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I think there has been enough contention over this infamous NOOOOOO scene that it warrants a thread.

The first time I saw it, I really didn't like it. I didn't like it for the simple reason that it didn't seem like Vader to me, and I wanted to see Vader. I didn't like the way he stomped off the table like Frankenstein.

But the second time I saw the movie, I viewed it differently. I see it now as the death scene of Anakin Skywalker. In that scene the transformation is still not complete. He still talks and acts like Anakin, not Vader. But at the end of that scene, Anakin dies. In the next scene on the bridge of the Venator overseeing the construction site, there is no more Anakin in that suit. Only Vader remains.

Pretty much. I love that his first words after going "Yes, my master" is about Padme.

It hits him finally what he had done and lost because of his own arrogance.

The "Nooooooo!!" doesn't sound right, but really, it does fit.

Regarding Frankenstein, as Lucas and Hayden Christensen have both said, Vader stomps out like that because he's walking on artificial (longer) legs for the first time. Hayden Christensens' boots also had raised heels inside them, since HC while tall is no David Prowse.

Some don't even like him asking after Padme. They forget the way Vader speaks to Luke, both before going to the Death Star II and after he slam dunks the Emperor. His "it is too late for me, son" alone sounded almost tender.

The NOOOO I really didn't mind the first time though. Everyone I know has complained about it though. Maybe Lucas will change it for the DVD and then say its what he always intended (just like the teaser trailer having Vader's hands up instead of by his sides was changed, obviously due to the fans saying it looked a bit silly).

The line itself, or it's audible delivery, didn't bother me at all. In fact I thought it fit perfectly. But, for some reason, the body language just seemed wrong to me. Not of the scene in general, just during that one particular line. Perhaps I need to go see the movie again, which I suppose I must. For my own good.

Having said all that, I should point out that I don't have a good explanation as to why I feel this way. Perhaps it just looked awkward to me. But then that fits perfectly considering that he's not used to his new body.

Somebody hit me so I stop rambling.

The "NO" scene is not well handled. It is nice to know that there is some explanation for the Frankenstein-esque movements, but the "nooooo" is just silly, even in the Spanish version (they used the same actor for Vader's voice in both the OT and now, which was a nice touch, BTW) where Vader has a somewhat graver voice, better for what was supposed to be the dramatic cry of death of Anakin's soul.

What complainers need to realize is, this isn't the same Vader that we see in the OT. The person inside the suit is still the relatively same 20 something year old that had just fought with Obiwan. At this point, I don't think he has been completely consumed by the Darkside.

The Vader in the OT is 20 years older and has had 20 years more experience delving into the dark side.

I fucking LOVED that scene. Vader using "the voice" to timidly ask wether Padme is all right. It was great. OK so the NOOO might have been a little over the top but all in all a great scene.

I liked the scene, it shows where Anakin realises that all he has left is the Emperor.

He loved Padme, and had Obi-Wan as a brother. And the Jedi as an extended family. And because he wanted that little bit more, he lost it. His crushing of things was like his last feebled outburst.

All he had left was Palpatine.

There needs to be a poll.

1.) Liked the scene and the NO!
2.) Liked the scene but hated the NO!
3.) Hated the scene but like the NO!
4.) Hated the scene and the NO!

Ima go with number two. I thought that the NO! was a bit too over the top. Maybe if it had been done differently, somehow? Who knows. As it was, it rubbed me the wrong way.

For me it was Anakin's "death" scene in first viewing, the scene were he realizes all he has is himself and Palpatine and he has either killed or aliened all those who really care about him, all because of his arrogance (as it says in novel, the one time he should have thinking about other people, he's thinking about just himself.)

Still haven't seen it (argh!!) but I can say now that the bridge scene afterwards is all wrong. Vader shouldn't be crossing his arms, he should be hooking his thumbs in his belt, because that's what Vader did all the time in the OT.

I loved the scene. The whole bit, and Wong's right, it was a total transition in that one scene. Also, as much as it pains me to, I agree with Spanker there too. I was a little bothered, since this arms hit his collar protector, where Prowse always hooked his thumbs in the belt. Either way, it's a different Vader now, to where we see him.

As I said in the review thread, the only problem I had with the Nooo!!! was that, if you're going to do it, you really have the give 'er. That 'no' has to come from the bottom of your soul and drain you of everything. I didn't see that.

Everything else in the scene I liked. I didn't think he was stomping off the table because his legs were longer than he was used to, I thought it was because he had to break the bonds around his ankles...

Adressing the Frankenstein start I viewed it as perfect. He had just fought Obi Wan to the death, was burned alive, then transported across the galaxy. Then he lays on a table for no telling how long as they complete the reconstructive surgery and attach his bio limbs. Then as he stands up, he has to get used to the attachments, plus break the bonds on the table. Maid perfect sense to me, and was an excellent touch.

