else get a smile forming when that clonetrooper got on top of a droid and fired down into it on full-auto? It was also nice to see camouflage used for once too rather than the bloody inconspicuous bright white armour of the basic soldiers.

ds615 · Post by **ds615** » 2005-05-19 08:46am

It seems likely to me that the Sepratist forces would add an additional shield, or at least modify the shield, on their hangar bays.

After all, the TF took a beating when some little runt "accidentially" wandered into the Control Ship hangar in his N-1. I don't think they want that to happen again!

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-05-19 08:55am

This seems the best thread for this.

What was with General Order 66? It evidently was already being taught to the clones, how many people would have known of such an order being there?

I figured that since the clones were officially meant to be backup for the Jedi, such an order would raise concern.

Anyone?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-05-19 09:03am

Since the whole saga is essentially one big orchestrated ruse by Palpatine, and since he had Dooku as Darth Tyrannus start the project on Kamino, it's not hard to expect this special order was implemented when they were bred and trained. Then, when the time was right, they would hear it and immediately go to emergency protocol and follow only Palpatine.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2005-05-19 09:32am

Still, it's a little odd that the Kaminoans would let it slide - but their mercenary attitude was mentioned in AotC.

"Jedi Master Sifer Dias wants us to add an order to the clone soldiers that causes them to kill Jedi!"
"It's their money."

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 09:35am

Gandalf wrote:What was with General Order 66? It evidently was already being taught to the clones, how many people would have known of such an order being there?
Anyone?

Either Genetically bred into the clones, or a contingency plan developed in secret from the Jedi in case of a Jedi Coup attempt. As far as who would have known it, Possibly genetically bred into the clones by the Kaminoans or I suspect that 66 was taught only to high ranking commanders such as Cody, who then handed it down to their troops. Since Clonetroopers seemto have a sort of fraternity with each other there is no reason they couldnt have kept it secret.