Yoda on Mustafar

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-23 03:13pm

What if at the pivotal scene when Obi Wan demands to fight the emperor instead Yoda has a premonition that this might be the way to go and lets Obi Wan go after the Emperor while he goes to Mustafar to confront Anakin.

What sort of result do we get? Does Yoda hand Anakin his ass? Does Anakin defeat Yoda (not having the same emotional struggle he had trying to kill his old master)

And just for shit and giggles, how FUCKED is Obi Wan when taking on the Emperor? Keep in mind he sure seems to have a knack with taking on Sith Lords. After all Sith Lords are his speciality.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2005-05-23 03:17pm

I think Obi-Wan is in for great trouble against Sidious. Obi didn't fare well against Dooku and needed Anakin to bail him out.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2005-05-23 03:19pm

Next of Kin wrote:I think Obi-Wan is in for great trouble against Sidious. Obi didn't fare well against Dooku and needed Anakin to bail him out.

I think this is a good analysis. To be honest, he almost didn't make it against Vader, and wouldn't have if the Sith Apprentice had had +0.00005% more Rationality.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-23 03:23pm

I suspet Yoda is more than a match for Vader at this time.

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-05-23 03:25pm

heres my take

Obi
palpy wast his ass untill he's a potel of promortieal goo

Yoda
yoda kicks Ani's ass amd then goes to save obi-won from the old fucker known as palpatin and then gets wasted by palps in a similer fashin as ROTS

Faqa · Post by **Faqa** » 2005-05-23 03:26pm

"Fucked to Tatooine and back you will be, Obi-Wan".

I see this, however, as a preferable scenario. Anakin either wets his pants when Yoda comes down the ramp, or just fights. But because it's Yoda, not his mentor and friend Kenobi, he might not feel the need to choke Padme.

Do I really need to mention who wins? Anakin gets owned so fast it's not even funny.

I'd say the kids grow up with a mother, and maybe more Jedi contact. Luke would've been readier to face Palpy alone or with a lesser apprentice when the time came.

Without Kenobi to watch over the kids, Yoda will be in closer contact with the Skywalkers no matter what. This will probably be a good thing.

Of course, Obi-Wan dies, but he LOSES which is more important, and Yoda lost as well, so the point doesn't really have much effect.

Fw 190 · Post by **Fw 190** » 2005-05-23 03:42pm

No contest. Yoda defeats Anakin with blender of death moves or Force shoves him into the lava. I don't think Anakin has enough focus or control to withstand direct Force attacks. I also don't know how much Obi-Wan was holding back because he didn't want to kill his apprentice.

Obi-Wan walks into the Senate chamber and the guards stab him in the back. Palpatine goes back to work hiring regional governors and reading Playboy.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-05-23 03:46pm

As others have argued:

Obi-Wan vs. Palpatine - Obi-Wan becomes a slimy red paste in a matter of moments.

Yoda vs. Vader - Yoda might not necessarily kill Vader unless forced to, but suffice to say Anakin would probably end up a quadruple amputee earlier

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-05-23 03:50pm

Obi Wan is a superb lightsaber combatent, he is wise in the Force but not as powerful as others, basically he knows well how to use the Force and use it well, but perhaps not with as much raw power as others.

Namely the Emperor. The Emperor is wise in the Force and is very powerful in it. His lightsaber skills didn't really impress me too much. He took out the first couple Jedi by surprise rather than anything. Mace was able to defeat him in saber combat, Obi may not be offensively as good as Mace is atleast defensively as good if not better (since it's his specialty).

Results; Obi looses big time. He can counted probably anything Palpatine throws at him with a lightsaber but when the Force contest starts, he's doomed. He could probably defend himself well against lightning attacks if he doesn't loose his saber, but when massive Force chucking of objects starts, I don't think he's powerful enough to stop/divert it all.

Yoda is everything the Emperor is but lightside while Anakin is a good duelist, his Force powers are more raw power than finace and are not very intracate.

