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At this time, had the Senate become so impotent? Why would they willingly turn over their member worlds into a little fiefdom under what is basically a glorified king? They wanted to become his knaves? Or is it that they really didn't have a choice but to applause and holla Palpatine's name à la that Sadaam video with his party members being dragged out? Imagine a leader of a democratic nation today announcing that he was going to "reorganize" the nation into an empire and turn each state, territory, or province over to a military governor and decrease the powers of the respective representatives.

Oh, sure they would've disagreed if he'd done it all at once. That's why he did it gradually, with a war to make it seem like it was all being done in their best interests.
The war-weary member states certainly wouldn't want to separate themselves from the Republic, because that's what just happened, and look where it got everyone: it plunged the galaxy into terrible war.

Right there and then, he was their hero, marshalling the Galactic Republic against the Separatist threat and barely overcoming the treachery of the evil, power-hungry Jedi.
All they felt, there in the Senate Chamber, was pride and joy at the peace and security their new Emperor brought them.

Emperor Palpatine, galactic saviour wrote:In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society which I assure you will last for ten thousand years.

*Cyke applauds with all his might*

Palpatine was busy in the years between AOTC and ROTS. It was stated several times in ROTS that he had the courts in his pocket, suggesting that he probably loaded the benches. Though media was not shown, I'm guessing there existed some FOX News-type networks flooding the airwaves with how great the Chancellor was (Anakin struck me as a regular watcher, with the way he talked to Padme. Probably a fan of the O'Zeeblix Factor). I also imagine that war weariness is less of a factor when most of the fighting is conducted by what many doubtlessly considered to be meat droids.

Plus, the power of the Senators did not go away completely. Instead their power was gradually siphoned to the regional governors over 20-odd years, at which point they were hacked off like a gangrenous limb.

At this time, had the Senate become so impotent? Why would they willingly turn over their member worlds into a little fiefdom under what is basically a glorified king?

Call it the Julius Caesar effect (after all, the saga draws on the fall of the Roman Republic heavily), the Republic has gone from a decayed and crumbling morass to a vibrant, energetic body in a very short time.

1) Palpatine has genuinely engineered a turn around in the Republic. Like it or not, that's a huge thing right there. The OR was dying and they all knew it, even if they wouldn't admit it. Palpatine turned that around in every concievable manner: militarily, economically, and politically (in the sense of breaking endless deadlock).

2) He was a major popular hero. Do you not think that the Chancellor that won the war, even if it's one he engineered (like Caesar and Gaul), for the Republic isn't going to be beloved? People love a hero and the Senate is still people, and for that matter has to answer to them.

3) Paplatine had already collected a lot of power. You can call it a slippery-slope but then tendancy of people to solve a problem by doing what they did before only more so shows through. Since Palpatine solved these problems with so much power, why not make him the equivalent of Dictator (in the old Roman sense)?

4) And last but not least, and this is more to compare to Augustus than Julius, but a lot of it was that they simply didn't see the end coming. No doubt at the time they recieved a lot of perks and retained at least the facade of power; Palpatine then spent the next twenty years whittling away those perks till we get to ANH and the dissolution of the Senate.

Bah, you people and your rational analyses.
Can't you just appreciate the greatness that our new Emperor is bringing to our formerly strife-ridden galaxy?

CivilWarMan wrote:Anakin struck me as a regular watcher, with the way he talked to Padme.

Nah, he got regular doses of it first-hand. He used to hang out with Palpatine, since he was nine years old, remember?

Anakin: "You're starting to sound like a Seperatist."

You're not a Seperatist are you? I imagine it was that kind of thing really. People were so afraid to be seen to be opposing the Republic in any way that they went along with what had become the embodiment of it.

Stormbringer wrote:

At this time, had the Senate become so impotent? Why would they willingly turn over their member worlds into a little fiefdom under what is basically a glorified king?

Call it the Julius Caesar effect (after all, the saga draws on the fall of the Roman Republic heavily), the Republic has gone from a decayed and crumbling morass to a vibrant, energetic body in a very short time.

1) Palpatine has genuinely engineered a turn around in the Republic. Like it or not, that's a huge thing right there. The OR was dying and they all knew it, even if they wouldn't admit it. Palpatine turned that around in every concievable manner: militarily, economically, and politically (in the sense of breaking endless deadlock).

Call me a Valorum lover, i defended him time and time again
Valorums family was in power in the Republic for generations like an aristocratic family. He had to be doing someth ing right.

He only faulterd when Palpatine came into the picture. The Republics weakness shows with the Naboo crisis. This crisis was Palpatines doing. Palpatine made it seem the Republic was crumbling, it wasnt all that weak. It dealt with the Stark Hyperspace War. The only time it faulterd was when Palpatines or other Sith got involved. The Republics only weakness was that they couldnt deal with an "inside threat" . The thing is that the inside threats were mainly all caused by the Sith. The Republic was a good governing body. Palpatine was the cause of its downfall

Tychu wrote:Call me a Valorum lover, i defended him time and time again
Valorums family was in power in the Republic for generations like an aristocratic family. He had to be doing something right.

And if the Bourbons, Romanovs, and plenty of other artistocratic families have shown us anything it's that corruption can fester for a long, long time before people react. Valorum need not be a good cheif executive at all; all he needs to have done is kept the Senate happy. Given the time frame, it's probably like the Roman Senate in that all that's required is to keep the graft money flowing.

