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This may have been asked before, but who would be among the best of the NJO Jedi, curiously?

Up until his death, Anakin Solo would be the one with the greatest potiental.

However, overall, Luke is still tops, probably with Kyp Durran, Kyle Katarn (based on the Jedi Knight video games), the Solo twins, and potentially Tahiri

Anakin was thought to be the one who would take Luke's place as most powerful Jedi, were Luke to die. I'm guessing maybe Jacen or Jaina might be the best. Jacen's views on the Force were interesting.

Anakin Solo, followed by Jacen Solo ONLY after Vergere's tutoring.

The final Onimi vs Jacen battle is spectacularly written. Jacen probably has the most force power in terms of his skill out of any Jedi at this point, as he can use the force in ways the others can't. Jaina is the best in combat. Anakin had the most raw power ignoring Kyp Durron. Anakin just rocked. Till he died (where he took on an army of Vong).

The most powerful (not raw force power mind you) has GOT to be Vergere before she died however. I mean, come on. She can reorganize individual MOLECULES using the force. She can practically make herself invisible to the point that even the most powerful Jedi fail to detect her.

Praxis wrote:The most powerful (not raw force power mind you) has GOT to be Vergere before she died however. I mean, come on. She can reorganize individual MOLECULES using the force. She can practically make herself invisible to the point that even the most powerful Jedi fail to detect her.

If it is not in raw Force power, then shouldn't "skilled" be a better term?

Anyway, I'm more interested in her Alchemy. Are you referring to those healing tears she makes, or something else?

montypython wrote:This may have been asked before, but who would be among the best of the NJO Jedi, curiously?

Not quite what you asking for, but I always though Gannon was the best written character. They fleshed him out really well, not some two diamentional character, but depth.

I liked him alot and though he was one of the better characters in the NJO. I was happy that they killed him and sad at the same time. It was a good death and a good way for his character development to go. But he's dead now and he was really one of my favorite characters in the series.

Knife wrote:Not quite what you asking for, but I always though Gannon was the best written character. They fleshed him out really well, not some two diamentional character, but depth.

Ganner?

Caius wrote:

Knife wrote:Not quite what you asking for, but I always though Gannon was the best written character. They fleshed him out really well, not some two diamentional character, but depth.

Ganner?

Yeah, him.

[Jedi mind trick]Move along. Move along people. There is nothing to see here.[/Jedi mind trick]

Knife wrote:

montypython wrote:This may have been asked before, but who would be among the best of the NJO Jedi, curiously?

Not quite what you asking for, but I always though Gannon was the best written character. They fleshed him out really well, not some two diamentional character, but depth.

I liked him alot and though he was one of the better characters in the NJO. I was happy that they killed him and sad at the same time. It was a good death and a good way for his character development to go. But he's dead now and he was really one of my favorite characters in the series.

Ganner kicked ass. Although his character development was really just him getting slashed in the face in Onslaught and then some impressive ret-conning in Traitor.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:

Praxis wrote:The most powerful (not raw force power mind you) has GOT to be Vergere before she died however. I mean, come on. She can reorganize individual MOLECULES using the force. She can practically make herself invisible to the point that even the most powerful Jedi fail to detect her.

If it is not in raw Force power, then shouldn't "skilled" be a better term?

Anyway, I'm more interested in her Alchemy. Are you referring to those healing tears she makes, or something else?

The healing tears and the way she could easily neutralize chemicals like Alpha Red by reforming thier molecules.

It is power, simply because even a Jedi like Luke or Kyp with more raw force power would get completely owned by her. They'd be unable to actually hit her with any force attacks, nor sense her in combat.

Crazedwraith wrote:

Knife wrote:

montypython wrote:This may have been asked before, but who would be among the best of the NJO Jedi, curiously?

Not quite what you asking for, but I always though Gannon was the best written character. They fleshed him out really well, not some two diamentional character, but depth.

I liked him alot and though he was one of the better characters in the NJO. I was happy that they killed him and sad at the same time. It was a good death and a good way for his character development to go. But he's dead now and he was really one of my favorite characters in the series.

Ganner kicked ass. Although his character development was really just him getting slashed in the face in Onslaught and then some impressive ret-conning in Traitor.

Ganner sucked (in terms of combat) with the sole exception of Traitor, where he was awesome.

Praxis wrote:The healing tears and the way she could easily neutralize chemicals like Alpha Red by reforming thier molecules.

