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Okay the other thread got me wondering: a lot of people don't want to outright abolish the EU but do loathe parts of it (can't say I disagree either). The most popular idea was a revamped EU, which sounds great to me. So, here are my ideas (not a comprehensive list):

-- Kyp Durron goes!
-- Luke Skywalker matures into a full-blown Jedi Master on par (or exceeding) the old Order's standards -- he IS the son of the Chosen One
-- Along with the above idea, Yoda and Obi-Wan play a larger role in Luke's training after RoTJ (as opposed to gradually going away)
-- Nix the NJO, it just smacks of... gratuity.
-- I never did like the idea of how the Empire crumbled, torn apart by Civil War between Warlords with some systems staying part of the Empire, and how the Rebellion took Coruscant. It's too damned convenient for the Rebellion, I'm not sure how I'd fix it but this has to go.
-- Have some sort of oversight, don't let a hundred ship fleet be big in one book and puny in another; don't have proton torpedoes range from fighter poppers to cap killers etc. etc.
-- Dark Empire, I'd have Luke fight Palpatine, christ, not join him. Lord Vader would eventually usurp the likes of Yoda and Palpatine so why not Luke?
-- Have Luke establish a Jedi Order more quickly, one that takes a very active role in the fight against the Empire. War's may not make one great but really, how else can the Rebellion stand up to the Empire so quickly?

*Keep Thrawn

PFC Brungardt wrote:-- Kyp Durron goes!

In addition, the fetid stench of KJA's presence shall be excised with a bonfire and voodoo curse rituals. He must pay.

-- Luke Skywalker matures into a full-blown Jedi Master on par (or exceeding) the old Order's standards -- he IS the son of the Chosen One

Which happens anyway.

-- Along with the above idea, Yoda and Obi-Wan play a larger role in Luke's training after RoTJ (as opposed to gradually going away)

I disagree. It isn't necessary, and speaks of ignoring the canon - the old Jedi teaching failed, remember? Yoda and Obi-wan provided Luke with the basics. Yoda himself assured him "No more training do you require; already know that which you need." Emphasis on the word 'need'. Luke is meant to learn new things, not relearn the old. "You must unlearn that which you know."

Yoda and Ben cannot teach Luke anything more.

-- Nix the NJO, it just smacks of... gratuity.

Confusing, since Luke's and Leia's destiny is to institute a NJO.

-- I never did like the idea of how the Empire crumbled, torn apart by Civil War between Warlords with some systems staying part of the Empire, and how the Rebellion took Coruscant. It's too damned convenient for the Rebellion, I'm not sure how I'd fix it but this has to go.

No it doesn't, it actually makes a great deal of sense.

-- Have some sort of oversight, don't let a hundred ship fleet be big in one book and puny in another; don't have proton torpedoes range from fighter poppers to cap killers etc. etc.

Agreed.

-- Dark Empire, I'd have Luke fight Palpatine, christ, not join him. Lord Vader would eventually usurp the likes of Yoda and Palpatine so why not Luke?

Oh Luke could have slaughtered Palpatine, but he wouldn't have been able to escape the battalion waiting in the next room. A bit of an exaggeration, but there you go. In any case, Luke was fakin', so what's the big deal?

-- Have Luke establish a Jedi Order more quickly, one that takes a very active role in the fight against the Empire. War's may not make one great but really, how else can the Rebellion stand up to the Empire so quickly?

But above, you said "nix the NJO" - I'm confused.

About the one thing that continually annoyed me about the EU was how all the writers made Leia this wandering diplomat - forgetting that she was a Senator, not a diplomat, and that she has her destiny to fulfill as one of the new Jedi.

When he said "nix the NJO" I think he meant "nix the nausatingly stupid Yuuzhan Vong plotline"

Stofsk wrote:

PFC Brungardt wrote:-- Kyp Durron goes!

In addition, the fetid stench of KJA's presence shall be excised with a bonfire and voodoo curse rituals. He must pay.

I'ld also like him to stop writting. And he better not ever write in Stargate-verse.

The crap that issues forth from his writting is bad. Even his original works are horrible.

Thow in Qui-Gon´s ghost/voice somewhere, if Luke can commune with the spirit of his father, Yoda and Obi-Wan, he can take time out to get aquainted with Qui-Gon, one of the few Jedi who actually got it right!

And the whole "Jedi spirits disappear after a few years"-thing is ridiculous. Obi-Wan said "Yoda will always be with you" in ROTJ. That doesn´t translate to "Yoda will be with you for a couple of years and then get bored and leave forever". Sorry, that´s just dumb and inconsequential.

