StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Main Site wrote:8 Things I'd like to See in Episode 3

Written: 2002-05-26

1. Non-fatal casualties. In Star Wars, no one ever suffers any serious injury in battle. No arms or legs blown off. Nobody laying on the ground screaming in agony with his guts flayed open. Every combatant is either unscathed, knocked unconscious without injury, or killed instantly. Now, I recognize that Star Wars is not a gorefest, but it would be nice to see soldiers suffering some kind of injury, as opposed to either being untouched or dead.

There were some clonetroopers lying on the ground going "aaargh" while medics tended them along with miscellaneous handicapped Jedi Knights and Sith Lords.

The Main Site wrote:2. Clone troopers (who just acted like better-equipped droids in AOTC) demonstrating that they are human by doing characteristically human things such as flinching in the face of enemy fire, looking for cover, hitting the dirt when enemy fire comes in, dragging wounded comrades to safety, etc. There is a limit to how sterile a war should be, even in a popcorn movie.

See above. Also, we saw that Obi-Wan had befriended his Clonetroopers.

The Main Site wrote:3. Boba Fett's revenge. Actor Samuel Jackson has said that he wants his character Mace Windu to die a memorable death in Episode 3. I think that his death should come at the hands of Boba Fett. Picture this: Mace Windu fights off a horde of attackers. He is victorious, but he senses danger and looks skyward, only to see Slave 1 racing towards him. Boba Fett, who can barely reach the controls, looses a seismic charge and then veers off. Windu's expression changes to one of fatalistic resignation as the seismic charge hurtles to ground, and the next thing you see is Slave 1 flying away from the titanic blast. Inside the ship, Boba whispers "got him, Dad". And the circle is closed.

Unfortunately, Boba didn't get his revenge, though I for one cannot complain about Mace Windu's last stand.

The Main Site wrote:4. The mother of all space battles. It's the last Star Wars movie that will ever be made, and I want to see some war among the stars! I want to see warships filling the screen with destruction, and fighters swarming like bees wherever you look.

The opening scene certainly fills this role.

The Main Site wrote:5. Darth Vader. I will be very disappointed if we don't see Anakin in the full Darth Vader armour at some point, acting the way we remember him from ANH. Not just bratty, or selfish, or vengeful, or even psychotic, but cold, ruthless, methodical, and evil.

This we saw.

The Main Site wrote:6. The mighty Executor, along with star destroyers, TIE fighters, and other vessels which will stylistically join the prequels to the original trilogy.

We did see the (prototype?) death star, early Star Destroyers and Ties. Though the Executor sadly didn't appear, the stylistic joining with the classic trilogy was certainly there.

The Main Site wrote:7. Orbital bombardment. The ability was mentioned but stymied in TESB by the defensive shield, and it was ruled out for unknown reasons in AOTC. I find this frustrating, and I want to see it! However, I have a feeling we won't.

Sadly, we didn't see this. We did see planetary assaults aplenty, though.

The Main Site wrote:8. The command apparatus of the Imperial Navy. By that, I mean the black-suited officer corps, the green-suited admirals, and the Moffs, including Grand Moff Tarkin.

'Twas but a cameo, but still a yes.

The Main Site wrote:PS. Many readers have written in to add that they would also like to see Natalie Portman's tits. However, while this would indeed be pleasing to the eye, I don't think it will happen

Sadly, the bonus feature didn't make an appearance, though we did see her in a nightgown. I guess we can keep our fingers crossed for the DVD version.

Overall 75% of the wish list was essentially fulfilled (not counting the twins bonus). Seeing how Boba couldn't have offed Windu more cinematically than occoured in the movie and orbital bombardment wouldn't have neccesarily improved it, I'd say that this was pretty damn good.

I would think Anakin is the nost notable Non Fatal casualty in the film

I would also point out that plenty of people lose their hands throughout the movies, so there are quite a lot of non-fatal casualties.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

There were some clonetroopers lying on the ground going "aaargh" while medics tended them along with miscellaneous handicapped Jedi Knights and Sith Lords.

Covered that, so nyah.

Lord Zentei wrote:

There were some clonetroopers lying on the ground going "aaargh" while medics tended them along with miscellaneous handicapped Jedi Knights and Sith Lords.

Covered that, so nyah.

Gah, of all the typos to make.... it was supposed to be movieS, as in DW's complaint was rather unfounded.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I took it to mean that we never see any minor characters get grievous injuries. Sure, Luke get's his hand chopped off, as does Anakin and Tyranous, but they're main characters. We don't see the grunts take shots and need medical attention.

