Palpatine the Chosen One?

[Stravo]

Someone posted an entry for Palpatine in the visual Dictionary I believe mentions that the Sith have been waiting for a Sith lord powerful enough to carry out their plans of taking over the Republic. That Sith is Palpatine. In many ways Palpatine seems to be the Sith version of the Chosen One.

There is a very simple problem with this hypothesis: Darth Plagueis was more powerful than Palpatine. So why didn't Plagueus attempt the takeover instead of his apprentice? Could Palpatine be the Sith Chosen One when he lacked the final secert to ultimate power? Was Plagueus even interested in a takeover? He seems to be painted as a secretive wizardlike figure plumbing the depths of the Dark Side and obsessed with finding immortality over the stated goal of takeover and purging the Jedi Order (perhaps leading to Palpy sezing the reigns so to speak if his master was derailing the agenda.)

Just as an aside - does anyone find it odd that Palpatine speaks of Plagueus in both reverant tones and bemusement as well? He refers to Plagueus as "The Wise" and speaks of him like a crazy old grand father figure. Palpatine also seems to treat Anakin with almost tender affection in some scenes and in others like a simple slave. I found the dynamic between the two rather interesting. It seemed to portray a very stripped down no bullshit parallel to the jedi-Padawan relationship. The Sith seem to be more than just raving monsters.

Or is Anakin the Chosen One for both sides?

[Drunk Monkey]

Mabye but plagusis was not a politican what made palpitine so god dam scary was he was
A)curopt politican
B)sith Master
C)the Fucker hade vader nuff said

[Illuminatus Primus]

How do you know Darth Plagueis was more powerful than Palpatine? Palpatine could have just been bullshitting Anakin; afterall, Qui-Gon's "immortality can come only through the light side" would seem to affirmatively state that Anakin's/Sidious' ambition was futile and impossible. The fact Darth Plagueis had a particularly unusual or powerful talent does not imply in general he was more powerful or stronger. Plagueis might be older, more experienced in the Force, than Sidious is in ROTS.

There's always more if you look beyond the most superficial, Stravo.

[Stravo]

How do you know Darth Plagueis was more powerful than Palpatine? Palpatine could have just been bullshitting Anakin; afterall, Qui-Gon's "immortality can come only through the light side" would seem to affirmatively state that Anakin's/Sidious' ambition was futile and impossible. The fact Darth Plagueis had a particularly unusual or powerful talent does not imply in general he was more powerful or stronger. Plagueis might be older, more experienced in the Force, than Sidious is in ROTS.

There's always more if you look beyond the most superficial, Stravo.

How is it that immortality only comes from the lightside? If we take Palpatine's statement at face value (iffy I know) then there's obviously a darkside equivalent to immortality.

Perhaps the lightside equivalent of immortality is life as ghost while the dark side equivalent is more tangible like keeping your body going or dare I even suggest it - shunting your life force into another body.

If the dark side and light side are equal and opposite then there must be a darkside equivalent to the lightside immortality that Qui Gon discovers.

If you have discovered the secret of life I would suggest that makes you more powerful than someone that can just fry life with lightning while screaming like a four color comic villain. It's not just a 'trick' to create life. If we believe that Plagueus created Anakin that's one HELL of a trick. Imagine creating an army of Anakins.

[Illuminatus Primus]

How is it that immortality only comes from the lightside? If we take Palpatine's statement at face value (iffy I know) then there's obviously a darkside equivalent to immortality.

And so Qui-Gon's wrong? Taken a choice between which is wrong, I think its best to go with Sidious; afterall he never knew the power by his own admission, and never does.

If we believe that Plagueus created Anakin that's one HELL of a trick. Imagine creating an army of Anakins.

Its called the no-limit fallacy. And besides, unless the create Anakin trick was some sort of bizarre delayed on-set trick with a timer for 10 years or more, Plagueis could not have made Anakin due to time constraints.

[Stravo]

How is it that immortality only comes from the lightside? If we take Palpatine's statement at face value (iffy I know) then there's obviously a darkside equivalent to immortality.