VT-16 wrote:Thow in Qui-Gon´s ghost/voice somewhere, if Luke can commune with the spirit of his father, Yoda and Obi-Wan, he can take time out to get aquainted with Qui-Gon, one of the few Jedi who actually got it right!

Good point. I'd like to see how Luke talks with Qui-Gon. But then, there's probably room in the post-ROTJ EU still for something like that, so don't give up all hope. Unlike most of the other ideas, this one could still happen.

Actually bad-ass EU character's like Kyle Katarn, KOTOR villians, Thrawn.

If they want the Yuuzhan vong then do them just for the love of the force get rid of Bors'sk Feyla and the entire goverment of the NR & enough of the fighting jedi one on one wanking,
Jedi are supposed to be bad ass, Clone Wars cartoon level, not empire 5 thug's and im screwed pussies.

the .303 bookworm wrote:Actually bad-ass EU character's like Kyle Katarn, KOTOR villians, Thrawn.

If they want the Yuuzhan vong then do them just for the love of the force get rid of Bors'sk Feyla and the entire goverment of the NR

So you want no NR and complete anarchy. That'd work.

Crazedwraith wrote:So you want no NR and complete anarchy. That'd work.

I think he wants a working government fighting an enemy that's truly worthy of taking on a galaxy. And if you ask me, no Zenoma Sekot bullshit. Gloss over the extermination of the Vong if you have to, like the Endor Holocaust or what they did to the Yevethans (A'baht mentioned at the end of Tyrant's Test about them ensuring those Yevethans would never build a starship again). But don't make up Zenoma Sekot BS.

Zonama Zekot could have been interesting as a Jedi version of Korriban or the sith temples on Yavin.
Now that would have been a good site for the new Jedi temple, also they shouldnt have made it's effects so obvious (smash, this, force project that...).

I think he wants a working government fighting an enemy that's truly worthy of taking on a galaxy.

Precisely.

-- I never did like the idea of how the Empire crumbled, torn apart by Civil War between Warlords with some systems staying part of the Empire, and how the Rebellion took Coruscant. It's too damned convenient for the Rebellion, I'm not sure how I'd fix it but this has to go.

It does work that way. You have the empire, which had hundreds of thousands of warships, vs the very small Republic.

The only way for the Republic to survive is to make sure that they are not perceived as a threat. So the Republic diplomats talk to the Imperial warlords, offer to buy various annoying systems from them. Annoying systems are ones where the population is rioting/ annoyed/ sick/ weak/ attacked by pirates, and they give the Imperial warlord resources in return. The warlord benefits as he gets materials to fight for power, and the Republic gets a few more systems.

The Republic projects the idea that it is trying to help the common people, while the Imperial warlords are fighting over the scraps of power. That gives the Republic emotional capital with the people they take control. Thisis done through underground channels, smugglers, etc. Several of the books might end with the Republic team not managing to accomplish their primary mission, but the stories they tell to the people who help them eventually cause the world to fall within a few months.

They have to be careful with their capabilities though, as if all the warlords got together, they would squash the new Republic like a bug. The NR essentially becomes a dumping ground for useless sectors, as the warlords vie for power. All those sectors dumped though, work together, and manage to bring the NR to power.

That would be a nice way to show the NR being formed. They take the lost, the homeless, the poor, and help them out.

Eventually, the Imperial warlords start adding up how many systems they have sold to the Republic, and realize that they have been had. Thus the Imperial Remnant is formed, by admirals who view the NR as more of a threat than each other. They cannot agree on everything, so have to form a council, but they agree that they are the Empire.

If you bring in the Vong, or similar, their agents are going around, initially trying to keep the wars fighting, to use up ships and resources on both sides. The Imperials use up ships & resources, fighting their battles. The Republic use up their resources, paying for the systems, and restoring them.

Later, the Vong agents stir up all the old feuds, that the Empire was keeping a lid on, and the initial euphoria has worn off. This divides and weakens the NR, and the ships trying to keep the peace are not protecting against pirates, setting them loose as well. So the jedi are hopping all over the place, putting out fires, and trying to find a few hours to train.

This puts the Jedi on edge, without a lot of experience. When the invasion comes, the jedi are not that well trained, and the experienced people are often in the wrong place. The fleets are tied down all over the galaxy, unable to mass for a strike. The Imperial Remnant i too busy squabbling to agree on a decision, and pirates will take advantage of any fleet movements.