On what scale? Limited alchemy had in fact been done before by ordinary Jedi, say Luke with the castle by rearranging the mineral structure (Before the Storm), and every hastily made lightsaber apparently involved some "ritualized" alchemy to help the bonds (I, Jedi).

Still, it is an impressive trick.

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:

Praxis wrote:The healing tears and the way she could easily neutralize chemicals like Alpha Red by reforming thier molecules.

On what scale? Limited alchemy had in fact been done before by ordinary Jedi, say Luke with the castle by rearranging the mineral structure (Before the Storm), and every hastily made lightsaber apparently involved some "ritualized" alchemy to help the bonds (I, Jedi).

Still, it is an impressive trick.

She neutralized ALL of Alpha Red. The entire batch that they had, everything they had made. Since the NR intended to use this to commit mass genocide on thousands of worlds it is unlikely it is a small amount.

It's hardly limited. She completely reformed the molecules into something else.

And her force abilities are so above Luke it's not even funny. Not raw force powers, just technique. She could hide herself to the point that Luke could not even sense anything about her in the force. She was able to hide on a NR cruiser FULL of Jedi without *one* picking her up. She can modify the molecules in her own tears to make nearly any substance she wants, including antidotes to poisons. It's far beyond the training of any Jedi I've seen.

Praxis wrote:She neutralized ALL of Alpha Red. The entire batch that they had, everything they had made. Since the NR intended to use this to commit mass genocide on thousands of worlds it is unlikely it is a small amount.

It's hardly limited. She completely reformed the molecules into something else.

And her force abilities are so above Luke it's not even funny. Not raw force powers, just technique. She could hide herself to the point that Luke could not even sense anything about her in the force. She was able to hide on a NR cruiser FULL of Jedi without *one* picking her up. She can modify the molecules in her own tears to make nearly any substance she wants, including antidotes to poisons. It's far beyond the training of any Jedi I've seen.

Now I'm very interested. What books will I have to buy to read this firsthand? Will I get any details? Or is it like "She meditated in front of the Alpha Red and it turned into water?"

lol, no, they don't give a firsthand description, since she essentially breaks in and avoids all detection. They just find the results of her work.

This occurs in Destiny's Way, one of the best of the NJO books. There's a lot about Vergere's theories of the force in that book, as well as Traitor (which sadly, is not as enjoyable of a read).

All the stuff I mention is in Destiny's Way though. IIRC it's the 15th or something book in the NJO series.

Although Vergere is all over NJO. She has a brief cameo in the fourth and fifth books, which sucked, and they don't tell us she's a Jedi. Her biggest roles would be from Star by Star to Destiny's Way. Destiny's Way is definitely the peak.

It's not every Jedi that can eavesdrop on Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade without being detected

IMO the three best NJO books are Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force. TUF shows what Jacen is capable of with what he learned from her. TUF established Jacen as the strongest Jedi after his tutorship from Vergere.

Praxis wrote: The most powerful (not raw force power mind you) has GOT to be Vergere before she died however. I mean, come on. She can reorganize individual MOLECULES using the force. She can practically make herself invisible to the point that even the most powerful Jedi fail to detect her.

Techically though Vergere's an old Republic Jedi and desn't count as the best of the New Jedi Order

Praxis wrote:This occurs in Destiny's Way, one of the best of the NJO books. There's a lot about Vergere's theories of the force in that book, as well as Traitor (which sadly, is not as enjoyable of a read).

Good, I've been meaning to get Destiny's Way sometime. I think I already saw it in the local bookshop, but at that time I decided to place my limited resources on buying the older Bantam pre-NJO books seeing they are more likely to disappear and never come back (I bought I, Jedi in the hopes of being able to see something of how Luke trains Jedi without buying the KJA trilogy on the same subject). I'd check it to see if it is still there.

The "Tear Alchemist" ... here I come...

I've always been a big fan of the Jedi Who Was Shaped, Tahiri. A decent Jedi in her own right, she hhelped destroy the Voxen(sp?) but she also has the skills and memories of a Vong warrior. When she finally manages to merge her two persona's she kicks major ass.

I always liked Corran Horn through the series. He was interesting and could kick some but when needed. He wasn't the most powerful, but I enjoyed him in the "master jedi" role better than Luke. Luke seriously bothered me throughout the whole series.

I still wish they had not killed Anakin or else he would probably have been the most powerful. But then you'd have people going on about similarities between Anakin Solo and Anakin Skywalker.

It's clear that they set Jacen up to be the most powerful at the end of the series.

