Dumb argument - Common nomenclature for original trilogy

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2005-05-21 12:28pm

Hi all,

I'm engaged in a dumb debate with someone over how most people know the original films, particularly the 1977 film.

I grew up as a SW kid, having almost all the toys and collectibles, and even played the RPG in high school and college. I think I've been pretty immersed in it, though I don't pretend to be a fan on the level of many people.

At any rate, until the prequels came out, I and everyone I know always referred to the 1977 film as "Star Wars," and the subsequent films as "ESB" and "RotJ" (not abbreviated IRL, of course). Nobody referred to them by episode numbers whatsoever. In fact, i don't think I was cognizant of the 1977 film being Ep. 4 until probably the late 90s.

The person I'm arguing with is asserting that most people know the original film as either "Episode 4" or "ANH." This guy was born in the mid-80s, so he wasn't around for the original releases. But that's beside the point--I say that, to this day, the overwhelming majority of people (not just fans, but everyone) still think of the original film as "Star Wars," not by episode number. I have as evidence for this that: a) Lucas didn't officially rename the movie until 1997, b) the 1997 special edition release doesn't mention the ep number nor ANH on the box anywhere, c) none of the theatricl posters for any of the first three films reference an episode number, and d) most movie sites and critical review sites name the film solely as "Star Wars," listing the ep number and ANH has subtitles, usually.

So what's your perspective? And give an idea as to your age as well.

Oh, and if this has been debated before, please direct me to the proper thread. Thanks!

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2005-05-21 12:39pm

Look here:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/cut_scene ... pisode.htm

That should shut him up.

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2005-05-21 01:22pm

Tribun wrote:Look here:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/cut_scene ... pisode.htm

That should shut him up.

That actually doesn't help, but thanks. We're not arguing that the Episode number and such were added later. He's asserting that most people today know the 1977 film as either "Ep 4" or "ANH." My position is that, for most people, the 1977 film is just "Star Wars" and they don't know/don't care that it's Ep 4 or ANH.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-05-21 01:25pm

Most fans know of the first film as Episode IV: A New Hope, but the average Joe or Jane knows it only as "Star Wars". Ask him to conduct a non-scientific poll of people he knows who aren't fans, and see the results.

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2005-05-21 01:45pm

Firefox wrote:Most fans know of the first film as Episode IV: A New Hope, but the average Joe or Jane knows it only as "Star Wars". Ask him to conduct a non-scientific poll of people he knows who aren't fans, and see the results.

No way of knowing he'd give an honest answer even if he did so. So this is my way of polling. I figure, I'll ask fans what they think. I'll wager even the hardcore fans will state pretty much what you have.

Thanks!

Panzer Grenadier · Post by **Panzer Grenadier** » 2005-05-21 01:52pm

Well, I think most people definatley think of the first one as just Star Wars, becuase in 1977 it was released by Lucas just as a stand alone movie. It wasn't until after it was hugely succesful that Lucas knew he could continue with the rest of the trilogy. I belive the ANH subtitle was added for the special editions.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 01:54pm

I agree that it is a dumb argument.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 01:56pm

Panzer Grenadier wrote: I belive the ANH subtitle was added for the special editions.

The "Episode IV - A New Hope" text was added for the 1981 theatrical rerelease.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-05-21 03:07pm

I refer to it as either Ep 4 or ANH. I grew up watching the movies on VHS, mind you, and the first time I saw any SW movie theatrically was for the 97 special edition.

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2005-05-21 03:09pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote: The "Episode IV - A New Hope" text was added for the 1981 theatrical rerelease.

Yup. But in spite of that, people still, by and large, think of the first film as "Star Wars."

In fact, the practice of referring to the movies by episode number didn't arise until Episode I was released, which was the first of any of the movies to overtly be branded with the episode numbering.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-05-21 03:15pm

I find that when I'm talking to non-SW fans about ANH I have to say "ya know, the original one." Because they don't register that it is also called "Episode IV" and "A New Hope"

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2005-05-22 01:22pm

The Original Nex wrote:I find that when I'm talking to non-SW fans about ANH I have to say "ya know, the original one." Because they don't register that it is also called "Episode IV" and "A New Hope"

Funny you should mention this, because now he's shifting his argument and pretending like he was only talking about when people are trying to differentiate between the SW films. But then he's claiming that by people clarifying that they mean "the original" they mean the 1977 film, that somehow contradicts my assertion that most people know that film just as "Star Wars." I can't grasp what the hell he is thinking now.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-22 01:29pm

I refer to it as Star Wars, Episode IV, and A New Hope, more or less on a whim or depending on discussional context.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-05-22 01:30pm

Baron Scarpia wrote:
Tribun wrote:Look here:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/cut_scene ... pisode.htm

That should shut him up.
That actually doesn't help, but thanks. We're not arguing that the Episode number and such were added later. He's asserting that most people today know the 1977 film as either "Ep 4" or "ANH." My position is that, for most people, the 1977 film is just "Star Wars" and they don't know/don't care that it's Ep 4 or ANH.

It's just when discussing it with people you need to distinguish between 'Star Wars' the franchise and 'Star Wars, Ep #'. I knew ANH as Star Wars growing up, until it finally clicked that there were three of them (and now six

) and if you wanted to talk about ANH you either said 'the first one' (which got confusing after TPM came out) or you refered to it by episode number or title.

So in essense, you're both right.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-05-22 09:11pm

I only refer to it as "A New Hope" or "Episode IV" when discussing with other "fans."

In person I'll just call it Star Wars because I figure that's what most people who remember when it was in theaters (before the special editions) knew it as that.

And you're right, Episode I was... Episode I. That's what everyone called it, for the longest time, even after "The Phantom Menace" was finally revealed. All the merchandise that started early was branded with it.

Incidentally my tickets for Revenge of the Sith say "Star Wars III" on them. I think it's kind of cool how they just dealt with it like that..

Episode I, Star Wars II, Star Wars III.

I wonder how many referred to Empire as "Star Wars 2" back in 1980? Like "so are you going to see Star Wars 2?"

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2005-05-23 10:25pm

Have to update:

He's now asserted that most people don't know there was an actual movie called "Star Wars," despite knowing the "Star Wars" trilogy.

Kaintukee_Bob · Post by **Kaintukee_Bob** » 2005-05-24 03:31pm

I was born in 1983, so I've always seen the "Episode IV: A New Hope" tagline.

I still called it 'Star Wars', 'Empire Strikes Back', and 'Return of the Jedi'.

Even Lucasfilm refers to it as 'Star Wars' most of the time (pre-prequel), as seen in the title of the documentary they released: "From Star Wars to Jedi"

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2005-05-24 04:37pm

Kurgan wrote:I only refer to it as "A New Hope" or "Episode IV" when discussing with other "fans."

Same here. Actually I'm more like to abbreviate it as ANH for use around here.

Otherwise it's STAR WARS

, followed by the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Even with the prequel trilogy I'm more likely to use the Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith than I would an episode number or the full long name.

Besides, after "Star Wars" "A New Hope" is kind of lame.

But then I'm an Original Warsie (aka "Old Geezer")

. I've seen all the movies in their original forms in the theater during their original releases.

I'm saying original movies because I didn't bother to go see the SE of ESB or RotJ in the theater