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Some of the issues that I had with the decisions regarding Anakin's offspring.

Keeping in mind that the overall concern was to keep the children out of the reach of the Sith as per Yoda why were the following decisions made:


Not changing Luke's last name. Why didn't they simply call him Luke Lars? Calling him Skywalker just makes it that much easier to raise some flags. What if there is an Imperial census? Skywalker from Tatooine may draw unwanted attention from prying eyes. What if there is a draft? A Private Skywalker from Tatooine may warrant some attention by interested parties.

And from a much more minor slant frankly wouldn't it have been easier for all involved for Luke to think that Owen and Beru were his actual parents? It would keep Luke from inquiring after his dear old dad and make him less of a dreamer if he didn't have a sense that he didn't belong on Tatooine. (Yoda seemed to think this was a character flaw in ESB)


Leia adopted by Bail Organna. The over riding concern is keeping the children safe from the Sith - in Obi Wan's words Far from where the Sith might detect them. Ohhhohhhh I know...how about in the household of one of the more prominent senators in the Rpeublic. Occasionally she would have to make appearanced at dinners or receptions where the Emperor himself or more likely his agents would attend. If we assume Leia is as powerful as Luke, and there is no reason to not think so, let's remember that Vader detected Luke's force sensitivity in the midst of fighter combat, I would think hanging out at a dinner party would make things easier for him to detect.

I find it odd that you send one child out to the Outer Rim, a logical choice if you want them away from the Sith (But then it's one of the Sith Lord's homeworlds so bzzztttt on that one) yet the other child is raised basically in the Core, in the middle of Imperial High Society giving the Sith access to this child.


Allowing Luke to apply to the Academy - Yes, I am well aware that Owen was very resistant to allowing Luke to go but frankly Luke was reaching that age where Owen may not have been able to stop him. Yet Owen was ready and willing to let Luke apply next year. This leads to the obvious issues of having a Skywalker from Tatooine signing up. Owen could have said something like "Our family has some issues in the Imperial hierarchy, I think your dad or some crazy uncle was wnated by the Imperials and they might take it out on you. How about joining up with some Corporate Sector guys if you really want to get off world?"



Allowing Leia to become a Senator - This far more than the Luke one bugs me to this day. You just went through armageddon with trying to smuggle those children away from the Sith, you know damn well what the Sith would do if they found them yet not only do you allow one of them to be raised in the very belly of the beast but then you let her be seen and heard by these self same Sith. In fact she spouts some pretty rebel friendly stuff and is virtually considered a member of the Alliance "You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor - take her away!" putting her squarely in the Emperor's and Vader's sights - something that Luke would not do anywhere as easily being a faceless recruit in the Imperial military - and opening up the possibility of them ferreting her identity out.

Again I point to the Vader detecting Luke's force sensitivity in the heat of combat at a distance to show how brightly Luke shone. For now I have no idea how to explain Leia's captivity on the DSI and not tripping the "The Force is strong in this one."


In the end even if Vader and Palpatine did not think Luke or Leia were Vader's children Palpatine might hungrily eye these new possible apprentices. Also we know that the over riding concern with splitting the children up and hiding them was keeping them where the Sith would not detect them did their decisions -especially in regard to Leia - make sense?

Didn't Vader detect Luke after he was told by Obi-Wan to "use the Force"? If that's the case, Vader probably only felt it because Luke was tapping into the Force. Remember that he didn't detect Luke at all during the battle of Yavin or on the Death Star.

Edit: I really need to start remembering to get to the point...

If it takes a direct tapping of the Force to draw Vader's attention, it wouldn't be a surprise that Leia wouldn't be easily detectable, even in the proximity she would have with with Vader and Palatine.

And something I just remembered: Leia was both physically close to and the object of attention from Vader for a while after the Tantive IV was captured, and Vader showed no sign of recognising her Force sensitivity.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:Didn't Vader detect Luke after he was told by Obi-Wan to "use the Force"? If that's the case, Vader probably only felt it because Luke was tapping into the Force. Remember that he didn't detect Luke at all during the battle of Yavin or on the Death Star.

He was more preoccupied with Obi-Wan at that point. Really, it's only when he heard the name "Skywalker" that he began his search- that and coupled with "the Force is strong with this one" in the trench run.