Tychu wrote:The Republic was a good governing body. Palpatine was the cause of its downfall

Patently untrue. Even as far back as the Star Wars novelization it's made clear that the Republic fell due to it's own bloated, ossified, rotting weight. It's slowly retreated from it's responsibilities and has for centuries! The Senate became, as you said, a fucking aristocratic thing. Bodies existed that could effectively hold states hostage, Corporations used and abused whole worlds if not sectors. And all of this has gone on for longer than Palpatine's plotting that's for sure.

And the Republic is a terrible governing body, even in principle, not the least of which is the complete lack of any observable checks on executive power or the Jedi's power. Add in the fact that the senators may represent nothing with more popular appeal than the local despot, there are huge problems with it. Let's not even start with the massive problems of putting religious nuts in charge of a major judicial branch.

The Republic was a lousy conceptual platform and only got worse, face it. Like the Roman Senate it so resembled, it was trouble just waiting to happen.

The Jedi were hardly "religious nuts", as their powers had basis in science, and were proven to be real. They were also a body well known for their effectiveness and nobility for over 25,000 years. And the Senate was the check on the Jedi's power. The Order was under their direct authority until the very end.

the Galactic Republic was gonna be finished anyway what Palpatine did hasten it and by ROTS the Senate had very little real power anymore (Bail Organa even says so).

The Senate and people were war weary and felt insecure.

Now Palpatine (who all the real power anyway) tells them, that the Republic would reformed in Empire that the Senate would lead and that was secure and peacefull, wouldn't you agree?

The Republic had to be pretty effective for most of its reign; a political system does not well-acclamate itself toward a particular social and economic environment for 25,000 years without some in-built efficiency.

President Sharky wrote:The Jedi were hardly "religious nuts", as their powers had basis in science, and were proven to be real.

Having a real basis and being a religion are two different things. They've added a lot of things like the no family, no kids, no relationships thing that has nothing at all to do with the force. They have a fucking Temple. Do you seriously think they are not a religious order?

President Sharky wrote:They were also a body well known for their effectiveness and nobility for over 25,000 years.

So what? The Catholic Church has a reputation for effectiveness and nobility. That doesn't mean it's entirely deserved nor does it mean that they don't have any problems. The Jedi, whatever their reputation, are clearly disfunctional, arrogant, and abusive of their power.

President Sharky wrote:And the Senate was the check on the Jedi's power. The Order was under their direct authority until the very end.

Given that the Jedi can apparently overthrow the Senate, not much of one it seems.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Republic had to be pretty effective for most of its reign; a political system does not well-acclamate itself toward a particular social and economic environment for 25,000 years without some in-built efficiency.

It probably was. But then again it doesn't seem that there is anthing like the continuity that we've previously taken for granted. It probably, had to be, more effective in latter days. However in by the time we see it, it's structured in such a manner that self-destruction was almost inevitable.

Re: some Faux News type equivalent, yes, there were propaganda outlets- Dooku and Palpatine discuss their efforts to build up Anakin Skywalker in the minds of the galaxy in the RotS novelization.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Republic had to be pretty effective for most of its reign; a political system does not well-acclamate itself toward a particular social and economic environment for 25,000 years without some in-built efficiency.

4000 years ago, the one-sector Kanz Disorders took three hundred years to solve. Survived the Old Republic has. Efficient ... it is not.

Group hypnosis. Everyone else seems to agree, I may as well go along with it.

Any truely individual people would be too scared of the OTHERS turning on them, and granting their new Emperor the chance to use his new humongous army and navy to crush them.

Heck, Palpatine could probably have just gone on that podium and openly declared that he killed the Jedi for kicks and was an evil Sith Lord, and they'd probably all still mostly lack the backbone to say anything.

"You're starting to sound like a separatist".

It's like asking why nobody stands up in Congress and publicly blasts the churches for sticking their noses in other peoples' business. Some of them may privately believe it, but the ruthless conformism in which they operate ensures that they will keep quiet about it.

Also remember Biggs' dialogue in the ANH novel about how the Empire was "glorious" when it was first formed. Clearly, The People loved the Empire.

Darth Wong wrote:
Also remember Biggs' dialogue in the ANH novel about how the Empire was "glorious" when it was first formed. Clearly, The People loved the Empire.

Shows that Palpatine was a very skilled politician as well as being a very skilled Sith. To go from democracy to dictatorship with the acclaim of the mob behind you is the mark of a skilled demagogue. Although the sheer inefficiency of the Republic, compounded by its apparently "failures" (many courtesy of Palpy) would make anyone popular who could get the trains running on time.

Does any canon information deal with how long the Republic has been governed in this manner (did the last set of "reforms" fundamentally alter the Senate in some fashion that lead to its complete paralysis? I can't imagine any organization tettering on this inefficiently for 25,000 years)

Also what they wanted was order after a very long & vicious war.
( a desire to be led is one of the most basic, if not desirable human faults).

And Palpatine did give it to them, remember at that point he wasnt showing any of his later persecutions.

Also withought the jedi around Palpatine could have been able to open a full dose of Force “whamy jamy” on them.
(think Exar kun in the TotJ comics)

And Palpatine did give it to them, remember at that point he wasnt showing any of his later persecutions.

Which we never actually see in any of the movies. Just thought I would point that out.

The degredation of the Republic appears progressively worse and worse. Gradual changes and corruption eventually probably lead to increasing war and strife, with the 5000 BBY Great Hyperspace War, the 4000 BBY Old Sith Wars, the 2000 - 1000 BBY New Sith Wars, and then the Clone War, Galactic Civil War, and Yuuzhan Vong War around 0 BBY.