As for the enemy, the basic idea behind the biology could work, just use technology instead. The singularities are used to strip enemy shields, then weapons pound the bare hulls. Give them high numbers, a different stealth technology (so they look like bare rock), and that would be a good way to introduce the shadow threat.

The first few books might even have the Jedi fighting the invaders, and pushed back. However, they would only think that it was a nasty pirate or rebelling system, not a full invasion fleet.

Eventually, they manage to clear out one planet, and start to examine the technology. They realize that it is modular, and recently installed. That would give the first few clues that something major is going on.

To handle Force users, a Force jammer/intoxicator is used. Essentially, the Force user (light and dark) is having a tougher time concentrating, making close range combat tougher.

The Vong style religion could stay, they just use technology this time. Maybe a large berserker fleet?

Just my thoughts.

What would I fix in the Post-ROTJ?

Aside from eliminating some badly written works that have zero bearing on character development and plot (namely the Crystal Star) the only major changes I would make would be to have Kyp die. Oh, and I would condense the DE storyline so Palpatine only comes back once.

As for the rest, it may not be prefect, but I'm fine with it overall, even NJO.

The biggest thing is I'd have the path to a NJO be logical: we have Leia taken as Luke's first apprentice, taking more as he finds more gifted individuals. Leia should not become the head honcho politician, but serve in a diplomat role for Mon Mothma within her capacity as a Jedi Knight.

-- Along with the above idea, Yoda and Obi-Wan play a larger role in Luke's training after RoTJ (as opposed to gradually going away)

I disagree. It isn't necessary, and speaks of ignoring the canon - the old Jedi teaching failed, remember? Yoda and Obi-wan provided Luke with the basics. Yoda himself assured him "No more training do you require; already know that which you need." Emphasis on the word 'need'. Luke is meant to learn new things, not relearn the old. "You must unlearn that which you know."

Yoda and Ben cannot teach Luke anything more.

Good point although if this is the case why does Luke's new Jedi Order use information from holocrons to supplement training?

-- Nix the NJO, it just smacks of... gratuity.

Confusing, since Luke's and Leia's destiny is to institute a NJO.

I mean the series of books, the New Jedi Order, with the Vong. Hack it.

In the post-script to the final NJO novel, Lando Calrissian steps out of the Holographic Fun-World booth, and goes "whew, it was so real, I'm glad none of that actually happened!"

*special thanks to B&B for the idea


Alternately:

Lando finally comes to in front of the Ewok bonfire, handing the pipe back to Chief Chirpa. "Damn furry dude, that's some fine weed you got there man! I gotta tell Chewie about this crazy shit I just dreamed!"

The implosion of the Empire should be slow and agonizing, and the backdrop for the entire EU. Basically, the EU should be the parallel stories of the rise of the Second Republic and the creation of the Second Jedi Order.

RedImperator wrote:The implosion of the Empire should be slow and agonizing, and the backdrop for the entire EU. Basically, the EU should be the parallel stories of the rise of the Second Republic and the creation of the Second Jedi Order.

There not already? Really, thats what most of thew books are about, either Luke's rebuilding of the Jedi Order, or the NR's struggle to maintain cntrol and achieve peace.

Kurgan wrote:*special thanks to B&B for the idea

You're shitting me. They reset Enterprise?

I'd just say "Screw it" and move on. If I had the say, I'd start some REALLY new Star Wars stories... set it, say, fifty years, or even a century, after the NJO. Don't even mention any of the shit that happened. No recurring characters, none of that bullshit. Start things fresh. Start things with some pretty intense galactic politics. Various nationstates and hegemonies, all in a tense sort of balance.

It's a shame that one of the most unique Jedi storylines happened to be one of the worst... the "White Current" shit from TBFC was terribly and ludicrously written, but I've been fascinated with the idea of various sects stemming off from the Jedi. There'd be the central, Republic-sponsored Jedi order, but each individual state would likely have its own, too. This would be an excellent setting for some more complex relationships between disseparate Force users... instead of the simple, good/evil Jedi/Sith setup.

Basically, I think there have been too many stories set in the same general span of time. Way too many.

YT300000 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:*special thanks to B&B for the idea

You're shitting me. They reset Enterprise?

I wish. No, they talked about resetting TOS IIRC, and others suggested this too, but it hasn't actually happened. That "These are the Voyages" would reset the entire Enterprise series was wishful thinking on our part based on early rumors.

Rather the whole "it was all in the holodeck" is an idea that they've used before that was appropriate for this I thought. The last episode of Enterprise is the only "it was only a dream" episode, but supposedly based on "real history" that they had in TNG of that era. The "Big Reset Button" is something that B&B became (in)famous for.