It is very likely That both Palpatine and Vader thought the children had never been born and died with Padme. If thats the case then:

-Leia passes as Bail's daughter, untrained in the Force she doesn't really give off enough of a "spark" so to speak that would distinguish her enough from many others. As a Senator she would have been in close quarters with the Emperor on multiple occaisions for sure, and possibly Vader before also.

-The Skywalker name not being changed, well, think of it this way. The name Skywalker means jack nothing to any Imperial except Vader and Palpatine really. Theres lots of imperial soldiers, Luke would probably have been caught in anonymity. It is also possible that Owen had been holding Luke back from joining for precisely that reason, Owen said he would let Luke join, but it was Beru who seemed more willing to let Luke go than Owen. "That's what I'm afraid of" he says after Beru says Luke is a lot like his father."

-There is also the possibility that Leia just doesn't have the same Force talent as Luke plain and simple. Her going undetected could be simply because she didn't inherit the same potential Luke did for whatever reason.

Skywalker may also be a somewhat common name in the Star Wars Universe.

The Spartan wrote:Skywalker may also be a somewhat common name in the Star Wars Universe.

It fits along with last names for families on Tatooine anyway. Skywalker, Darklighter, Sandskimmer (I think this was Falynns last name in the Wraith Squadron books), Fardreamer (Mechanic from "The New Rebellion"?).

Why would Skywalker be a unique surname in a galaxy of quintillions? And Vader only felt his son because he was using the Force in the trench; Leia wouldn't be using the Force in banquets or something.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why would Skywalker be a unique surname in a galaxy of quintillions? And Vader only felt his son because he was using the Force in the trench; Leia wouldn't be using the Force in banquets or something.

You're right. Silly me for taking Obi Wan's statement that the children must be hid from the detection of the Sith as meaning that the Sith could detect them for what they were. Thanks for clearing that up. Silly Obi Wan and GL for writing that line.

Darth Fanboy wrote:The Skywalker name not being changed, well, think of it this way. The name Skywalker means jack nothing to any Imperial except Vader and Palpatine really.

While I agree with most of your analysis, the RotS novelization is contrary on this point. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker were household names by the end of the Clone Wars:

RotS, pg. 4:

Anakin and Obi-Wan. Kenobi and Skywalker. From the beginning of the Clone Wars, the phrase Kenobi and Skywalker has become a single word. They are everywhere. HoloNet features of their operations against the Separatist enemy have made them the most famous Jedi in the galaxy.

Granted, Palpatine probably worked hard to erase their names from the public record after becoming Emperor, but unless the surname "Skywalker" is otherwise fairly common, it would still appear to have some risk attached to it.

Srynerson wrote:but unless the surname "Skywalker" is otherwise fairly common

Odds are it is.

IP said it best: "Why would Skywalker be a unique surname in a galaxy of quintillions?"

On the commonality of the Skywalker surname we are not talking about Skywalker from quintillions, we're talking about Skywalker from Tatooine. That's a lot more specific than a Skywalker from Kashyyk or parts unknown.

In the here and now we can set up computers to do web searches based on key phrases and the like on a daily basis. There is always the possibility that there is a search like this in place for key words like: Skywalker and Tatooine. A flag goes up somewhere meriting closer review. Considering what was at stake would you take that chance?

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

Srynerson wrote:but unless the surname "Skywalker" is otherwise fairly common

Odds are it is.

IP said it best: "Why would Skywalker be a unique surname in a galaxy of quintillions?"

Yes, I agree with that logic. I was merely indicating that the name "Skywalker" alone does not confer anonymity in the absence of some other mitigating factor, e.g., being a common name.

Stravo wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why would Skywalker be a unique surname in a galaxy of quintillions? And Vader only felt his son because he was using the Force in the trench; Leia wouldn't be using the Force in banquets or something.

You're right. Silly me for taking Obi Wan's statement that the children must be hid from the detection of the Sith as meaning that the Sith could detect them for what they were. Thanks for clearing that up. Silly Obi Wan and GL for writing that line.

Evidentally, dumbass, "hiding them from the Sith" qualified as keeping them away from the immediate proximity and training of Yoda and Obi-Wan, and keeping them out of the clutches of Imperial loyalists.

