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RotS ICS error?
Posted: 2005-05-27 05:14pm
by NecronLord
Is this a printing error in my copy, or does everyone else have, on page 28, the following line, regarding Palpatine's shuttle:
Hyperdrive: class 1: 8,000 light-year range.
This strikes me as absurd, given that the shuttle flew from Coruscant to the Outer Rim without any known refueling. Is this 80,000 in other copies perhaps?
Re: RotS ICS error?
Posted: 2005-05-27 05:19pm
by Luzifer's right hand
NecronLord wrote:Is this a printing error in my copy, or does everyone else have, on page 28, the following line, regarding Palpatine's shuttle:
Hyperdrive: class 1: 8,000 light-year range.
This strikes me as absurd, given that the shuttle flew from Coruscant to the Outer Rim without any known refueling. Is this 80,000 in other copies perhaps?
It's also 8,000 light years in my copy.
Maybe the shuttle traveled inside another ship to the Outer Rim?
Posted: 2005-05-27 05:22pm
by NecronLord
Humm. Time for me to e-mail Dr Saxton and ask if he knows something the rest of us don't.
Posted: 2005-05-27 05:24pm
by Ender
perhaps its per jump and it made multiple jumps. Clarification would be nice though.
Posted: 2005-05-27 06:09pm
by NecronLord
That's that sent, I added a link to this thread too. I'll post the response here if I get one.
Posted: 2005-05-27 11:58pm
by Vympel
I see no reason to think that it didn't just go up to an orbiting carrier ship, RotJ style. Vader didn't arrive on the Death Star II by coming straight in a shuttle either.
Posted: 2005-05-28 12:21am
by Stofsk
Where is Mustafar in relation to Coruscant? Do we know it is in the Outer Rim?
Posted: 2005-05-28 12:28am
by Spanky The Dolphin
Stofsk wrote:Where is Mustafar in relation to Coruscant? Do we know it is in the Outer Rim?
We don't know anything like that yet, until they make a RotS ITW (which they better add the planet locations they skipped over for the OT ITW...)
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:10am
by Vympel
It's in the Outer Rim. Grievous says so to the Separatist Council.
Posted: 2005-05-28 05:42am
by NecronLord
And the answer:
Dr. Saxton wrote:This is a good query. The hyperdrive range is not an error. As the nautical name implies, a "shuttle" is not meant for long-range travel. This kind of ship shuttles people between nearby ports or between a
mothership and a port.
Palpatine's Theta-class shuttle in ROTS has approximately the same capabilities as his Lambda-class shuttle in ROTJ.
* In ROTJ, he voyaged from Coruscant to the Outer Rim aboard the
Executor. He used his shuttle to transfer from Coruscant to Executor, and
then from Executor to the Death Star 2.
* In ROTS, he used a Theta-class shuttle to transfer from Coruscant to
another large mothership (unseen in the film), which jumped to Mustafar.
He takes the shuttle down to the surface to collect Vader, and returns to
the mothership. This ship then jumps back to Coruscant, etc.
.......
The same is true of the V-wing fighters that escort the shuttle to its
landing in Imperial City. They deploy from the naval vessel. A manned
fighter that size is incapable of hyperdrive, and needs to ride a larger
ship or hyperdrive ring. No amount of expense can avoid the physical
limitation.
The visual dictionary was wrong (confused) on that point. This is
pardonable because all the writers are buffeted by suggestions from many
quarters (some of them ill-informed) and the manuscripts need to be
finalised months before the film is finished!
If (off camera) any of the V-wings _had_ jumped in parallel to Palpatine's
flagship (rather than riding it) then they must have used hyperdrive
rings. This is a redundant point; I believe there wasn't any such jump
filmed (let alone filmed & cut). I specifically sought confirmation from
LF when I was writing ROTS:ICS.
I hope this helps,
Curtis Saxton.
PS: I was never given any reference images for the appearance of
Palpatine's flagship in ROTS. That subject wasn't ready at the time when
the ROTS:ICS manuscript deadline.