Yoda's lightsaber style should be a match for Anakin's strong but flashy with his fast and flashy and when it comes to Force power competition, Yoda will fuck him up.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2005-05-23 04:01pm

Here's a possible scenario:

Palpatine immediately realizes something is really fucking wrong when he senses Obi Wan coming instead of Yoda. He probably won't even waste theatrics on Obi Wan. The second Obi Wan walks through the door and wastes time wasting the two Crimson Guards, Palpatine fries him into a charred, blackened skeleton.

Then he races to Mustafar. If he makes it in time, he can save Vader but the rest of the battle hinges on who manages to toss who into the lava first, Yoda or Palpatine. If he arrives in time to see Vader get bitchslapped, then he could probably whip Yoda, softened up a bit by having to fight off Vader's brute power.

Then Palpatine brings Padme back with him and she has the twins and dies. He uses her death as a propaganda piece . . . one of his own compatriots from the peaceful world of Naboo . . . . coldly slain by the Jedi, another Jedi making an attempt on his own life.

Then imagine what happens if Luke is raised by Palpatine directly, with Leia as Palpatine's backup plan and the first of his Hands . . .

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2005-05-23 08:01pm

Why didn't the two Jedi go to team up on Vader and then go after Palpy? Together they might have been able to not only finish Vader but also screw over Palpatine, and thus resolve the two biggest threats to the galaxy, and not leave them 0-2 instead...

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2005-05-23 08:07pm

Straha wrote:Why didn't the two Jedi go to team up on Vader and then go after Palpy? Together they might have been able to not only finish Vader but also screw over Palpatine, and thus resolve the two biggest threats to the galaxy, and not leave them 0-2 instead...

The Jedi were more 1-0-1 than 0-2, IMHO.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2005-05-23 08:12pm

Xisiqomelir wrote:
Straha wrote:Why didn't the two Jedi go to team up on Vader and then go after Palpy? Together they might have been able to not only finish Vader but also screw over Palpatine, and thus resolve the two biggest threats to the galaxy, and not leave them 0-2 instead...
The Jedi were more 1-0-1 than 0-2, IMHO.

In the end, all four combatants survived and the Jedi failed to destroy the Sith. It would more likely be either be 0-2-0 or 0-2.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2005-05-23 08:16pm

Xisiqomelir wrote:
Straha wrote:Why didn't the two Jedi go to team up on Vader and then go after Palpy? Together they might have been able to not only finish Vader but also screw over Palpatine, and thus resolve the two biggest threats to the galaxy, and not leave them 0-2 instead...
The Jedi were more 1-0-1 than 0-2, IMHO.

They didn't win though, and tieing doesn't count here. Yoda and Obi-Wan had very specific objectives: Kill the Emperor and Vader respectivley, Yoda failed because he met his match and Obi-Wan failed because he was too attached to Anakin to finish the job properly...
With no victory between them they are, indeed, 0-2.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-23 08:22pm

Straha wrote:Why didn't the two Jedi go to team up on Vader and then go after Palpy? Together they might have been able to not only finish Vader but also screw over Palpatine, and thus resolve the two biggest threats to the galaxy, and not leave them 0-2 instead...

Limited time frame, really. Say they team up to dogpile Anakin, that buys the Emperor time to weave a stronger security net around himself. Conversely, take Palpatine down and Anakin uses the public tragedy to garner massive support for himself while gathering the clone legions to hunt them down like dogs.

That and overconfidence on Yoda's part in thinking he could take Palpatine down head to head.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2005-05-23 08:34pm

Petrosjko wrote:
Straha wrote:Why didn't the two Jedi go to team up on Vader and then go after Palpy? Together they might have been able to not only finish Vader but also screw over Palpatine, and thus resolve the two biggest threats to the galaxy, and not leave them 0-2 instead...
Limited time frame, really. Say they team up to dogpile Anakin, that buys the Emperor time to weave a stronger security net around himself. Conversely, take Palpatine down and Anakin uses the public tragedy to garner massive support for himself while gathering the clone legions to hunt them down like dogs.