And so Qui-Gon's wrong? Taken a choice between which is wrong, I think its best to go with Sidious; afterall he never knew the power by his own admission, and never does.

I don't need to rely on Qui Gon or Palpatine to know that the Dark side is equal and opposite to the lights side and there are equivalent powers on each side of the coin. To give the lightside sole right to immortality defies this convention that has been with us since 1977.

[Solauren]

Not nessacarily.

Anakin was 10 at the start of TMP.

Maul was what, mid 20's?

It would be very simple for Palpatine to have been planning to kill Plagerious for YEARS prior to doing so.

A good timeline might be.
Plagerious trains Palpatine
Palpatine (as the apprentice) enters politics and discovers the future Darth Maul. He begins training him for his eventually removal of Plagerious (perhaps even planning on having Maul do it)
Plagerious creates Anakin via the Force.
Palpatine, realising that Plagerous is not moving the Sith plan along, and is instead making Babies with slave woman via the Force, kills him after studying as much of his force knowledge as he can
a few years later, we move on to the Phantom Menace.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't need to rely on Qui Gon or Palpatine to know that the Dark side is equal and opposite to the lights side and there are equivalent powers on each side of the coin. To give the lightside sole right to immortality defies this convention that has been with us since 1977.

Wouldn't be the first time the Flanneled One contradicted himself.

[Stravo]

I don't need to rely on Qui Gon or Palpatine to know that the Dark side is equal and opposite to the lights side and there are equivalent powers on each side of the coin. To give the lightside sole right to immortality defies this convention that has been with us since 1977.

Wouldn't be the first time the Flanneled One contradicted himself.

And since there is not a stated contradiction that's a non starter.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Not nessacarily.

Anakin was 10 at the start of TMP.

Maul was what, mid 20's?

It would be very simple for Palpatine to have been planning to kill Plagerious for YEARS prior to doing so.

A good timeline might be.
Plagerious trains Palpatine
Palpatine (as the apprentice) enters politics and discovers the future Darth Maul. He begins training him for his eventually removal of Plagerious (perhaps even planning on having Maul do it)
Plagerious creates Anakin via the Force.
Palpatine, realising that Plagerous is not moving the Sith plan along, and is instead making Babies with slave woman via the Force, kills him after studying as much of his force knowledge as he can
a few years later, we move on to the Phantom Menace.

No. Sidious WAS Sith Master when he took Maul as his apprentice, and is never known to have violated the Rule of Two; your theory unnecessarily breaks otherwise consistent convention and adds assumptions for no real reason but qualitative "vibe" from one scene in ROTS.

[Stark]

There's a difference between knowledge and power. Plaugieus found the 'secret' of necro, but that doesn't mean he was more powerful than Sidious. Indeed, since Sidious keeps upgrading, and doesn't mind his apprentice being more powerful, it doesn't seem unlikely.

[Seggybop]

Is there any chance the Dark Side Immortality deal is simply the clone-transferrance technique used by Palpatine in Dark Empire? ROTS takes a lot of ideas from that book.

[Illuminatus Primus]

No, Sidious describes it as literally using the Force to will dying beings to not die but to live. Sidious doesn't figure out how to transfer his essence until he tortures Master Boda to death.

[Stormbringer]

How is it that immortality only comes from the lightside? If we take Palpatine's statement at face value (iffy I know) then there's obviously a darkside equivalent to immortality.

My guess would be it's the difference between Dracula and Jesus to use a crude metaphor. One's in a state of un-death, not truly living as we understand it, and the other is dead but an immortal spirit. The dark side is one of corruption, desctruction, and evil; the light side is contrarily one of morality, preservation and nurturing, and good. I would be very suprised if the two operate in the same way.

Certainly what we've seen of the dead, and even the Dark Side Tree, suggest that the Dark Side works differently when it comes to death. Exar Kun and Naga Sadow both seemed more the unquiet dead like than the Force Ghost's of Yoda, Anakin, and Obi-wan.

That's assuming of course Palpatine wasn't pulling shit out of his ass. That's always a possibility, even more so since he knew he wouldn't have to actually fufill his promise.

[Guardsman Bass]

Wasn't Exar Kun a ghost (since he seemed to at least partially possess Kyp Durron)?