If I were forced to guess, the ship is probably something like what
carried Palpatine, Vader and Tarkin on their inspection of the Separatist
"Great Weapon". The curved bridge interior seen at the end of the film is
inconsistent with all the surfaces of the Venator destroyers (which only
allow for rectangular bridge structures).
Since the exterior of this ship never appears on-screen, I guess that it's
now unlikely to be developed and shown in any medium.
If we're
extremely lucky, someone might include late-developed concept art on the
DVD extras. With few constraints, apart from KDY architecture, I imageine
that the ship could be like any of the large multi-mile vessels we've
already seen in the literature. It should be whatever is the Clone Wars
equivalent of the Executor; maybe a Mandator-II.
You may post my replies to Michael Wong's forums if you like. Nothing I
said is specially secret.
Regards,
Curtis Saxton.
Posted: 2005-05-28 09:31am
by Cykeisme
Curtis Saxton wrote:The same is true of the V-wing fighters that escort the shuttle to its
landing in Imperial City. They deploy from the naval vessel. A manned
fighter that size is incapable of hyperdrive, and needs to ride a larger
ship or hyperdrive ring. No amount of expense can avoid the physical
limitation.
Are the V-Wings much smaller than the X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, Naboo starfighter and Darth Vader's X1 Advanced TIE fighter? If 'I'm not mistaken, those have hyperdrives
Posted: 2005-05-28 10:36am
by The Original Nex
Cykeisme wrote:Curtis Saxton wrote:The same is true of the V-wing fighters that escort the shuttle to its
landing in Imperial City. They deploy from the naval vessel. A manned
fighter that size is incapable of hyperdrive, and needs to ride a larger
ship or hyperdrive ring. No amount of expense can avoid the physical
limitation.
Are the V-Wings much smaller than the X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, Naboo starfighter and Darth Vader's X1 Advanced TIE fighter? If 'I'm not mistaken, those have hyperdrives
This simply implies an improvement in Hyperdrive modularity between RotS and RotJ.
And since the Shuttle
Tydirium did in fact make a hyperdrive jump frm Sullust to Endor Sullust must be < 8000ly from Endor.
Posted: 2005-05-28 12:06pm
by Ender
Interesting. Though couldn't the place they were at be that rounded bump on the forward face of the terrence coverings on the Venator? It's kinda rounded, I remember arguing on TFN that someone who wanted to ignore the ICS and claim that was the bridge couldn't, but cold it be some kind of backup, like the General's tower on the IH, or Thrawn's quarters?
Now I have to wonder how the hyperdrive ranges are determined though. Since the OT ICS describes hyperdrive as an energy effect, perhaps it corresponds to peak power or some such.
Posted: 2005-05-28 12:22pm
by FTeik
According to the ROTJ-novel the distance between Endor and Sullust (from where the Tydirium launched) is measured in the "hundreds" of lightyears. So at maximum we look at thousand lightyears the shuttle covered.
Posted: 2005-05-28 12:45pm
by Vympel
Them using the curved bridge when they clearly intended for Vader and Palpatine to be on a Venator annoys me- just like them giving Grievous lightsabres identical to Anakin and Obi-Wan's annoys me.
Posted: 2005-05-28 12:58pm
by NecronLord
The Original Nex wrote:And since the Shuttle Tydirium did in fact make a hyperdrive jump frm Sullust to Endor Sullust must be < 8000ly from Endor.
According to Dr Saxton, the jump from Sullust to Endor is only a few hundred light years. He suggests that either the NJO map is wrong, or that there are multiple Sullusts, a theory supported by canon, as the moon Sulon (homeworld of Kyle Katarn) orbits a 'Sullust' that is a gas giant, whereas there are also Sullustans who can clearly not have come from a gas giant (lacking as it does, a surface).
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:19pm
by Mange
NecronLord wrote:The Original Nex wrote:And since the Shuttle Tydirium did in fact make a hyperdrive jump frm Sullust to Endor Sullust must be < 8000ly from Endor.