The Main Site wrote:6. The mighty Executor, along with star destroyers, TIE fighters, and other vessels which will stylistically join the prequels to the original trilogy.

Shouldn't it have been a given that the Executor wasn't going to be shown?

I mean, according to the EU, it wasn't even officially launched until after the battle of Yavin IV.

I noted and appreciated the other stylistic joinings (especially the Jedi starfighters that evolved into TIEs...that was something I wouldn't have predicted).

Regarding the Death Star: I'd agree, its either a prototype (perhaps one which would later be moved into the Maw...aw, who am I kidding? Lucas just shit all over prior cannon with that) or the montage of scenes was skipping ahead through time. Perhaps we saw the construction of the first Death Star, some 17 years after the death of Padme and birth of Vader.

This, of course, opens up questions of why Palpatine would wait so long to build the station...Maybe he was biding his time and solidifying his control?

There was concept art for a proto-Executor in ROTS.

How would Anakin commanding a fleet from the bridge of a proto-Executor tie into the OT?

Technically, Jango had his revenge against the Jedi, since it is his clones that kill the majority of the Jedi.

Personally I am sooo Glad Mace Died the Way he did and Not by Boba's Hand. Personally, it would have been the most anti-Climactic way to kill Mace. But then again I'm not the hugest Fett fan and most dislike the wankjob some authors do to them.

Stofsk wrote:I took it to mean that we never see any minor characters get grievous injuries. Sure, Luke get's his hand chopped off, as does Anakin and Tyranous, but they're main characters. We don't see the grunts take shots and need medical attention.

Well, like I pointed out there were a few clones lying around going "aaargh" as the medics tended them during Grevious's last stand. And there was the dumbass in the bar brawl in ANH who lost his arm.

Then the deaths of the Jawas and Owen and Beru in ANH were pretty nasty though that hardly qualifies as injury other than death.

Lord Zentei wrote:

Stofsk wrote:I took it to mean that we never see any minor characters get grievous injuries. Sure, Luke get's his hand chopped off, as does Anakin and Tyranous, but they're main characters. We don't see the grunts take shots and need medical attention.

Well, like I pointed out there were a few clones lying around going "aaargh" as the medics tended them during Grevious's last stand. And there was the dumbass in the bar brawl in ANH who lost his arm.

Then the deaths of the Jawas and Owen and Beru in ANH were pretty nasty though that hardly qualifies as injury other than death.

Also as a near run to that we do see at least one or two cases where the pilots/gunners in destroyed spacecraft are left adrift afterwards which is probably one of the first times we've really seen such actions in all six of the films.

Pilots left adrift are not necessarily dead. At least in the OT, the pilots have life support equipment sufficient for an indeterminate time.

In the EU (more specifically, the X-Wing series) these flight suits had personal magcon fields which would hold in oxygen (though not heat, they had small heating units for that, I believe) and keep a survivable amount of pressure on the pilot. The technology for this (like most of what the Rebel Allicance had) was likely old, second hand equipment. In fact, I believe a lot of the equipment they used dated back to the Clone Wars. Ergo, it stands to reason that the pilots in the Clone Wars would have had a similar life support system. Clones may be inherently expendable, but only a fool would expend them for no reason. They still take time to grow and train, even if it is only a year (as the EU suggests), but especially if all the clones were grown using the method shown in Episode 2.

Lord Zentei wrote:

The Main Site wrote:5. Darth Vader. I will be very disappointed if we don't see Anakin in the full Darth Vader armour at some point, acting the way we remember him from ANH. Not just bratty, or selfish, or vengeful, or even psychotic, but cold, ruthless, methodical, and evil.

This we saw.

Um, when? Vader got his full armor, but at no point did we see him act cold, ruthless, methodical or evil in it.

Gil Hamilton wrote: Um, when? Vader got his full armor, but at no point did we see him act cold, ruthless, methodical or evil in it.

He was pretty cold, ruthless, methodical and evil in the Jedi temple and when he killed the Separatists. He just wasn't wearing the armor. So it's close.

Tsyroc wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote: Um, when? Vader got his full armor, but at no point did we see him act cold, ruthless, methodical or evil in it.

He was pretty cold, ruthless, methodical and evil in the Jedi temple and when he killed the Separatists. He just wasn't wearing the armor. So it's close.

But technicaly he was Darth Vader.