Here's the problem I think alot of folks have this scene. They expect Vader as of ANH as soon as puts on the suit. Sorry. This is still whiney bratty Anakin who has been obsessed with padme and did everything for her. Now she's gone, he's in a suit using cybernetic limbs he's never used before and told he killed the only woman he loved - or perhaps suspects that Obi Wan or someone else killed her and all he did was for NOTHING.

The Vader that steps on the Tantive IV is 20 years older, more bitter, angry and truly a malevolent human being. You want that in the span of a few mionutes of screen time?

Sorry that scene was perfect in terms of character and I would be the first to complain about that otherwise.

I still think Calculon from Futurama. I'm sorry, it just came off that way. Now, when I see it a second time after these pesky finals, I may see it better than that. But I still recall wanting it to be simply Vader collapsing after his anger manifesting as a Force bubble blasting stuff back. Just kneeling and obviously in torment. No words to describe what he was going through.

Hell, what bugged me in that scene is that they didn't even bother cleaning him up from the crispy deep frying. I mean there are still pieces of burnt flesh hanging off his face when they seal him in. You'd think they'd at least try to clean the guy up. It looks like they just graft all that shit on without that. Burn victims need to be cleaned up to help stop infection and the like.

I thought about the burned part too, but it might be they're getting him into his life support system first, and they'll work on the skin grafts later.

Stravo wrote:Here's the problem I think alot of folks have this scene. They expect Vader as of ANH as soon as puts on the suit. Sorry. This is still whiney bratty Anakin who has been obsessed with padme and did everything for her. Now she's gone, he's in a suit using cybernetic limbs he's never used before and told he killed the only woman he loved - or perhaps suspects that Obi Wan or someone else killed her and all he did was for NOTHING.

The Vader that steps on the Tantive IV is 20 years older, more bitter, angry and truly a malevolent human being. You want that in the span of a few mionutes of screen time?

Sorry that scene was perfect in terms of character and I would be the first to complain about that otherwise.

Personally I don't actually have that problem, I get all that, it's just the delivery of the line, it sounded like whale song, for gods sake.

Stravo wrote:Sorry that scene was perfect in terms of character and I would be the first to complain about that otherwise.

When Stravo doesn't complain about a scene in this context, the scene is perfect dammit.

[quote="Cal Wright"I was a little bothered, since this arms hit his collar protector, where Prowse always hooked his thumbs in the belt.[/quote]I didn't catch that.. what the collar protector?

Gandalf wrote:I liked the scene, it shows where Anakin realises that all he has left is the Emperor.

He loved Padme, and had Obi-Wan as a brother. And the Jedi as an extended family. And because he wanted that little bit more, he lost it. His crushing of things was like his last feebled outburst.

All he had left was Palpatine.

Ooh, I never thought about it that way.

I still think Calculon from Futurama. I'm sorry, it just came off that way. Now, when I see it a second time after these pesky finals, I may see it better than that. But I still recall wanting it to be simply Vader collapsing after his anger manifesting as a Force bubble blasting stuff back. Just kneeling and obviously in torment. No words to describe what he was going through.

In my theater, someone in the back row shouted 'DAMN YOU, CALCULON!' and that's basically what the NOOOOO seemed like, yes. But I liked it. It was unintentionally funny, yes, but it did fit with how he wasn't just a seething cauldron of evil just yet. He was doing everything for his love, who he just happened to kill. Ooopsies.

Stravo wrote:Hell, what bugged me in that scene is that they didn't even bother cleaning him up from the crispy deep frying. I mean there are still pieces of burnt flesh hanging off his face when they seal him in. You'd think they'd at least try to clean the guy up. It looks like they just graft all that shit on without that. Burn victims need to be cleaned up to help stop infection and the like.

I thought they did. His face is a lot more blackened on Mustafar and earlier in the scene than when the mask finaly comes down, IIRC.

I heard one person saying he would be wearing the charred remains of those cool leather Jedi robes of his on his body for the rest of his days, but that's just foolish, there was undoubtedly a cut where they picked off those charred remains of clothing.

He probably was given subsequent treatments as well.

One of the best bits of fan art I ever saw was Darth Vader with his helmet off, inside his chamber, slouching, looking at a hologram of Padme. That was really cool.

did you notice that lenses on Vader's mask were more just peices of plastic(or SW equilevant).

One of the best bits of fan art I ever saw was Darth Vader with his helmet off, inside his chamber, slouching, looking at a hologram of Padme. That was really cool.

were did you see this and do you have a link if it was online.

Lord Revan wrote:did you notice that lenses on Vader's mask were more just peices of plastic(or SW equilevant)

I thought everyone knew that: "Just for once, let me look on you with my own eyes." Everytime he had seen Luke, it had been through those red modified electronic lenses.

were did you see this and do you have a link if it was online.

It was on TFN.net. Might be hard to find now though.

Vympel wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:did you notice that lenses on Vader's mask were more just peices of plastic(or SW equilevant)

I thought everyone knew that: "Just for once, let me look on you with my own eyes." Everytime he had seen Luke, it had been through those red modified electronic lenses.

yeah it's pretty much said in ROTJ, but if there's one I have learned here, it's that you should never underestimate human stupidity