[Stormbringer]

Wasn't Exar Kun a ghost (since he seemed to at least partially possess Kyp Durron)?

Yes, though one with far more presence than most typical ghosts. And with a lot of vampiric stuff thrown in.

[Spartan]

First, the Palpatine was stated to be the most powerful user of the darkside ever and considered a savant; as per Dark Empire. Was he the Sith equivalent of the Chosen One...your damn skippy!


Second, Qui-gon is wrong, the Sith doe have immortality. Just look at all the 5,000+ year old specters on Korriban. They are still powerful enough to, teach new Sith, or kill anyone who pisses them off. The difference here is that unlike the Jedi version they don't disappear, instead they leave behind: dessicated corpses, mummys, sacophagous, and mausolium to focus there power after death. The Sith are all about using Alchemy, technology, totems, and the odd crystal. If you have a Talisman on strange and wonderous power then yes you can live on in the darkside. It's been, and it still can be done.


If I am not mistake even holocrons technology (stupid crystals) capture some of the person making the recordings essense (damn if that doesn't sound like a level 10 wizard making a magic item).

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't need to rely on Qui Gon or Palpatine to know that the Dark side is equal and opposite to the lights side and there are equivalent powers on each side of the coin. To give the lightside sole right to immortality defies this convention that has been with us since 1977.

Wouldn't be the first time the Flanneled One contradicted himself.

And since there is not a stated contradiction that's a non starter.

Really? You YOURSELF have noted him saying "the dark side is stronger" in interviews despite having Yoda say its not in TESB. He line-edits ROTS novelisation and allows Qui-Gon to state that immortality is light-side ONLY. Deal with it.

[NecronLord]

It's always possible, likely even, that the Light Side balances simply because of the immortality.

[Eframepilot]

The best theory that I have heard about Palpatine is that Darth Plagueis created him with his life-generation by midichlorian control ability and took him as an apprentice; Anakin was then created by the Force to balance the scale. There is no backing for this in canon but it works mythically.

[Cykeisme]

It's always possible, likely even, that the Light Side balances simply because of the immortality.

The disturbing power of the Dark Side in combat seems to support this idea, though I'm not sure about it.

When GL said that immortality was Light Side only, I think it's because he wanted to draw closure at the end of RotJ: Darth Sidious is dead, and is never coming back.

[Darksider]

Except in Dark Empire, and Dark Empie II. Oh, and Empire's End

But he does eventually die a "final" death, never truely becoming a force spirit like Obi or Yoda.

His "Immortality" only lasted as long as his clone bodies

[Stravo]

Wouldn't be the first time the Flanneled One contradicted himself.

And since there is not a stated contradiction that's a non starter.

Really? You YOURSELF have noted him saying "the dark side is stronger" in interviews despite having Yoda say its not in TESB. He line-edits ROTS novelisation and allows Qui-Gon to state that immortality is light-side ONLY. Deal with it.

Really, so Mr. EU MUST be intergrated how do we deal with Exar Kun and the other Sith ghosts we see littered throughout your EU?

[Ghost Rider]

An interesting note of Force spirits.

Marko Ragnos, Exar Kun and the others within Korriban were stuck in a specfic area. While they could manipulate the physical world, they could not do any such beyond the confines of a very small area. They could take over minds and bodies but not beyond that area.

Another bit of note that in Splinter of the Mind's eye, Obi Wan was able to take over Luke and allow him to defeat Darth Vader. Giving a demonstratably greater power then what was demonstarted of any Sith Lord, barring Palpatine who when took over another body, made it go instantly insane.

[Manus Celer Dei]

And since there is not a stated contradiction that's a non starter.

Really? You YOURSELF have noted him saying "the dark side is stronger" in interviews despite having Yoda say its not in TESB. He line-edits ROTS novelisation and allows Qui-Gon to state that immortality is light-side ONLY. Deal with it.

Really, so Mr. EU MUST be intergrated how do we deal with Exar Kun and the other Sith ghosts we see littered throughout your EU?

Don't the novelisations take precedence over the rest of the EU in case of a contradiction?