That and overconfidence on Yoda's part in thinking he could take Palpatine down head to head.

It's a matter of HOURS between the planets, they could easilly go to Mustafar, hand Annie his ass, and THEN go back to Coruscant, rest, and then kill Palpy all in a matter of 24 Hours (Heck, they could even use Anakin as bait and bring Palpatine to Mustafar where they kill him there after being able to get ready for him to arrive.)

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-05-23 08:43pm

This wouldn't be a good plan.

First, Sidious would fucking waste Obi and kill him. There would be a brief light saber battle, force lightning and good bye Obi Won. Even Yoda admitted Palpy is too powerful for him.

Next, Yoda would probably kill Vader.

So what did Vader's killing accomplish? Not much because Yoda is the only surviving Jedi, and Sidious will just find a new apprentice. He's already the Emperor at that time, and Yoda will still have to go into hiding.

That plan might even be worse because Vader's new apprentice could even be more loyal and end up killing Luke Skywalker later.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-23 08:43pm

Straha wrote:It's a matter of HOURS between the planets, they could easilly go to Mustafar, hand Annie his ass, and THEN go back to Coruscant, rest, and then kill Palpy all in a matter of 24 Hours (Heck, they could even use Anakin as bait and bring Palpatine to Mustafar where they kill him there after being able to get ready for him to arrive.)

They didn't know at that point where Anakin was, remember? Obi Wan had to jog over to talk to Padme to find out.

As for using Anakin as bait, they know that Palpatine was obviously willing to sacrifice an apprentice after he let Anakin kill Dooku. They had no way of knowing of his special attachment to Anakin, and for all they knew if they tried to use him as bait Palpatine might have sent a batch of Venators in to BDZ the planet.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-23 08:55pm

Yoda has to first find Anakin, Obi Wan did it by finding out from Amidala and then stealing away on her ship. If Yoda goes the same route, and I don't doubt that he could (however I dont think he realizes Anakin's connection with Amidala as much as Obi Wan does).

Palpatine would make a great attempt to kill Obi Wan, removing him as someone who could potentially sway Anakin, and succeed. Yoda versus Anakin on Mustafar would go horribly wrong or incredibly well depending on whether or not Yoda can maintain his poise, which I believe he can. Yoda would defeat Anakin through experience. Then however it is up to Yoda to train Padme's children and it would make for a very VERY different OT.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2005-05-23 08:56pm

Petrosjko wrote:
Straha wrote:It's a matter of HOURS between the planets, they could easilly go to Mustafar, hand Annie his ass, and THEN go back to Coruscant, rest, and then kill Palpy all in a matter of 24 Hours (Heck, they could even use Anakin as bait and bring Palpatine to Mustafar where they kill him there after being able to get ready for him to arrive.)
They didn't know at that point where Anakin was, remember? Obi Wan had to jog over to talk to Padme to find out.

As for using Anakin as bait, they know that Palpatine was obviously willing to sacrifice an apprentice after he let Anakin kill Dooku. They had no way of knowing of his special attachment to Anakin, and for all they knew if they tried to use him as bait Palpatine might have sent a batch of Venators in to BDZ the planet.

Point about the using him as bait part, but that's still no reason not to go out and kill Vader together, and then go after Palps, or vice versa. At worst they'll have to spend a day or two between planets, and at best they could have two dead Sith Lords before dinner time...

Panzer Grenadier · Post by **Panzer Grenadier** » 2005-05-23 10:35pm

This wouldn't be a good plan.

First, Sidious would fucking waste Obi and kill him. There would be a brief light saber battle, force lightning and good bye Obi Won. Even Yoda admitted Palpy is too powerful for him.