Horn got better once Stackpole took his hands of his own penis and stopped writting him, but even then he was like an irritating scratch you just couldn't reach.

Ben Skywalker ... serioiusly he was the only one that didn't piss me off.

Praxis wrote:It is power, simply because even a Jedi like Luke or Kyp with more raw force power would get completely owned by her. They'd be unable to actually hit her with any force attacks, nor sense her in combat.

Please don't let NJO bullshit about a Jedi needing to sense a being in order for them to be combat effective seep into your decision making process. In TPM we are told Anakin is special because he can see things before they happen, get it? Also I would imagine what that little turd would look like when Luke starts throwing good sized boulders at her ala Darth Sidious in RotS.

Crown wrote:Ben Skywalker ... serioiusly he was the only one that didn't piss me off.

Praxis wrote:It is power, simply because even a Jedi like Luke or Kyp with more raw force power would get completely owned by her. They'd be unable to actually hit her with any force attacks, nor sense her in combat.

Please don't let NJO bullshit about a Jedi needing to sense a being in order for them to be combat effective seep into your decision making process. In TPM we are told Anakin is special because he can see things before they happen, get it? Also I would imagine what that little turd would look like when Luke starts throwing good sized boulders at her ala Darth Sidious in RotS.

Thats definitely true. It's just in Jedi vs Jedi combat it's even easier when you can sense precisely what your opponent is thinking. It's an added advantage. You don't NEED to sense a being in order to combat them, but it gives you an added advantage. For example if your opponent jumps out of sight, and you can't see them, you're stuck. And you can't use the force to affect their MIND if you can't sense them. THAT was Vergere's trick.

Caius wrote:I always liked Corran Horn through the series. He was interesting and could kick some but when needed. He wasn't the most powerful, but I enjoyed him in the "master jedi" role better than Luke. Luke seriously bothered me throughout the whole series.

I still wish they had not killed Anakin or else he would probably have been the most powerful. But then you'd have people going on about similarities between Anakin Solo and Anakin Skywalker.

It's clear that they set Jacen up to be the most powerful at the end of the series.

Corran Horn rocked in NJO.
He basicly had the wisdom/skill of Luke, weaker force powers, far more experience, more intelligence and WAY more common sense.


Luke was a baby. "Well, these guys are committing genocide, but we're not going to stop them, because if we kill them to stop them from killing others we'll all go to the DARK SIDE!"

I mean, honestly, how could Luke think that between the possibility of going to the dark side, or letting EVER SENTIENT BEING IN THE GALAXY DIE, that letting everyone die is the lesser evil?

Praxis wrote:Thats definitely true. It's just in Jedi vs Jedi combat it's even easier when you can sense precisely what your opponent is thinking. It's an added advantage. You don't NEED to sense a being in order to combat them, but it gives you an added advantage. For example if your opponent jumps out of sight, and you can't see them, you're stuck.

Again, I don't mean to be combative but it's a bunch of horseshit the NJO was rife with that I rather stamp out when I spot it, please watch the movies. Luke can not read the remote's mind, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Qui-Gon can not read the battle droids' minds. And yet they have absolutely no problem with blocking their fire.

In RotS, when Darth Vader was through butchering the Seperatist leadership there was a single battledroid left in the room, he turns his back on it, and still manages to block the blaster bolt.

Besides on Jedi vs Sith, I don't think 'mind reading' would be that easy while you're trying your hardest to not get sliced and diced. It's the Force guiding their hands. My number 1 reason for hating the NJO that whole 'sense' bullshit, was.

Praxis wrote:And you can't use the force to affect their MIND if you can't sense them. THAT was Vergere's trick.

This one I'll conceed, but I think that it's of limited affectiveness during a furball brawl.

Crown wrote:

Praxis wrote:Thats definitely true. It's just in Jedi vs Jedi combat it's even easier when you can sense precisely what your opponent is thinking. It's an added advantage. You don't NEED to sense a being in order to combat them, but it gives you an added advantage. For example if your opponent jumps out of sight, and you can't see them, you're stuck.

Again, I don't mean to be combative but it's a bunch of horseshit the NJO was rife with that I rather stamp out when I spot it, please watch the movies. Luke can not read the remote's mind, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Qui-Gon can not read the battle droids' minds. And yet they have absolutely no problem with blocking their fire.

Just palying Devil's advocate here but having minds or not droids still exist in the force the Vong do not. Jedi still only have precog agasint them but the lack of force dampens it down so it only tris their danger sense at the last second.