StarDestroyer.Net BBS

As I understand it, Master Sifo Dias goes to Kamino and orders the Clone Army (with what money I have no idea) based on a vision he had of the Jedi being in danger. He confides in Count Dooku who takes it from there after killing Dias. If I have the chain of events wrong please correct me.

In any event, it is fairly obvious that the Clones were not part of Palpatine's original plan and he adapts it on the fly to adapt to their introduction (rather brillinatly I might add)

But it does beg the question, without the Clones what was Palpatine's original plan? Was he going to let the Separtists Win? Use the droid armies to over whelm the Jedi and then deactivated them as he did in ROTS?

And out of curiosity what was his original plan with the Siege and Invasion of Naboo. One gets the impression that Obi Wan, Qui Gon and Anakin put a monkey wrench in his master plan on Naboo.

Any EU sources or guesses as to how Palpatine's plan evolved to deal with these setbacks?

Bah, damn EU. Dooku should have been the phsuedo Syfo, that's how it sounded and seemed to be intended in the movie.

Any way, it's possible that Palpatine was going to use droids like the CIS. We don't know if Geonosia was recruited extremely early in the Confederacy, it's possible that Palpy was going to use the Geo's for his army. Or perhaps some other company/retailer.

When he discovered the Clones, he thought "shit yeah, that's even better!" He actually took the time to say 'shit'. The clones gave him a contrast to the droid armies but still kept a 'control' on that same army to further his win/win plans against the jedi.

In the novel, Palpy muses his plan. The clone war was more to slowly bleed the Jedi more so than Palpy's political power play. The Clone Wars were his 'Jedi trap'. He muses that even if the Jedi and Clone troops won the war, many Jedi would have still been killed. And since the Jedi fought the war with the Clones, their spidey sense wasn't triggered about the Clones and their order 66.

A win/win for the Sith.

Stravo wrote:As I understand it, Master Sifo Dias goes to Kamino and orders the Clone Army (with what money I have no idea) based on a vision he had of the Jedi being in danger. He confides in Count Dooku who takes it from there after killing Dias. If I have the chain of events wrong please correct me.

In AOTC Obi Wan said that he thought Sifo Dias died before placing the order.
I was convinced that Count Dooku placed the order pretending to be Sifo Dias (the Kaminoeans don't seem to perform any ID check on Jedi).
So, the Clones were part of Palpatine's plan.

Stravo wrote: In any event, it is fairly obvious that the Clones were not part of Palpatine's original plan and he adapts it on the fly to adapt to their introduction (rather brillinatly I might add)

Where does General Order 66 come from, then?

Stravo wrote: But it does beg the question, without the Clones what was Palpatine's original plan? Was he going to let the Separtists Win? Use the droid armies to over whelm the Jedi and then deactivated them as he did in ROTS?

And out of curiosity what was his original plan with the Siege and Invasion of Naboo. One gets the impression that Obi Wan, Qui Gon and Anakin put a monkey wrench in his master plan on Naboo.

He convinced Amidala to propose a vote of non-confidence in Valorum, with the consequence that Palpatine became Supreme Chancellor.

Knife wrote:Bah, damn EU. Dooku should have been the pseudo Syfo, that's how it sounded and seemed to be intended in the movie.

You mean it was not?

Alright, my previous post can be disregarded.

Il Saggiatore wrote: Where does General Order 66 come from, then?

Just because he didn't plan on the Clones doesn't mean he can't capitalize on them. If his original idea was Droids, then GO66 would have already been in place in them, and it would be a simple change of soldiers for the plan.

Il Saggiatore wrote: He convinced Amidala to propose a vote of non-confidence in Valorum, with the consequence that Palpatine became Supreme Chancellor.

Actually, wasn't Sidious' original, original plan (I remember reading conjecture about this somewhere, perhaps "Episode I Revelations" on this site) to use Amidala's capture by the Trade Federation as a boost to show the uselessness of Valorum's administration? Perhaps even her death at their hands to show it even more sharp relief?

I believe he planned for her not to escape, and afterwards worked her into the plan by having her give the call for Valorum's removal.

He was probably going to make a call of no confidence himself using her death as leverage.

it all fits so nicely

I think it would have gone this way:

The TF invades Naboo and kills Amidala. Palpatine uses this to become SupremeChancellor and attacks the TF to free Naboo. What follows is a long, bloody war where the Jedi are killed and Palpatine creates one emergency-law after the other slowly transforming the Republic into his empire.

After ten years or so almost all Jedi are dead and Palpatine has a large military loyal to him (more or less). Using the most fanatical soldiers or even some of the droid-army he gets rid of the remaining Jedi, while at the same time an assassination-attempt involving a huge bomd kills most of the Senators. He can blame that on the TF or the Jedi trying to take over the Republic and declares himself dictator/emperor until a new Senate is elected, what of course never happens.

For this version he doesn't even need an aristocrat like Dooku, but can keep the brawler Darth Maul.

Just a quick note: the actual Sifo Dias placing the order for the Clones is more than "that damn EU" because it was written based on comments by Lucas himself.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Just a quick note: the actual Sifo Dias placing the order for the Clones is more than "that damn EU" because it was written based on comments by Lucas himself.

*shrug* not how it came across in the movie though. Writters intent and all, but if it was his intent, he failed miserable.

Palpy didnt want Amidala to get out. He sent Maul after her after all.

Bah, damn EU. Dooku should have been the phsuedo Syfo, that's how it sounded and seemed to be intended in the movie.

As has been mentioned already, James luceno has said that the Sifo-Dyas backstory in Labyrinth of Evil came "straight from Lucas". So it's not "Damn EU" it's "Damn George Lucas"

There is one more thing.
In AOTC Jango Fett tells Obi Wan that was hired by a Darth Tyranus (i.e., Count Dooku, as far as I understand) to be the template for the clones.
How does this fit with the real Sifo Dyas commissiong the Clone army?

According to LoE Sifo-Dyas ordered the army, Sidious found out and tasked Dooku to kill his friend. Then Dooku went out to hire the template for the clone-army and Jango Fett settled down on Kamino.

Palpatine probably planned to raise up a conscript army and drag out the war longer. As for Order 66, he could have waited until the war was over and all the Jedi came back to the Temple to spring an ambush, and of course a longer war means more Jedi attrition. The clones simply expediated his plans.