Next, Yoda would probably kill Vader.

So what did Vader's killing accomplish? Not much because Yoda is the only surviving Jedi, and Sidious will just find a new apprentice. He's already the Emperor at that time, and Yoda will still have to go into hiding.

That plan might even be worse because Vader's new apprentice could even be more loyal and end up killing Luke Skywalker later.

I think if Obi-Wan and Yoda could take down Vader, and then withdraw into hiding this would be a HUGE victory for the Jedi. First of all it will take Palpatine many years to find a new apprentice, and when he does ther is no guarntee they will be as good as annie. Secondly, hunting down the remaining Jedi would be a lot tougher with his right hand man gone, giving the few remaining Jedi more time to regroup or survive. Of course Palpatine could just try and hunt down the Jedi himself, but he never really seemed like a hands on guy, and he would be a easier target for Yoda and Obi-wan tag team if he leaves Courscant.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-05-23 10:41pm

Superman wrote:First, Sidious would fucking waste Obi and kill him. There would be a brief light saber battle, force lightning and good bye Obi Won. Even Yoda admitted Palpy is too powerful for him.

Are you referring to Yoda's epiphany in the novel? Because that was more about the way Yoda handled the Jedi Order and the mentality of the Jedi than about his raw power.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-23 10:49pm

A thought occurred to me about the Anakin Yoda possible duel. Alot of folks are taking this as a given victory for Yoda but consider the following:

Anakin defeated Dooku one on one, fair and square. Dooku was able to hold his own againt Yoda placing them as near equals in terms of dueling.

Yoda is old and he does not seem to have stamina on his side. After the fight with Dooku in AOTC he is physically exhausted after a few minutes of dueling. Obi Wan looks postively exhausted at the end of that fight while Anakin was is relatively fresh and rerring to go for more. Anakin I believe could outlast Yoda in a straight up fight based on sheer endurance alone.

Mustafar is hot as hell and saps the strength of the fighters - both Anakin and Obi Wan are drenched in sweat by the end of their duel and Yoda would be bobbing and weaving throughout the duel expending alot of energy. If Anakin can draw the fight out he can simply tire Yoda out.

Taking these factors into account is it really such a given that Yoda would win?

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2005-05-23 10:56pm

Vader was only important as the Chosen One, and since he joined the Sith his role in balancing the Force seemed to be kaput. If anything, Obi-Wan should have joined Yoda in the attack on Sidious. If the Emperor were eliminated, then Anakin would just be a rogue former Jedi with no official standing and no real training in the dark side. He would hate them even more and Padme might still die, but the Sith would be eliminated and the galaxy saved.

This could go wrong if Obi-Wan was too weak to affect the course of battle with Sidious. Considering how easily Dooku dealt with him, Sidious might just kill Obi-Wan in the opening moments of the battle, leaving Yoda to fight alone in a repeat of what happened. Obi-Wan only did so well against Vader because he trained him and knew him so well. The Emperor hated Obi-Wan since the death of Darth Maul ("We owe you a debt of gratitude, Obi-Wan Kenobi,") and wouldn't have his rage hampered by conflicting feelings like Anakin.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-05-23 11:06pm

Well you have to remember that in their rematch Dooku didn't get to call down the lightning, on Anakin like he did to Yoda. Remember, that Dooku was not trying to kill Anakin, the whole reason doe that farce was to turn him to the Darkside.

I say Yoda had a reason to be tired yet he still stopped that massive pillar from crushing Obi-Wan and Anakin. Just look at the Yoda/Palpy fight: lightning, massive force throws, and who know what else they were doing as the each struggled for advantage. Anakin would be pounded by Yoda, he doesn't have the experience, or the poise of Yoda. As for Yoda being outlasted I don't think so. Yoda would not have given up ground the way Obi-Wan did, it would be Ankin who would try to flee. Anakin vs. Yoda would have been a very short fight, indeed.