According to Dr Saxton, the jump from Sullust to Endor is only a few hundred light years. He suggests that either the NJO map is wrong, or that there are multiple Sullusts, a theory supported by canon, as the moon Sulon (homeworld of Kyle Katarn) orbits a 'Sullust' that is a gas giant, whereas there are also Sullustans who can clearly not have come from a gas giant (lacking as it does, a surface).
The NJO map is clearly wrong as the map in Padmé's yacht a.o. shows the location of Tatooine in a different place altogether. The Insider map seems more consistent than the NJO map.
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:22pm
by Cykeisme
Just for confirmation, the Sullust around which the Rebel fleet had gathered was the same one from which Nien Nunb hailed, right?
The Original Nex wrote:Cykeisme wrote:Curtis Saxton wrote:The same is true of the V-wing fighters that escort the shuttle to its
landing in Imperial City. They deploy from the naval vessel. A manned
fighter that size is incapable of hyperdrive, and needs to ride a larger
ship or hyperdrive ring. No amount of expense can avoid the physical
limitation.
Are the V-Wings much smaller than the X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, Naboo starfighter and Darth Vader's X1 Advanced TIE fighter? If 'I'm not mistaken, those have hyperdrives
This simply implies an improvement in Hyperdrive modularity between RotS and RotJ.
I remember reading on this forum that a source pegs the Naboo N-1 starfighter as having a hyperdrive. If I'm not mistaken, the source was the TPM ICS.. can someone check for me?
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:23pm
by Illuminatus Primus
The Insider map is better, but still bloody wrong. Just look at its methodology; a cleaned up version of the NJO cartoon map (2-D) is overlayed over a side-view of that disk from above the plane of rotation. As a result its completed distorted in proportion and perspective, having the nice qualities of having several regions inside the "bulge" when only the Deep Core should be, among other imbecilic mistakes.
The most major dead give-away its an unrealistic map is it presumes, like the NJO cartoon map, there is nothing "behind" the bulge.
And the greatest problem of all is they used an image of the disk object from the end of TESB. Its arms are wrapped too tightly, the bulge is too big, and IT SPINS IN REAL TIME, so its obviously not the galaxy.
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:38pm
by Knife
Cykeisme wrote:I remember reading on this forum that a source pegs the Naboo N-1 starfighter as having a hyperdrive. If I'm not mistaken, the source was the TPM ICS.. can someone check for me?
AotC's has it with a hyperdrive jumps limited to 1000 ly's and able to dock with the Naboo cruiser for extended jumps. It's short range probable due to lack of power from lack of size to put such a power source.
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:48pm
by Cykeisme
Hrm, ok then.. I guess fighter-sized hyperdrives are limited in range, but not impossible.
Edit: Are Hoth and Dagobah near?
Posted: 2005-05-28 01:52pm
by NecronLord
Cykeisme wrote:Edit: Are Hoth and Dagobah near?
Right next door.
Posted: 2005-05-28 02:51pm
by Luzifer's right hand
Illuminatus Primus wrote:And the greatest problem of all is they used an image of the disk object from the end of TESB. Its arms are wrapped too tightly, the bulge is too big, and IT SPINS IN REAL TIME, so its obviously not the galaxy.
What is this thing? I saw the same fast spinning object on a small screen during RoTS(IIRC).
Posted: 2005-05-28 03:36pm
by The Original Nex
What is this thing? I saw the same fast spinning object on a small screen during RoTS(IIRC).
One of the sattelite galaxies which loosely orbits the SW Galaxy.
Posted: 2005-05-28 03:40pm
by Utsanomiko
The Original Nex wrote:What is this thing? I saw the same fast spinning object on a small screen during RoTS(IIRC).
One of the sattelite galaxies which loosely orbits the SW Galaxy.
It's still moving way too fast for that scale. It's most likely some sort of stellar object. It's typically referred to as a 'nebula' but coulds be a type of proto-star.