The idea that their mere presence would give them away is a fabrication of your own making, and no one else's. Vader was extensively exposed to Skywalker before the trench scene, and Leia as well. Its obvious that its the use and training of the Force and the immediate proximity to dangerous Jedi that would threaten the children, not merely physical proximity. I'm not responsible for your own contrivances.

Stravo wrote:On the commonality of the Skywalker surname we are not talking about Skywalker from quintillions, we're talking about Skywalker from Tatooine. That's a lot more specific than a Skywalker from Kashyyk or parts unknown.

And there's millions of people on Tattooine. Maybe Skywalker is a popular in-house name on Tattooine. How the fuck do you know? You haven't even bothered to tackle the logistical problems of a real galactic-scale census; a contrivance that you again fabricated without any indication that these scenarios are at all dangerous or likely in the films.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Stravo wrote:On the commonality of the Skywalker surname we are not talking about Skywalker from quintillions, we're talking about Skywalker from Tatooine. That's a lot more specific than a Skywalker from Kashyyk or parts unknown.

And there's millions of people on Tattooine. Maybe Skywalker is a popular in-house name on Tattooine. How the fuck do you know? You haven't even bothered to tackle the logistical problems of a real galactic-scale census; a contrivance that you again fabricated without any indication that these scenarios are at all dangerous or likely in the films.

The Jedi were able to survey the entire Republic for General Greivous in a matter of days. I'd say their ability to track people is quite impressive without knowing their method or manner.

Doesn't have to be a census - which I held up as a possibility. Could be Luke's aplication to the Imperial Academy. Could be a lot of things, tax records, property records, Owen's Will and probate records, purchase orders for moisture equipment, repair bills for a wrecked Skyhopper, school records, ect. Any possible concerns regarding name searches and records could be avoided with a simple name change.

And if the Empire doesn't carry out census how do they tax people, figure out where population growth is occurring, set up goods and services, reinforce garrisons, etc? Ancient Romans carried out census for the same reasons we do. A Galactic census would be a very basic thing that I would assume the Empire would carry out as well in some way shape or form.

Incidentally, to address Stravo's questions, there is obviously a nearly 20 year gap between the end of RotS and the beginning of ANH, so things could have (and indeed, probably did) change during that time. For example it isn't too much of a leap to guess that Owen Lars has some sort of falling out with Kenobi, since we go from the Larses welcoming the infant Luke into their home to Owen warning Luke to "stay away from that crazy old hermit" (or similar words). Owen might have told Luke his real name as part of that fight.

Srynerson wrote:Incidentally, to address Stravo's questions, there is obviously a nearly 20 year gap between the end of RotS and the beginning of ANH, so things could have (and indeed, probably did) change during that time. For example it isn't too much of a leap to guess that Owen Lars has some sort of falling out with Kenobi, since we go from the Larses welcoming the infant Luke into their home to Owen warning Luke to "stay away from that crazy old hermit" (or similar words). Owen might have told Luke his real name as part of that fight.

That's not a bad theory. Although I would suggest Owen wasn't too thrilled with Obi Wan from tha start as Beru goes out to meet him and Owen stays away and doesn't even look at him. Owen also seems to be raising Luke to be moisture farmer only and discouraging anything that could lead to a more 'adventurous' life.

Stravo wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why would Skywalker be a unique surname in a galaxy of quintillions? And Vader only felt his son because he was using the Force in the trench; Leia wouldn't be using the Force in banquets or something.

You're right. Silly me for taking Obi Wan's statement that the children must be hid from the detection of the Sith as meaning that the Sith could detect them for what they were. Thanks for clearing that up. Silly Obi Wan and GL for writing that line.

Don't be a sarcastic asshole. The fact is that Qui-Gon had a suspicion that Anakin was strong in the Force but needed a fucking blood test to confirm it, and that Vader didn't notice that there was a Force user flying around the Death Star until Luke started trying to use the Force. If no one teaches you how to do it, it's exceedingly unlikely that you will use it, particularly not to an extent which is obviously noticeable.

Stravo wrote:The Jedi were able to survey the entire Republic for General Greivous in a matter of days. I'd say their ability to track people is quite impressive without knowing their method or manner.