Funny. It seemed as if NO ONE ever considered that 'Darth Vader' would take the physical form of simply an evil Anakin Skywalker. Everyone took the physical transformation so literally that it seemed as if everyone assumed Anakin would only be referrenced as Darth Vader after he wore his armored suit not before. Technically, the final saber fight wasn't Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Anakin Skywalker as everyone keeps on saying. It was Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Darth Vader.

Yes, Pinto's right. Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader at the moment that Darth Sidious names him.

I truly do not understand why anyone would fail to see this.

Before Episode III, many assumed that he was only taken in by the Emperor after he received his life-threatening injuries, but now that the movie is out, the true chronology of events is revealed: he becomes Darth Vader before that.

Kaintukee_Bob wrote:Pilots left adrift are not necessarily dead.

Thus the reason I said they are a near run for inclusion in the non-fatal casualties list.

Since they didn't eject, and their plane blew up, wouldn't they be horribly injured or dead even if they were wearing armoured spacesuits? I mean, ejecting TIE style is one thing, but falling out the back of and explosion doesn't seem very safe

TIE's don't have ejection seats. They're disposable ships with disposable pilots. [/nitpick]

If they were caught in the middle of an explosion, the pilots wouldn't have recognizable corpses. Therefore, they must have been propelled outward somehow. While still potentially dead or dying from injuries sustained by explosive force coupled with bone-chilling cold, the pilots could not have been caught in an explosion and still be whole beings (not if the explosion encompassed an entire starfighter), barring some one in a million miracle.

Kaintukee_Bob wrote:TIE's don't have ejection seats. They're disposable ships with disposable pilots. [/nitpick]

Oh fuck off. Watch the damn movies.

If they were caught in the middle of an explosion, the pilots wouldn't have recognizable corpses. Therefore, they must have been propelled outward somehow. While still potentially dead or dying from injuries sustained by explosive force coupled with bone-chilling cold, the pilots could not have been caught in an explosion and still be whole beings (not if the explosion encompassed an entire starfighter), barring some one in a million miracle.

THEY WERE YOU TOOL. It's in the fucking movie.

Not that your nitpickery changes anything, since even you can accept that they were probably dying from all manner of injuries. Hence, ejecting like TIE pilots do would've been better.

Gil Hamilton wrote:Um, when? Vader got his full armor, but at no point did we see him act cold, ruthless, methodical or evil in it.

I think slowly Force-chocking his pregnant wife while she begs for mercy is pretty damn cold. The fact that he got his armor later is just a technicality.

Kaintukee_Bob wrote:TIE's don't have ejection seats. They're disposable ships with disposable pilots. [/nitpick]

If they were caught in the middle of an explosion, the pilots wouldn't have recognizable corpses. Therefore, they must have been propelled outward somehow. While still potentially dead or dying from injuries sustained by explosive force coupled with bone-chilling cold, the pilots could not have been caught in an explosion and still be whole beings (not if the explosion encompassed an entire starfighter), barring some one in a million miracle.

To reinforce another point: Have you actually watched the movies?

Now in ESB I know its kinda hard to see the TIE ejection sequence but the free floating pilot in ROTS is about as plain as you can make it.

I've never seen this TIE ejection sequence in ESB...can someone give me a general time frame? Which scene? More importantly, which version of the films? I was going by the EU, as I had seen no evidence of ejection in the films.

Referring to the free-floating pilots: I didn't say the ships in ROTS didn't have ejection seats. I said that TIEs didn't. The Republic most likely had them in all their fighters, as Clones take time to grow and train, and are expensive. The Empire likely cut the ejection seats from the final TIE design (unless there is a TIE ejection sequence I missed, I'll have to look for that) to save cost. They have billions of these things, even a few credits saved on each one could have funded much more important ships.

Please note the following:

Kaintukee_Bob wrote:If they were caught in the middle of an explosion, the pilots wouldn't have recognizable corpses. Therefore, they must have been propelled outward somehow.

By 'propelled outward somehow', I mean away from the exploding ship. By way of...an ejection seat, maybe? I'm not arguing that these people don't have ejection seats, I'm saying that they *must* have ejection seats of some form and *must* have used them. Unless you can explain how a humanoid body can survive an explosion powerfull enough to rip a snubfighter to debris (vapourizing part of it), fuelled by that snubfighter's fuel and munitions (assuming the fuel would explode and there were munitions remaining), the pilots must have ejected prior to the ship exploding.

To answer the above question, "Yes, I've seen the movies." Unfortunately, I'm on a student budget, so I've only seen ROTS once