Grevious kind of has tens of thousands of battle droids and Lucrehulks with him. Different.

Stravo wrote:Doesn't have to be a census - which I held up as a possibility. Could be Luke's aplication to the Imperial Academy. Could be a lot of things, tax records, property records, Owen's Will and probate records, purchase orders for moisture equipment, repair bills for a wrecked Skyhopper, school records, ect. Any possible concerns regarding name searches and records could be avoided with a simple name change.

And if the Empire doesn't carry out census how do they tax people, figure out where population growth is occurring, set up goods and services, reinforce garrisons, etc? Ancient Romans carried out census for the same reasons we do. A Galactic census would be a very basic thing that I would assume the Empire would carry out as well in some way shape or form.

Well there may very well be logistical problems with that. The Galactic Empire is more like a superstate organization than an actual federated country like the U.S. anyway.

Also, for what it's worth, Greivous wasn't found by the Jedi, Palpatine sold him out. "Our Clone Intelligence units..."

Slightly different twist on this.

First of all, why take any chances by taking Luke back to Tatooine? A million worlds to hide on and the chaos of the post-war period, why not take him somewhere far away with no connections to Vader whatsoever? And yeah, change the name. Don't take any chances.

As for sticking Leia with Bail Organa- gee, he's an opposition senator with a history of getting under Palpatine's skin. Even without the threat of detection, it's easily possible that Palpatine might arrange for bad things to happen to Bail or his family in the pursuit of political maneuvers.

But then this is coming from members of a Jedi Council who hold top-level meetings in front of whoever happens to be standing around the transmitter. Cloak and dagger, or even basic security, is not their forte.

Tatooine was "outside the republic" according to TPM, but is a part of the galactic Empire. The EMpire however probably doesn't have the same sort of setup or fringe worlds like there and a guy named Skywalker could fall through the cracks much easier.

Stravo wrote:In the here and now we can set up computers to do web searches based on key phrases and the like on a daily basis. There is always the possibility that there is a search like this in place for key words like: Skywalker and Tatooine. A flag goes up somewhere meriting closer review. Considering what was at stake would you take that chance?

But remember RoTS. PAdme's body was made to look pregnant for her funeral. Everyone believed that she died and her baby(ies) died with her. So if everyone believes Padme is dead, then why bother searching for her children?

Ignoring the other fallacious assumptions that others addressed, why is the correlation between "Skywalker" and "Tatooine" supposed to be unusual?

Even without taking into account the staggering size of galactic population, is it so remote a possibility that there are actually a sizeable number of humans with the Skywalker name on Tatooine? The furthest back we can trace the name "Skywalker" is to Shmi, who lived on Tatooine.

Petrosjko wrote:As for sticking Leia with Bail Organa- gee, he's an opposition senator with a history of getting under Palpatine's skin. Even without the threat of detection, it's easily possible that Palpatine might arrange for bad things to happen to Bail or his family in the pursuit of political maneuvers.

Well actually Bail in the Novelisation tells Obi-wan and Yoda that he will be laying low for a while, and toeing the new Imperial Line, he tells them he will have to say things in the coming years that may make them doubt him, but that he needs their trust. In short Bail was a canny politician who knew it would be best to say the right things and look loyal while using whatever power and influance he had left as a Senator under Palpatine to help start the Rebelion. I think although I am not 100% sure Vader was even an occasional guest of the Organa's.

It was only a lot later perhaps as things got steadily worse that he might have been acknowledged as a risk rather than a Liberal Imperial Loyalist.

Palpatine hid from the Jedi by hiding right underneath their noses - the Jedi never suspected until the end that Palpatine was the Sith Lord, and given that he was always surrounded by the dark side and they knew that he was hungry for power, a part of it could have been that they just didn't think that the Sith Lord would be right there in what would be the most dangerous place for him to be were he found out.

And just because Palpatine used that trick, does not mean that he's immune to it being used on him. Palpatine and Vader may have simply not considered that the Jedi would hide something that they wanted hidden very well so close to them.

Tatooine is actually a pretty good choice; Vader was from Tatooine and only returned once. I doubt he had any attachments to the planet after that. Also given that it was outside of Republic territory, it was also outside the early Empires, and only latter was annexed.